Paladin Tier 2 is a problem..

[Deleted]

He said Shadowstep and Prep. Gouge sap blind was not even said in his post.
And no, they are not being removed.

Yeah i know what he said, i also tried to point out a Rogue has more cc/stuns baseline.Where as Ret, does not in this new talent spec.

[Jonuts]

You do realise you're complaining about something that's in not finalized in an expansion that isn't even in beta yet?

I've had it with you fuckwits. Not in beta yet? Who cares? That means right now, valid complaints are MORE LIKELY TO BE ACTED UPON. It's like pouring concrete. You about to pour it in the wrong place? Better someone says it BEFORE your pour it. Your poured it, but the top isn't very smooth? I'd suggest smoothing it BEFORE it hardens.

That is all that complaints and criticisms are right now. You don't wait until the job is completely finished before you tell them they're doing it wrong. If you wait until that late, it's because you're fucking retarded.

I swear, how fucking stupid are you people? Every thread is full of the same bullshit. Someone throws a criticism (justified or not) and instead of discussing whether or not the criticism is justified, you people crawl all up his ass for *DARING* to give criticism, telling him that now isn't the time to give criticism. Yea, it's subject to change. That's the entire fucking point of giving criticism. Because it *IS* subject to change. I'm taking a short a vacation from you fuckwits before I post more and a mod says "He needs a permanent vacation".

[zcks]

Its already a day old (not even) and people are cursing and swearing around . just wat a WHOLE year maybe longer ... things will change ..

People said the same thing during cataclysm alpha & beta when paladin players pointed out that ret's burst was way to high, it made it to live because blizzard thought it was fine due to not paying attention.

Then again the same thing happened in wrath beta during the final stages when they decided to use to last 2 weeks to actually overhaul paladins & create holy power. People said this stuff is complete shit but blizzard just smiled & said oh we think its fine.

Point is blizzard management has shown vary little intrust in listening to paladins in the past & when they finally do because of mass threats to quit they do half assed band aid fixes so it would hardly be a surprise if they do so again.

[Gavll]

Aww, I thought this was about the Judgement set and how awesome it is!

[zcks]

You do realise you're complaining about something that's in not finalized in an expansion that isn't even in beta yet? Seriously. You have no idea what other changes they'll make to make paladin's ok, but I tell you the fuck what. Blizzard aren't stupid.

No they aren't stupid, they just tend to be lazy & uninterested in doing honest hard work where paladins (especially ret) are concerned.

Because of this it's best to complain in mass the second people as a community see something that is bad instead of waiting thinking oh its early because the longer you wait the less chance they will regulate any time to change it.

---------- Post added 2011-10-22 at 09:44 PM ----------

Lets be honest, you dont need the cc, you would much rather have the slow. Imagine how good you will be, freedom into a slow you would have a crazy ammount of uptime.

Assuming the enemy does not have a mage, shaman, priest or hunter with a brain cell telling them to spam offensive dispels then ya. But what are the chances of that happening at anything above 2k ratings.



PS, Jonuts You need to calm down man. Your completely right but don't let the anger get to you like that, its bad for your health.

If you were nearby I would let ya have a toke off my vaporizer bong to help ya calm down.

[Valort]

Worrying about talents before a game's expansion is even on alpha...

You sir are opening your umbrella REALLY early. I mean, you're opening it in the Moon.

[fireblade]

Worrying about talents before a game's expansion is even on alpha...

You sir are opening your umbrella REALLY early. I mean, you're opening it in the Moon.

So what do you want us to do? Not speak about the proposed changes at all? What's your point? Plenty of the pre alpha Cataclysm announcements are still in game at patch 4.2. If you don't have something to add just stay quiet.

[Shanto94]

People, people people people... the POINT of the talent trees is to give you a hard time choosing what1 you are going to take, so there isnt an obvious choice.
Really, this helps a LOT to that in PvP. You can try to sacrifice uptime and be able to cc, you can get a really strong stun but not be able to sit too much on them, and you may have high uptime but no kind stun or CC.
Now, make your choice, because now its a talent tree, and not a "Route of must have"

[Deleted]

Indeed people should stop complaining about it being in alpha blaablah. If we just stay quiet blizz wont notice the bad changes.

And on topic. Seeing as the name of the stun isn't hammer of justice I could see hammer being in the retribution tree, allowing retri going for a double stun, stun/sleep or stun/snare. That would be quite reasonable. Also then for holy you would get the stun from talents since you probably would not need the snare.

[venus]

"Repentance 1.5s cast"

NOPE. Not for Ret or Prot anyway.

[Guyviroth]

I think what's funny is that people are complaining and are going about it due to three factors;

1) Bitching on a fan forum and not the official forums won't get your voiced heard.
2) No one knows what spells will be baseline, added, taken or changed from each class. You may find that Paladins may have more movement utility, or even a separate CC. Doubtful but still.
3) You're "criticising" talent changed that have not even been tested in real gameplay yet. How exactly does one critic something that not even the devs have tried testing in-game yet?

[Huntaer]

let me make u something clear
NONE OF WHAT U SAW AT BLIZZCON IS SET IN STONE. NOTHING IS FINAL AND THINGS CAN AND WILL CHANGE BEFORE THE RELEASE.

Thank you.

[Deleted]

Here I came thinking we were going to have a discussion about the Judgement set :S

[MisterMM]

From where I see, just like in D3, it's supposed to be a hard choice. You pick what you like the best, and of course they're not going to give you everything, that would be no fun. And it's not like it's hard to go and respec for a cheap price, and try out something else. Each is for a different purpose or scenario. And with the choices being so hard, it's less likely people will follow some guide, and will start to pick with personal preference instead, which is Blizz's goal.

[Trigg]

Yea.. we do...

You either play a melee class with no snare (not even soj in it's current form) vs playing a class with no CC's AT ALL..

Fuck that..

Warriors want a word with you. We don't have any CC, at least any viable ones. So we have stuns, that's only for tanking really.

[Blackspur]

Well some choices are from our current knowledge about as retarded as it gets. Rogue got likewise a hit with Shadowstep and Premedition beeing on same tier.

From the whole package only good thing was monk class and pokemon. Pandaren race is cute but i could live without it, since they can be both alliance and horde it will only make pvp more complicated

Honestly, if you are relying on the silhouettes of characters in PvP to determine if they are an enemy or not, you are doing it wrong. As Tom Chilton said yesterday, its the UI that indicates if its and enemy and very, very few people determine by race.

[Razorice]

Funny how people QQ when the changes aren't even final yet...

[Deleted]

uhm... i don't know how do we realy need any of them to be viable... i don't use HoJ in pve, and my repentance always gets overlooked and someone double-ccs it anyway

[Joodoc]

I've had it with you fuckwits. Not in beta yet? Who cares? That means right now, valid complaints are MORE LIKELY TO BE ACTED UPON. It's like pouring concrete. You about to pour it in the wrong place? Better someone says it BEFORE your pour it. Your poured it, but the top isn't very smooth? I'd suggest smoothing it BEFORE it hardens.

That is all that complaints and criticisms are right now. You don't wait until the job is completely finished before you tell them they're doing it wrong. If you wait until that late, it's because you're fucking retarded.

I swear, how fucking stupid are you people? Every thread is full of the same bullshit. Someone throws a criticism (justified or not) and instead of discussing whether or not the criticism is justified, you people crawl all up his ass for *DARING* to give criticism, telling him that now isn't the time to give criticism. Yea, it's subject to change. That's the entire fucking point of giving criticism. Because it *IS* subject to change. I'm taking a short a vacation from you fuckwits before I post more and a mod says "He needs a permanent vacation".

beta is for criticism, when they can see how classes relate to one another, alpha for major things, preview, no. because all taht happens in preview is people try to picture what it will be like and inevitably assumes their class is over nerfed

[Malleus]

People, people people people... the POINT of the talent trees is to give you a hard time choosing what1 you are going to take, so there isnt an obvious choice.
Really, this helps a LOT to that in PvP. You can try to sacrifice uptime and be able to cc, you can get a really strong stun but not be able to sit too much on them, and you may have high uptime but no kind stun or CC.
Now, make your choice

The issue is not that there is a choice to be made between having a stun, a CC and a snare. The issue is that in the Blizzcon layouts, no other melee class has to compromise. Warriors have a snare in Tier 1 and a stun in Tier 3. DKs have a CC in Tier 3 and a snare in Tier 6 that becomes a stun if you can't disengage. Feral Druids have snares in Tiers 3 and 4, Shamans have snares in Tier 1, and I've not heard that Bash and Hex are being removed. And of course, Rogues don't need to talent at all to get their CC options.

Forcing players to make choices is not unfair. Forcing players of a single class only to make that choice while everyone else gets everything they can have is not just unfair, it's broken.