Holy Radiance

[Deleted]

This is not a nerf, we've been buffed.

I was referring to the 5% base mana increase nerf with the current HR on the PTR not LIVE servers.

[Deleted]

The current holy radiance completely serves it's purpose. People are critcizing the "fire and forget mechanic" but they're forgetting something important- We're tank healers, it's excellent to fire and forget an AOE heal. AFter the patch we have to make a decision to either heal the tank or the raid and I bet the raid won't take the priority.

[Malthanis]

The current holy radiance completely serves it's purpose. People are critcizing the "fire and forget mechanic" but they're forgetting something important- We're tank healers, it's excellent to fire and forget an AOE heal. AFter the patch we have to make a decision to either heal the tank or the raid and I bet the raid won't take the priority.

Yes, the Holy paladin niche is tank healing. That doesn't mean that our AoE healing toolkit needs to be completely inadequate. The new HR allows an actual choice in raid-healing, which was the entire point of the redesign of the spell.

[dragconus]

Well as of now on the live server, Holy Radiance is 40% of base mana and if you have the secondary haste cap can heal upto roughly 16k on a single target with 14 ticks of the thing

So technically its a decrease of the mana cost by 5% instead of 10% and if you where to compare durations the spell is actually being buffed

Over the same duration of 10 seconds, the new Holy radiance can heal upto 36k on a single target

Those numbers are rough estimates off what ive seen on the PTR ^^

EDIT: They also do not include critical strikes, just base healing with full 378 pre-made gear

Ok...so what your really saying here is for 105% base mana you can do 20k more healing then what we already have at 40% base mana not to mention in that time we can now cast a divine light at the same time and easily drop a 40k heal on top of it...to a single target anyway...right?...soo....105% base mana verse 85%..i think it is . (3 HR's at 35% = 105% total)PTR (1 HR at 40% 1 DL at 45% = 85%)Live....thats if DL isn't 40% which i think it is.Of coarse these numbers are also..just ruff estimates.


so what i'm really trying to say is...it's not a buff...it's not really a nerf...it's a new spell, new design, it shouldn't even be called HR imo. Please quit argueing it's a buff or it's a nerf..it's neither.

Also so i don't have to type another of these... prot pali's and ret pali's both have spells holy pali's don't. a holy pali isn't going to stop and dps for big numbers because we just don't have the spells ret pali's do...and we aren't gonna pop holy shield to block and keep alive because we don't have it...if this spell has become less accessable to those classes like any other heal we have then so be it...and if you want to survive longer ..use those holy power points thats about to be a WHOLE lot easier for you to obtain and drop it on a word of glory....you guy's have spells that we can't or shouldn't use too so why should those spec's be any more privledged then holy

[Nillo]

Yes, the Holy paladin niche is tank healing.

Am I the only one who always wondered why people say paladins are supposed to be tank healers?
IMO the only spec that is purely a tank healer would be the disc priest, because most of their skills work best if they always heal 1 target.
A paladin may be the best supporting tank healer with beacon (and ToR if you need big heals), but I really don't get what is supposed to make a paladin a pure tank healer.

[Tatsu]

Am I the only one who always wondered why people say paladins are supposed to be tank healers?
IMO the only spec that is purely a tank healer would be the disc priest, because most of their skills work best if they always heal 1 target.
A paladin may be the best supporting tank healer with beacon (and ToR if you need big heals), but I really don't get what is supposed to make a paladin a pure tank healer.

Still in the WOtLK model when that is all we could do?

[Malthanis]

Am I the only one who always wondered why people say paladins are supposed to be tank healers?
IMO the only spec that is purely a tank healer would be the disc priest, because most of their skills work best if they always heal 1 target.
A paladin may be the best supporting tank healer with beacon (and ToR if you need big heals), but I really don't get what is supposed to make a paladin a pure tank healer.

I've wondered the same thing. Sure, a paladin's toolkit is basically "that guy, right there, he's not going to die" in a nutshell, but I've never really seen a time when a paladin couldn't be more than that.

[Deleted]

Yes, the Holy paladin niche is tank healing. That doesn't mean that our AoE healing toolkit needs to be completely inadequate. The new HR allows an actual choice in raid-healing, which was the entire point of the redesign of the spell.

If it's so great, doesn't it make using light of dawn obsolete again? (being near obsolete already). It's a great thing to have such a 31 point talent. [/sarcasm]

[Malthanis]

If it's so great, doesn't it make using light of dawn obsolete again? (being near obsolete already). It's a great thing to have such a 31 point talent. [/sarcasm]

No, because you can use HR to build HP (through the Tower of Radiance talent) then fire off Light of Dawn (which increases AoE mana efficiency).

[Kelesti]

The amount of healing that a Retribution or Protection Paladin's healing through Holy Radiance is pitiful. It really is. I mean, your melee crew increases its survivability by moving to stand in the green circle of Effloresence (resto druid talent) underneath you than pushing that GCD. It's pitiful healing over a long duration, and what do people do to stay alive when it's on cooldown?

What does a Holy Paladin do to "raid heal" when it's on cooldown? Light of Dawn! Oh wait, you can only do that once until you have more holy power.

This change does two things: One, it gives Holy an actual toolkit so that if you have say two holy paladins in a 10 man (your regular second healer couldn't make it) you aren't set up to fail. It lets a healing Paladin actually move away from the tank, which is significant (now all they need to do is buff Light of Dawn a little more, but remove the Beacon transfer, and everything will be gravy).

Two, it eliminates an ability they'll try to balance Ret around in 5.0; I don't know about you, but being balanced around crap damage unless all cooldowns are up, and justifying it because "Oh you can 60k WoG on someone" is garbage; I can't wait for Paladins to be able to move away from that model.

[dragconus]

Am I the only one who always wondered why people say paladins are supposed to be tank healers?
IMO the only spec that is purely a tank healer would be the disc priest, because most of their skills work best if they always heal 1 target.
A paladin may be the best supporting tank healer with beacon (and ToR if you need big heals), but I really don't get what is supposed to make a paladin a pure tank healer.

idk bout everyone else....but when someone tells me "just heal this one person" i heal the whole raid anyway...because "raid healers" don't have that burst heal we do and in Cata when the dps die so does the raid , most of the time.

[deviancee]

This nerf wasnt enough :P expect atleast 10% more increase


edit: or nerf judge thing to 5/10/15%

[Aliessil]

For those on the PTR, I've got a quick question - at the moment, the talent Speed of Light gives a movement boost on casting Divine Protection or Holy Radiance. Now that HR is being changed, what's taking it's place in the talent?

I use that talent all the time in PvP, and find it pretty handy in PvE sometimes too ... movement boost + ticking AOE HOT is rather nice, so I'll be sorry to see it go :-(

Ta.

[Kelesti]

This nerf wasnt enough :P expect atleast 10% more increase


edit: or nerf judge thing to 5/10/15%

Judgement's mana return is basically Holy Priest's mana return, except with a cost. If anything, I'd expect either Judgement to be made free (at least to Holy Paladins) or Divine Plea to be nerfed to work off Base Mana, as another step to getting all healers to run Spirit as "the regen stat" (I feel Rapture and Revitalize should be geared the same way, spirit based instead of Intellect).

---------- Post added 2011-11-02 at 06:26 PM ----------

For those on the PTR, I've got a quick question - at the moment, the talent Speed of Light gives a movement boost on casting Divine Protection or Holy Radiance. Now that HR is being changed, what's taking it's place in the talent?

Divine Protection is getting its cooldown reduced. Doesn't completely take its place, but hey it's better than nothing.

And HR being an actual functional tool more than pretending to be a HoT of significance.

[dragconus]

This nerf wasnt enough :P expect atleast 10% more increase


edit: or nerf judge thing to 5/10/15%

you must be a priest...get off the paladin forum haha :P

---------- Post added 2011-11-02 at 08:51 PM ----------

Judgement's mana return is basically Holy Priest's mana return, except with a cost. If anything, I'd expect either Judgement to be made free (at least to Holy Paladins) or Divine Plea to be nerfed to work off Base Mana, as another step to getting all healers to run Spirit as "the regen stat" [size=1](I feel Rapture and Revitalize should be geared the same way, spirit based instead of Intellect)

if divine plea was nerfed in a way to work off of base mana it would be useless. just saving the gcd would be better. BiS atm for pali's are trinks that reduce overall cost of spells rather then mana regen. This new move would make spirit trinks more viable to us and is a huge plus imo. I'd say with divine plea and judgement still having a cost it won't need changed.Rather we may have to change our way of gearing. Intel no matter what they do to it will always be the main focus for healers ,even if it didn't provide crit like it does for us. The real trick will be something i'm currently working toward which is taking my focus of haste a bit and making spirit my premier secondary stat...with haste following.It would be far easier for blizz to balance to just make our current spells cost more..as they just did with HR

[Shelly]

So you think HR should stay the same because rets want to use it once every 60 sec? That's seriously your reasoning? Well I think that TV should scale from spell power instead of attack power so that I can dps during Alys ground phase.

Well everyone, looks like ret and prot are doomed now. They're losing their 1 minute healing spell that heals people for 450 for 10 seconds. Games over. Lets pack it up and go home. I mean, holy is getting a heal that could potentially heal 100k+ in under 3 seconds, but who cares if they can't heal themselves for 5-6k every 60 seconds right?

1. You SHOULD be dpsing during the Alys ground phase.

2. If you've got TV as a Holy paladin congrats on breaking the game?

3. Sure, go ahead, you can have TV as long as I can have Holy Shock added to my toolkit.

Anyway Captain Hyperbole, my point wasn't that Ret and Prot are doomed, but it is a definite nerf to their survivability. Also if you were unaware HR - especially with wings and a decent amount of haste and in the case of Prot stacks of vengeance - can be a very powerful heal. Roughly equal to 10 to 15% or more of the health of the paladin casting it.

And the Holy Shock thing does raise a very good point about ret survivability, which is pretty much when they changed art of war (or was it crusade?) to be only free exorcisms rather than free flashes of light it really took the wind out of the sails of paladin self-healing.

[Deleted]

I'll miss using it after all the BH AoE fests

[Deleted]

Indeed. How dare they remove a healing ability from Prot and Ret in order to make it easier to balance them more towards their respective roles of tanking and damage dealing?

How dare they removing a miniscule help to survivability in PVP to even it out for PVE so retri and prots have LESS buttons to press and gets less viable in order of utility....

Its not like its advanced math tbh...still stoopid of Blizz not to consider doing the same things for Shamans, Priests, Druids.

Its not a ret/prot issue tbh, but ret/prot uses it as survivability tool that gives an small edge which they now have to buff up. Remove the aoe healing from all dps specs instead.

Then start balancing it out....

---------- Post added 2011-11-03 at 11:47 PM ----------

Am I the only one who always wondered why people say paladins are supposed to be tank healers?
IMO the only spec that is purely a tank healer would be the disc priest, because most of their skills work best if they always heal 1 target.
A paladin may be the best supporting tank healer with beacon (and ToR if you need big heals), but I really don't get what is supposed to make a paladin a pure tank healer.

Newbie?

In Vanilla you actually was a cleanse bot until FoL was buffed. Then you got 2 spells you clicked on.... So you pressed one button healing the tank because honestly, you werent good at anything else....

Sad but true.

About the disc priest being the tank healer.....you just argue paladin shouldnt be why should discs be it then? Circular logic.

---------- Post added 2011-11-03 at 11:50 PM ----------

idk bout everyone else....but when someone tells me "just heal this one person" i heal the whole raid anyway...because "raid healers" don't have that burst heal we do and in Cata when the dps die so does the raid , most of the time.

We had a initiate healer like you, he didnt last long in the guild.

You play a role and you dont start doing other things then what you are supposed to, that would be the road to failure. Its all scripted.

[Nillo]

1) Newbie?

2) In Vanilla you actually was a cleanse bot until FoL was buffed. Then you got 2 spells you clicked on.... So you pressed one button healing the tank because honestly, you werent good at anything else....

3) About the disc priest being the tank healer.....you just argue paladin shouldnt be why should discs be it then? Circular logic.

1) Way to start a post - I shall henceforth call you idiot.

2) Yeah Vanilla... wait that was years ago...

3) Priests have strong absorbs - paladins don't (and no stacking mastery is not a good way to get those absorbs), Priests profit from healing only 1 (or maybe 2) targets at a time due to grace, Strength of Soul - beacon just screams: heal someone else and then the disc priests have almost no raid healing capabilities.
So what makes you think paladins are only meant for tank healing? (and don't say "WotLK" - we're not playing that anymore).

[Fredzilla]

(and don't say "WotLK" - we're not playing that anymore).

Wait... we aren't? You mean I can't just DS spam my way to the top of the DPS charts? Damn =[

On topic: I have mixed feelings about them basically removing HR from prot and ret. I know that it will probably make them easier to balance towards their roles, but it also further kills the paladin-ness of the specs in my opinion. I like having HR; sure it might not be the strongest heal, but saying you shouldn't use it because it's weak for us is stupid. Why use holy wrath at all? It does shit for damage.

Edit: Also, been awhile since I've seen ya nillo. You just permanently switch to holy or somethin after wrath?