"Zell has left the building." - discussion

[Nanotech]

that wouldnt get lots of attention though, and everyone knows blizzard just deletes those.

1. So the goal IS attention, right? Not necessarily from Blizzard then but from the community. To preach to the converted and get praised for it.
2. So first people say that Blizzard does want to know why people are quitting and therefore we SHOULD post "I quit" threads to let them know. Then you say that the sub cancellation surveys just get deleted. So which is it? Do they or do they not want to know? And if you really think they don't why bother posting long-winded threads about quitting on the forums?

[A Day to Remember]

So like if he quit WoW... then why did he get an acheivment an hour ago, when his forum post is 3 days old? I r confused.

[Joey Ray III]

if you're gonna quote an essay about some fuckin' guy quitting maybe you should start with telling us why should we give a shit? valid points they may be but it's all been said 300 times before.

cool story bro.

[Pua]

The funniest part about this is that if you check his armory the guy is still playing. How many honestly believe he is just playing this month out and will not be back next month?

As mentioned in my post, I'm playing until mid-late December so that my guild doesn't lose its best geared tank. Once the other plate tanks have geared past me, I have no other commitments.

[H3ll]

I couldn't agree more, i share exactly the same opinion as you do, which is why i quit myself a few months ago.
The thing that pissed me off the most is that blizzard repeatedly makes false promises. They said that they wanted to make the game harder, but instead it is easier than ever before.

Do you remember the aerial combat that was promised for WotLK, the kind that was even on the box? Well, we never got that, did we?

Or do you remember a certain dance studio that we never got?

I could go on and on about lies and false promises blizzard made, but i think i made my point clear

[PrecizionHunting]

and everyone knows blizzard just deletes those.

And parents just like disciplining their children when they do something wrong because they like seeing their kids upset and in anguish. See what I did there??? Okay, a little harsh but still. I've had plenty of times in different situations in life where I felt the same way. IE - like I said as a kid and thinking that my parents were evil a-holes (glad they did discipline me because I'd probably be more of a sh1thead than I am now!); When I was in the military and my superiors made me do complete crap jobs and duties. Then I began a "manager" type personnel and realized what they did they did for a reason almost always - and then I had to have my guys do the SAME crap, and I'm sure they thought I was an evil A-hole too. Now, I'm not COMPLETELY (only a little and trying to use...(omg) reason) defending blizzard here, but, I doubt that's what they do. Unless someone in here ACTUALLY works at blizzard and can confirm that, I'm going to say, "Probably not..." And I do have my own quams with blizzard so don't think I'm super fan boy'ing them. But, usually I will take a step back and see what I can do to help the situation. IE - They said almost NOTHING at blizzcon about PvP.....that really sat bad with. I'm okay at competitive PvP - not a super glad - but, I have multiple Rank 1 friends that have been Rank 1 a couple times and I know their concerns and the issues. ....some I see first hand. I guess, overall, there's nothing bad with voicing your concerns, opinions, and thougths....just don't go around preaching it like it's fallen unhigh from the heavens and Zeus himself came to you as his prodigal internet son that shall valiantly carry out in the name of glory, might, and hot pockets. I know it's easy for us nerd folk to flip sh!t, I do it too, but I save mine for like, idk, a guild first kill or something, or when XFOTM class jumps me in TB because I'm fishing and LARP'ing with a level 1 rabbit like a boss. Before you nerd out, take a step back and see if there is another reason that is behind your concern, if not, post away saviour of teh webzzzzezzzzz...zz.

[Pua]

Nice straw man, and the "this should be good" is tasty gravy, providing a convenient shield for your e-superiority. But here goes, for the benefit of people way smarter than you: not everything you stated was an opinion. And not every opinion is well-formed.

"Way smarter than me". Strong start.

Let's grab an example, even though, again, you'll just sidestep it, as folks like you tend to do oh so well:

"Folks like me". Even better.

You're claiming things about the dungeon finder, from its impact on server communities to "personal responsibility" to the quality of players found therein.

Are you claiming that the LFD tool has had a positive impact on the community? Or are you merely trying to argue for arguments sake? Maybe you can provide evidence to the contrary of my assertion? Or, just maybe, you're playing at being an intelligent critical reader and hoping people will be impressed by it.

This is objective, and when subject to even the slightest bit of scrutiny is wildly wrong, or at the very least inconclusive (and possibly indicative of a larger issue you're oversimplifying, which you do a lot of in said post, undermining your efforts for change).

It could very easily be an oversimplification but I daresay it's a fair assessment based on how the community has reacted to the introduction of the tool. If this is your argument for me being "wildly wrong", you've been found out as an intellectual imposter.

Unless, of course, you have the data to back up that indeed the dungeon finder is, in fact, all these things to a majority of players around the world. THAT would put me in my place, not whatever rebuttal you're likely preparing as you read this.

You have evidence to the contrary? I thought not.

Nice try.

Disclaimer: I'm no fanboy. I play WoW for fun and nothing more. It is, in fact, a heavily flawed game, for a great many waaaaaaaay more valid reasons than you've mustered in your way-off "critique." Just FYI in case the inevitable accusation of such is incoming.

I haven't once, in the EU post or this one, called anyone a fan boy; that's because it's both stupid and irrelevant.

And you had the audacity to talk about me creating straw men.

[Zehroh]

Very well thought out and written post and I hope the blue poster actually meant it when he said they believe his points are good as well...

That's a standard answer from Blizzard. And it's even coming from a CM that started yesterday.

[Nanotech]

As mentioned in my post, I'm playing until mid-late December so that my guild doesn't lose its best geared tank. Once the other plate tanks have geared past me, I have no other commitments.

I am probably completely and utterly confused here but I'm curious.

1. Why are you still taking heroic plate and accessory pieces if you say the other tanks aren't as geared as you? Wouldn't you pass them the gear so they could gear up faster for the benefit of your guild?
2. Also curious why you would faction change a month ago then pretty much immediately quit? I have faction and server transferred too before but that's when I was actually excited about the game and was looking for new opportunities and a new community.

[PrecizionHunting]

Mind is blown. This is the most logical thing I've seen in this entire thread. It's hilarious that this is mentioned on page 17.

I don't think it's anything special...just common sense >.> /shrug

And sorry for coming off to harsh @ Arnorei - sorry broseph. I nerded out a bit - my hot pocket spilled, and it was sausage kind, not even my go to cheese - I was heated :-( literally.

I like to try and be somewhat reasonable. And like I said, I'm not the best by ANY means and I don't think I ever will be, unless everyone else quits and it's just me.

Here's my toons, feel free to flame:

New Main: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...izion/advanced

Old Main: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...eways/advanced

[starlord]

1. So the goal IS attention, right? Not necessarily from Blizzard then but from the community. To preach to the converted and get praised for it.
2. So first people say that Blizzard does want to know why people are quitting and therefore we SHOULD post "I quit" threads to let them know. Then you say that the sub cancellation surveys just get deleted. So which is it? Do they or do they not want to know? And if you really think they don't why bother posting long-winded threads about quitting on the forums?

i was being sarcastic, doesnt carry well to text i suppose.

[Pua]

1. Why are you still taking heroic plate and accessory pieces if you say the other tanks aren't as geared as you? Wouldn't you pass them the gear so they could gear up faster for the benefit of your guild?
2. Also curious why you would faction change a month ago then pretty much immediately quit? I have faction and server transferred too before but that's when I was actually excited about the game and was looking for new opportunities and a new community.

Fair enough questions, really.

1. The other plate tank in the raid at the time had the bracers from Staghelm already; the other tank is a bear.
2. I've moved back to my original server to play with friends and to give the game one last chance on the server I spent most of my time loving WoW. I also have personal reasons which I don't wish to share.

[Dandruid]

Last activity - 2hrs ago so he must have quit for real!

Edit: There is a few valid posts, but a lot seems like their trying to hard.

[Kazlehoff]

Stopped reading after your first lie, it's a shame you can't pass your message across without resorting to lies, because Zell's post is actually quite interesting.

G'day!

We feel that your original thread brings up a great number of valid points, and we assure you that we have been following the concerns mentioned in it. However it is an "I quit" thread, and as such we feel it has served its purpose and thus there is no need to continue it.

If you wish to create another thread where you express your concerns about the game, please feel free to do so. Do keep in mind that "I quit" threads tend to be quite emotional and often derail into heated discussions, and because of this, feedback in such threads are often of less value to us.

Please keep the constructive feedback coming, but please try to keep it objective

Sorry, what?

[Jumpieboi]

Though i doubt much will change in MoP. The game continues to get easier,

Yes, the boring tank and spank fights were so much more difficult than today's heroic ragnaros.

Thank you, I know that now.

[Prothall]

"Way smarter than me". Strong start.


"Folks like me". Even better.


Are you claiming that the LFD tool has had a positive impact on the community? Or are you merely trying to argue for arguments sake? Maybe you can provide evidence to the contrary of my assertion? Or, just maybe, you're playing at being an intelligent critical reader and hoping people will be impressed by it.


It could very easily be an oversimplification but I daresay it's a fair assessment based on how the community has reacted to the introduction of the tool. If this is your argument for me being "wildly wrong", you've been found out as an intellectual imposter.


You have evidence to the contrary? I thought not.

Nice try.


I haven't once, in the EU post or this one, called anyone a fan boy; that's because it's both stupid and irrelevant.

And you had the audacity to talk about me creating straw men.

OK, I was kind of agreeing with you at the beginning, but now you're just acting like everybody else that thinks they're God's gift to the internet, and hiding behind what you believe to be superior intelligence, attitude, and grasp of the fundamentals of logic, trying to make yourself sound like you're perhaps better than the people who are disagreeing with you.

If you're truly quitting the game, go quit the game and be done with it. One thing we don't need around here is more attitude.

[Krid]

Threads like this should be kept to the official forums.

[Tydrane]

Interesting to see how many non-sequiturs and excuses are offered in lieu of actual responses to the points that Zell made. Several items on his list are objective quality-control issues; not subjective player experience issues. Frankly, many of you should be ashamed for employing ad hominem attacks that do nothing but discredit your own opinions on the issues Zell raises.

"I quit" posts do have a point and they're not all comprised of "qq wow sucks now". Many of these articulate people are telling Blizzard where they lost players like Zell, and flagging potential fixes that could bring them back to the game. The only reason I can see to ascribe them as pointless is that the CMs appear to have a tin ear to criticism, valid or otherwise (by this I mean, whether or not they actually do process those criticisms, the widespread perception is that they just ignore & lock threads). Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street has gone from being widely popular to a highly divisive figure in the WoW community, with ardent supporters and vehement detractors. I used to think he was kind-of cool, but lately he's smacked of off-putting arrogance and desperation.

Regardless of our opinions on the state of the game, I don't think we should diminish ourselves by personally attacking people who utter what they believe are legitimate grievances with the game. Zell expressed himself respectfully and politely, to respond otherwise is churlish and ultimately discrediting.

[Pua]

Sarcastic use of "intelligent critical reader." Nice. All while insinuating I should prove a negative, something outside the realm of reason, lest you believe I'm the reincarnation of Napoleon lest you prove otherwise.

Again, strawman. I'm claiming you haven't proven your claim, with the caveat that you *may* have touched on an issue with the game but oversimplified it, ruining whatever it was you were trying to get across.

Ah, right. So you have absolutely nothing to refute anything I've said.

Glad that's out the way, then.

It can't be a fair assessment if you don't have the slightest bit backing up said assessment.

Have you read nothing that's been said since my first post, or the myriad of other complaints in an identical vein? Claiming I have no evidence for suggesting the LFD was detrimental to the community is, frankly, ludicrous. The world can see where my point has come from, both my own experience and that of a great many others - hell, even those who think the LFD is a good idea concede it's been bad for the community.

But you should feel free to keep ignoring it. It's fine, I don't mind.

I once tried to tell a kid who believed a black cat crossing her path meant bad luck that the notion was ludicrous. She said I couldn't prove the black cat wasn't hexing her. You remind me of her.

But as hinted above, there is a wealth of commentary beyond my own that supports my version of events. Again, a straw man.

Actually I said "in case," and the entire ramble could have been handily refuted by you merely not replying to it, which would have made me look silly.

And yeah, I had the "audacity" to accuse you of crafting strawmen. Because you did.

Even those of the most basic education can see this misdirection for what it is.

So, that's two posts and you've yet to type a single syllable stating why I'm wrong other than "you can't prove anything", which is about as meaningless an argument as is available.

Care for another crack of the whip?

[Pua]

OK, I was kind of agreeing with you at the beginning, but now you're just acting like everybody else that thinks they're God's gift to the internet, and hiding behind what you believe to be superior intelligence, attitude, and grasp of the fundamentals of logic, trying to make yourself sound like you're perhaps better than the people who are disagreeing with you.

I've given more than the time of day to those who've provided disagreement with a context and a point to make.

My current detractor is still under open invitation to provide a single point of refutation.

And I'm still waiting.