No more healing in prot/ret, death of the hybrid?

[jeffersonian000]

I loved how Ret off-healed in Wrath, passively(at least I healed passively with my spec/blessing/seal choice). Use to just spam Divine Storm for the 15% damage dealt as a heal to myself and up to 4 others nearby, which normally were the two tanks and then other dps (10-mans). At no point did I ever waste a GCD to off-cast a heal other than the occassional "oh Shit!" Lay on Hands, yet normally I was 2nd highest in both heals and dps at the same time. While I can understand were others would find that OP, it was still fun/engaging for me, as it let me focus on my primary role: DPS.

Cata, frankly, killed Ret. It is not fun nor is it engaging to play a glass hammer (hits hard/can't take a hit). No other class is as inherently weak as Ret has been all expansion. Even with the 4.3 buffing, we again lost more of our self-sufficiancy with the loss of our last instant cast support heal that didn't impact our dps to actually use. What other class has to make a hard choice between doing their actual role or doing the role Blizzard thinks they should be doing? When I queue for a dungeon, I'm queuing as "DPS", not "Support". Last I check, the is no "Support" box to check, so why the hell does Blizz think that Ret has to fill the "support" role?

I miss the lost passive defense and passive aoe healing that made Ret fun to play. On the upside, at least I have big numbers to look at while DPS'ing this tier, so I guess there's that.

SJ

[Talen]

Ah, but you see, I'm firmly in the camp that believes the "support" role for a Paladin needs to fucking die.

As am I

I'm not too much against it in concept, but Blizzards handling of the role/concept has been less than sub par. They keep trying to force the spec into a role but refuse to give the class the tools it needs to fill that role because they fear it will be OP....and this is where the lack of balancing mechanics and the refusal to implement them (despite Blizzard mentioning the desireability of such mechanics several times) comes in.

Given Blizzards various statements on this issue, the feeling does arise that the class is limited not by Blizzard not knowing what the class needs, but a doctrine that simply prevents them adding the necessary tools and balance systems because it doesn't fit in with their "vision" of the class. They CAN'T give the class the necessary tools without changing that vision....but that in turn means if it triues to fulfil the support or offhealing role the class becomes OP.

I know that sounds a little paranoid....but if Blizzard have a vision, and know that the class needs certain mechanics to make it work and yet refuse to implement those mechanics, its difficult for me to see any reason other than "goes agaisnt the class vision". There may be other reasons...but I can't see them and Blizzrad hasn't communicated them.

As it is, without the appropriate toolkit and balance systems....I don't think the support/off healing/melee healer role has any business being attached to the paladin.

If I can be viable as an off healer *OR* Viable as a DPS, that's alright.

This is where does balance mechanics comes in.

Imagine if Paladins had a healing stance and a DPS stance. Then you'd choose your role, and because of that, you'd need to choose viability as an off-healer or viability as DPS...but not both at once.

Thats an example....but a valid one as Blizzard have commented on the issue the lack of a stance system has caused.

The key point is that Rets should at least have the option of being a viable DPS spec and shouldn't be forced into an offhealing or support role.

EJL

[Dorkman007]

Paladins haven't been a "hybrid class" since cata-launch. Sure ret and prot were able to heal for a fair amount (and still are to an extent), but they at no point "hybrid healers". I define the term as hybrid as such: if you are a hybrid, you can heal (in this example) the instance, regardless of being healer specced. This was never the case, so this change isn't "the end of the hybrid paladin", as that was at cata launch.
I remember healing a few instances as ret in wotlk, and the famous prolydin times in pvp were fun as hell, but in the end, if I want to heal, I have a tree for that.
With the whole hybridization of classes I thought that hybrids would die out in MoP, but looking at druids I'm inclined to see what happens as they are pushing that hybrid thing even further.

Oh and as always: probably not even in the friends-and-family alpha yet, so this is all subject to change anyways.

Look at the bright side, now the dps/tank trees don't have to take hits in terms of balance for being able to self-heal. I personally don't find this disturbing at all.

[Talen]

Paladins haven't been a "hybrid class" since cata-launch. Sure ret and prot were able to heal for a fair amount (and still are to an extent), but they at no point "hybrid healers". I define the term as hybrid as such: if you are a hybrid, you can heal (in this example) the instance, regardless of being healer specced.

Thats great...but I don't believe anypone else has EVER defined hybrid in that manner.

EJL

[Jonuts]

Imagine if Paladins had a healing stance and a DPS stance. Then you'd choose your role, and because of that, you'd need to choose viability as an off-healer or viability as DPS...but not both at once.

We do have a healing stance and a DPS stance. It's called "I spec'd Holy" and "I spec'd Ret". No other stance is necessary, because there is no fucking reason I should be able to drop a 100k heal every 10 seconds as a DPS.

[Reith]

We do have a healing stance and a DPS stance. It's called "I spec'd Holy" and "I spec'd Ret". No other stance is necessary, because there is no fucking reason I should be able to drop a 100k heal every 10 seconds as a DPS.

Too bad you can't in reality. Reality is far more cruel than fantasy.

[Divinator]

rofl. If the utility talents in MoP don't change, prot paladins will b the most powerful class/spec in the game. QQ now but rejoice in Mists.

[Tanyn]

I think in a pure PvE environment you wouldn't want your DPS to heal, but everything is not PvE. PvP, leveling and questing is different. Hybrids should at least be able to heal AS WELL AS a pure DPS class. In those other instances Retribution is way behind other DPS classes. As I said before, Retribution is penalized for being able to hard-cast heals, even though the heals are usually very low return. I'd rather lose the ability to hard-cast heals and get something more useful for my survival.

[Simca]

Thats great...but I don't believe anypone else has EVER defined hybrid in that manner.

EJL

To be fair, while his definition is meh, the Paladin hybrid died well before Cataclysm.

If anything, getting the no-CD WoG back is a buff to hybrids, not the silly cast time high mana cost healing nonsense.

[Deleted]

Isnt a hybird class nothing more then a class that has access to all 3 roles with their choices of specs?

[Jonuts]

Incorrect, a hybrid class has access to 2 or more roles. As such, Warriors are hybrids.

[Goretex]

I wish pallies would go back the way they were in vanilla and BC, where they could really only be tanks or healers because their dps was so shitty. If you're complaining about heals as ret, you should of played in vanilla or BC then you'd really wanna slit your wrists. But if your a healer you should go holy and if your a dps go ret. I would be perfectly fine with pallies just having 2 specs holy and prot lol. Pallies such a pain to take down alot of the times in pvp.

[Talen]

We do have a healing stance and a DPS stance. It's called "I spec'd Holy" and "I spec'd Ret". No other stance is necessary, because there is no fucking reason I should be able to drop a 100k heal every 10 seconds as a DPS.

Its called being a hybrid that isn't super-specialist.

You rolled to do DPS...great. But if Blizzard wants an off-healer spec then you need some balance mechanic....that can be activated without relying on spec choice because that defeats the entire purpose of the offhealer role...to ensure it can work.

EJL

[CrazyEyez315]

According to the main page, Holy Light, Divine Light, and Holy Radiance are now exclusive to the holy tree. That leaves us with WoG, and Flash of Light only.
So what is your take on this? just take the hybrid out of our class. Now, maybe I am just over reacting, but now we can't even out heal a blood dk casting.

I should mention that I am prot, not ret. So the selfless healer doesn't affect me.

This bugs me cause I like to take over healing if a healer dies during dungeons. Other then that not really that big a deal.

Edit: I run as Ret

[Lumineus]

I wish pallies would go back the way they were in vanilla and BC, where they could really only be tanks or healers because their dps was so shitty. If you're complaining about heals as ret, you should of played in vanilla or BC then you'd really wanna slit your wrists.

In Vanilla I healed with 31 pts in Ret because the Holy tree was worthless past Illumination...

[Nalydyn]

The WoG change just reverts a nerf that was unjustified to begin with.

Being able to throw out 40k heals every few seconds during zealotry was way op in pvp. Especially with the Eternal glory procs. I was healing myself for 100k+ in 3 GCDs. The most procs I had i a row from eternal glory was 6. It was stupid RNG that made you FAR too hard to kill, especially with sacred shield. It was a necessary nerf, although one that I was sad to see go. It was nice to be as strong as a blood DK for once. The only way it was unjustified was in that it made us not as OP as mages and DKs.