Is it possible to be an Engineer if you suck at math?

[Archangel Tyrael]

I got asked the same question when I was in the US Navy, going through Nuclear Power training - I was a Reactor Operator on submarines for many years - I was doing great in Heat Transfer & Fluid Flow and Physics, but mediocre in Math.

I was accused of not trying in Math, since I was doing well in all my other courses which require math skills...

The problem for me is math was being taught at the rote memorization, abstract level e.g. ax + by + c = z

I get bored silly while studying abstract math problems, but get me into another subject where I can use solve equations using numbers - not letters of the alphabet - and I am fine.

Math has you doing lots of repetition so that you learn to recognize patterns while trying to simplify equations, while physics is teaching you interesting concepts and giving you actual numbers to calculate a result with.

Math teachers trying to teach me calculus, when they can't explain why being able to calculate the area under the curve [or the slope of a line] is useful to me, didn't help.

woah i'm like that as well oO

[Waylander]

Why do you suck at math? Not interested in it at all or just lazy?
You will have math in a lot of courses besides the math-courses (physics, mechanics, etc...) so you will use it a lot!.

Good knowledge of the basic stuff (how to solve equations, curve sketching, derivation, integration and being comfortable with handling physical units ...) is a good start. You do not have to be a genius in menthal arithmetic though.

[marukale]

And how exactly do i go on to be ''good'' at math?

When i say i suck at math i mean i just barely ''got by'' when i was younger... i graduated in Law and work for the military, but i wanted a change in life, i am really ''safe'' now on the economical aspect, so i wanted to try something different...

The fact that i suck at math doesn't mean i don't like it, it's just that when i was younger i had other things in my mind (which i regret today but eh...)

Also @Adman319 - What do you mean with German/Austrian schools being dated on Engineering? I've always heard that people with an engineering degree that comes from Germany are ''respected'' because German universities are really good on this subject...

All engineering degrees will have an aspect of maths in them. Which branch of maths will depend on what branch of engineering. You might want to find a pre-university level maths course that you can do to find out if you still suck. I'm not that knowledgeable on the German system but most universities expect maths knowledge, which you might not have learnt, or might have forgotten. By doing a pre-university level course you will be in a much better position to do an engineering degree. It may be possible to do a part time distance course that you can fit around your work.

[Deleted]

I'd say... define "suck at math".. cuz if you mean.. you simply don't have a built in calculator in your head.. then its fine.. use technology for that... but if you mean.. you don't understand the formulas, don't know why you use a formula for that.. or that.. and simply can't for the love of god put it in your head... then i guess engineering would be a very aimed for you.. at a certain thing.. you learn the .. "stuff" .. for it.. the formulas n what not.. but absolutely not a very "pro" engineer.. by that i mean.. you could make mony with it.. but not as much as youd like probably..

[marukale]

I got asked the same question when I was in the US Navy, going through Nuclear Power training - I was a Reactor Operator on submarines for many years - I was doing great in Heat Transfer & Fluid Flow and Physics, but mediocre in Math.

I was accused of not trying in Math, since I was doing well in all my other courses which require math skills...

The problem for me is math was being taught at the rote memorization, abstract level e.g. ax + by + c = z

I get bored silly while studying abstract math problems, but get me into another subject where I can use solve equations using numbers - not letters of the alphabet - and I am fine.

Math has you doing lots of repetition so that you learn to recognize patterns while trying to simplify equations, while physics is teaching you interesting concepts and giving you actual numbers to calculate a result with.

Math teachers trying to teach me calculus, when they can't explain why being able to calculate the area under the curve [or the slope of a line] is useful to me, didn't help.

Doing physics to anywhere near university level is a lot more abstract, it becomes mainly about proofs rather than trying to produce an answer. If you had a maths teacher or physics teach that couldn't explain why calculating the area under a curve is useful then they suck at teaching. There are a lot of equations in physics which are basically calculate the area under the line, if you look at the various equations for speed then you should be able to see that.

[xsistor]

If you're as terrified of number as you say you are, then there's no way you can get an engineering degree --- unless maybe if the university you went to is shit and gives you one even with you skipping the mathematical subjects. There are a few in the UK that will do that.

All engineering subjects are grounded in am measure of mathematics. If you're good at physics then you should be good at mathematics. Unless by physics you mean reading a book about physics for the layperson (aka pop science) and deciding you like it.
When I did my degree in Electrical & Electronics Engineering there was one student who did not have A Level maths but he did a foundation year in Uni where he did maths. That foundation year is a crash course. It doesn't give you the depth or breadth of coverage on topics like calculus, differential equations, geometry and methods of proofs that you would get in school as prep for university maths.
As such he failed his final year twice. Ended up never earning a degree. Basically he wasted 5 years of his life trying to earn an engineering degree which he just could not do. I'm surprised they even let him in. He must've had other impressive qualifications, because my uni was very selective, and this guy just couldn't handle the maths.

You don't need nearly the love of abstract concepts that you would if you wanted to do a degree in mathematics. If pure mathematical topics like Analysis, Topology, Group Theory, Rings, Ideals and Fields, Functional Analysis, Measure Theory, Algebraic Topology, etc make you poop your pants, then don't fear. You can still become an engineer. This level of rigour and abstraction is not required of the engineer (but it IS required of the mathematician).
But for engineering you need to be solidly ready to take multivariable calculus and differential equations. Including Partial Differential Equations and transforms like Laplace, Fourier and Z-transforms. So when you say you are bad at maths, if you feel that you can't handle this sort of Applied Mathematics. If you feel that calculus is an dark art practised that you will never be able to master, then engineering is not for you.

You could try it, but you will not only be undistinguished, you will probably fail.

There are other fields that are technical but do not require maths. You could consider those. IT for example. Or Engineering Technicians (Mechanics, Electricians, Electronic Technicians) which are vocational and probably not the end-goal for an aspiring university student. Focus on your strengths and do something in which you can excel. Biology perhaps. Molecular Biology even. It is science-y and has physics in it, but does not require much maths.


One last thing. Doing badly at Maths in school doesn't necessarily mean you;re bad at Maths -- so ask yourself if you're ready to really learn the subject. There have been years when I've done badly at maths in school. It took me a while to realize how much I liked it. In fact, I only realised I was good at it and interested in very late in my educational career. I ended up getting 100s for high school calculus-based papers. And 100s for Engineering Maths. Now I am a researcher in a very mathematical area, and through it, inventing a new field of engineering. A far cry from that guy who once barely passed his second and third grade maths.

[Deleted]

Ah, no, that's practically impossible, you have to learn maths...

[xsistor]

Doing physics to anywhere near university level is a lot more abstract, it becomes mainly about proofs rather than trying to produce an answer. If you had a maths teacher or physics teach that couldn't explain why calculating the area under a curve is useful then they suck at teaching. There are a lot of equations in physics which are basically calculate the area under the line, if you look at the various equations for speed then you should be able to see that.

Precisely.

And Engineering Maths is also quite abstract (though not as abstract as Theoretical Physics. Closer to Experimental Physics. Then again it depends on the degree. The Maths I did for my final year engineering was easily equal to what the Maths students themselves were doing, albeit ignoring applications, and certainly beyond what the theoretcal physics students were doing).

[Deleted]

Another graduated physicist here.

While i do think it's possible if you're not good at math, you will have to accept that in the first 2 years of your Engineering studies you will be doing more math than actual engineering or physics. My first year at uni (physics) we had 60% Math, 30% Physics and 10% other stuff, like electronics, mechanical engineering etc. So it's gonna be really rough on you.

The reason we are using letters rather than numbers is to learn to think abstract more. so if you use a mass of "m" kgs, rather than a mass of "10 kgs" it makes it easier. I get a solution which eg has the letter "m^2" in it, you get a number as result.
If then the teacher tells you to use a mass that is twice as big, i will know instantly that my solution will be (2m)^2 so 4 times bigger. You would have to do the complete calculation again.

Its weird at first, working with letters, but it really pays off in the end

[xsistor]

I got asked the same question when I was in the US Navy, going through Nuclear Power training - I was a Reactor Operator on submarines for many years - I was doing great in Heat Transfer & Fluid Flow and Physics, but mediocre in Math.

I was accused of not trying in Math, since I was doing well in all my other courses which require math skills...

The problem for me is math was being taught at the rote memorization, abstract level e.g. ax + by + c = z

I get bored silly while studying abstract math problems, but get me into another subject where I can use solve equations using numbers - not letters of the alphabet - and I am fine.

Math has you doing lots of repetition so that you learn to recognize patterns while trying to simplify equations, while physics is teaching you interesting concepts and giving you actual numbers to calculate a result with.

Math teachers trying to teach me calculus, when they can't explain why being able to calculate the area under the curve [or the slope of a line] is useful to me, didn't help.

This is also wrong. It's the long way to look at maths, it#s the wrong way to teach it, and it's the wrong way to understand. Physics cannot even begin to compare with the beauty you find in mathematics. It is enormously more dull as a subject. But this is also a fact unknown to the vast majority.

To see what I mean read Paul Lockhart's - A Mathematician's Lament. It's about the sorry state of mathematics education, and how nobody studying mathematics actually has a clue what mathematics is REALLY about. http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf ... This is a MUST READ for the OP to help him make a better decision. The first 2 pages at least!

Also, time and an appreciation for abstract mathematical concepts permitting, read A Mathematician's Apology... It was written by no lesser man than GH Hardy himself and is an eye-opener.

Mathematics, rightly viewed, possesses not only truth, but supreme beauty — a beauty cold and austere, like that of sculpture, without appeal to any part of our weaker nature, without the gorgeous trappings of painting or music, yet sublimely pure, and capable of a stern perfection such as only the greatest art can show. The true spirit of delight, the exaltation, the sense of being more than Man, which is the touchstone of the highest excellence, is to be found in mathematics as surely as poetry. — Bertrand Russell

A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas. — G. H. Hardy, A Mathematician's Apology

[Deleted]

Not a chance.

[xsistor]

Another graduated physicist here.

While i do think it's possible if you're not good at math, you will have to accept that in the first 2 years of your Engineering studies you will be doing more math than actual engineering or physics. My first year at uni (physics) we had 60% Math, 30% Physics and 10% other stuff, like electronics, mechanical engineering etc. So it's gonna be really rough on you.

The reason we are using letters rather than numbers is to learn to think abstract more. so if you use a mass of "m" kgs, rather than a mass of "10 kgs" it makes it easier. I get a solution which eg has the letter "m^2" in it, you get a number as result.
If then the teacher tells you to use a mass that is twice as big, i will know instantly that my solution will be (2m)^2 so 4 times bigger. You would have to do the complete calculation again.

Its weird at first, working with letters, but it really pays off in the end

This is another good point. If you're having trouble with the use of variables in elementary algebra then heaven forbid that you should have something like abstract algebra. Where it is not just the numbers that are abstracted to variables. They are abstracted to complex algebraic structures. And to make things even more obtuse the operations such as + and * and / are not just addition, multiplication and division in the usual sense but very abstract concepts in themselves.

[Archangel Tyrael]

This is also wrong. It's the long way to look at maths, it#s the wrong way to teach it, and it's the wrong way to understand. Physics cannot even begin to compare with the beauty you find in mathematics. It is enormously more dull as a subject. But this is also a fact unknown to the vast majority.

To see what I mean read Paul Lockhart's - A Mathematician's Lament. It's about the sorry state of mathematics education, and how nobody studying mathematics actually has a clue what mathematics is REALLY about. http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf ... This is a MUST READ for the OP to help him make a better decision. The first 2 pages at least!

Also, time and an appreciation for abstract mathematical concepts permitting, read A Mathematician's Apology... It was written by no lesser man than GH Hardy himself and is an eye-opener.

Mathematics, rightly viewed, possesses not only truth, but supreme beauty — a beauty cold and austere, like that of sculpture, without appeal to any part of our weaker nature, without the gorgeous trappings of painting or music, yet sublimely pure, and capable of a stern perfection such as only the greatest art can show. The true spirit of delight, the exaltation, the sense of being more than Man, which is the touchstone of the highest excellence, is to be found in mathematics as surely as poetry. — Bertrand Russell

A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas. — G. H. Hardy, A Mathematician's Apology

gonna read that, thanks for the link.

[ZAURON]

I'm an engineer, according to me the answer is:
-yes, it is possible to get a degree if u sucks in math
-yes u will always be a terrible engineer if u will still sucks in math

[Deleted]

I'm an engineer, according to me the answer is:
-yes, it is possible to get a degree if u sucks in math
-yes u will always be a terrible engineer if u will still sucks in math

A decent engineer should at least be able to write correctly. Now nobody will believe you.
+ if you are you know as good as I do that the math is extremely hard and you should at least know how to work with numbers and all that.

You fail.

[Archangel Tyrael]

Ok i'm guess some people got the wrong idea about what i'm asking or maybe i wasn't clear / didn't make my point clear enough.

I'm ''bad'' at math, because i never worked and never gave a damn about it. I started reading into Engineering and seeing it first hand i really liked it.

So, being an engineer is not my dream, but i'm always tempted to do things i find ''challenging''. Going into Engineer uni and dropping is no problem to me, i have the time to do it now and i have a really healthy economical situation...

I just wanted to know if, it's possible at a later age (22) to ''regain'' the knowledge of maths required to get into an engineering course, and if so, how do i approach that?
If i wanted to be a ''crappy'' engineer like many of you suggested, i wouldn't even consider it. I'm just asking broadly, if math is really mounstrous like some people make it out to be...

Again , i'm ''bad'' at math because i never worked on it and never cared about it.

[Ozy]

You can do it!...it may take a little more work if you think you "suck" though.

Now that you "care" about it you will be motivated to learn it.

[xsistor]

Ok i'm guess some people got the wrong idea about what i'm asking or maybe i wasn't clear / didn't make my point clear enough.

I'm ''bad'' at math, because i never worked and never gave a damn about it. I started reading into Engineering and seeing it first hand i really liked it.

So, being an engineer is not my dream, but i'm always tempted to do things i find ''challenging''. Going into Engineer uni and dropping is no problem to me, i have the time to do it now and i have a really healthy economical situation...

I just wanted to know if, it's possible at a later age (22) to ''regain'' the knowledge of maths required to get into an engineering course, and if so, how do i approach that?
If i wanted to be a ''crappy'' engineer like many of you suggested, i wouldn't even consider it. I'm just asking broadly, if math is really mounstrous like some people make it out to be...

Again , i'm ''bad'' at math because i never worked on it and never cared about it.

It's entirely possible. Apply yourself. Get books on maths and study it. Go to Khan Academy's website. Try to master standard algebra and single variable calculus. When you're better, use MIT's Opencourseware in engineering and look at the maths courses for a flavour of what university will be like. If you can do these things then you can enroll for a degree, provided a university accepts you.
If you want to sail through engineering without learning maths, then it won't happen. But you can certainly learn it at 22 or 65, as long as you have the drive. You're not trying to solve the P vs NP problem here, or prove the Riemann Hypothesis. You can definitely get good enough at maths to do engineering.

[Deleted]

A decent engineer should at least be able to write correctly. Now nobody will believe you.
+ if you are you know as good as I do that the math is extremely hard and you should at least know how to work with numbers and all that.

You fail.

It didn't struck your mind just once, that he might be talking a different language than you?

[Lagwin]

If the thought of being an engineer is enticing enough you'll learn maths quite easily it all down to the way its presented, plain maths is usually presented in such a way that it makes most people fall asleep (myself included) but if its wrapped in something you want to do it's not hard to pick up.

Personally i failed maths in school but i passed higher chemistry which included a shit ton of maths because i liked chemistry enough to be interested