THE Voice over = skip anyway

[Eroginous]

Yeah, those are called single player games.

So because SW:ToR is an MMO, it has an excuse not to have deep story driven quests that have an actual impact on the game? That because it's not single player, it's allowed to replace that experience with a bunch of arbitrary quests and still somehow be called good?

I don't buy it.

I would find it pretty difficult to provide unique story driven quests to every player in the game, but maybe that's just me.

Unique to each player? No. Unique to the story of each class? Why not? Maybe if the story line started at level one and progressed from a class point of view, the player would feel more important in the grand scheme of things. You know, make the player feel like the story actually has some purpose to them as they level. And not just a bunch of meaningless quests designed to sink your time into leveling.

Delighted you have an opinion on the matter. It's been noted and archived for the future generations.

I'm afraid, however, that many people disagree with your superior artistic perception of the issue.

Oh and FYI, you are not the one to determine what others should or should not listen to or perceive as bland or interesting. You only determine that for yourself.

So please stop preaching this as if it's the God's final truth.

My opinion isn't meant to be preachy or the final word. It's meant to illustrate the differences between questing in a traditional single player RPG and in an MMORPG, begging the question of why MMOs don't have more traditional quests and what about grinding on generic and bland quests could possibly be fun? Being able to skip every single quest between level 10 and 50, without seeing a noticable difference, is a problem. It means that the questing really has no value in regards to the story, much less giving your character a reason to progress through it.

If the story isn't about him, what's the point, exactly?

[Glorious Leader]

Think Legend of Zelda series. Or Final Fantasy. In those games you are presented with your quest at the very beginning, and you undertake tasks along the way that aid you in completing your quest.
.

The early Zelda and Final Fantasy games had the most generic story lines in rpgs. Usually involving a crystal and some form of magic and some hero gaining access to either one of those to fight some dark force that has come.

[StationaryHawk]

I'll almost always listen to the dialogue, and will enjoy the group conversations. I'm aware that there will be people who will want to skip over the dialogue, though; the people that don't care for story. That's perfectly acceptalbe.

[Glorious Leader]

So because SW:ToR is an MMO, it has an excuse not to have deep story driven quests that have an actual impact on the game? That because it's not single player, it's allowed to replace that experience with a bunch of arbitrary quests and still somehow be called good?

I don't buy it.



Unique to each player? No. Unique to the story of each class? Why not? Maybe if the story line started at level one and progressed from a class point of view, the player would feel more important in the grand scheme of things. You know, make the player feel like the story actually has some purpose to them as they level. And not just a bunch of meaningless quests designed to sink your time into leveling.



My opinion isn't meant to be preachy or the final word. It's meant to illustrate the differences between questing in a traditional single player RPG and in an MMORPG, begging the question of why MMOs don't have more traditional quests and what about grinding on generic and bland quests could possibly be fun? Being able to skip every single quest between level 10 and 50, without seeing a noticable difference, is a problem. It means that the questing really has no value in regards to the story, much less giving your character a reason to progress through it.

If the story isn't about him, what's the point, exactly?

I'm truly sorry you feel the way you do. Their were quests in that game that had me literally clapping like a seal at my god damned key board. They are not by any means all excellent but on the whole the quality is very good. In the end I don't think your feeling is shared or even pervasive amoung the vast majority of the community who have played the game. It's Star Wars, not Asimov. When you can understand and know the difference, then you know what to expect of swtor and theirs a good chance you will be pleasantly surprised.

[zealous]

I'm truly sorry you feel the way you do. Their were quests in that game that had me literally clapping like a seal at my god damned key board. They are not by any means all excellent but on the whole the quality is very good. In the end I don't think your feeling is shared or even pervasive amoung the vast majority of the community who have played the game. It's Star Wars, not Asimov. When you can understand and know the difference, then you know what to expect of swtor and theirs a good chance you will be pleasantly surprised.

I think you can only label the stories bland if you either are VERY critical and unforgiving or you never played past level 10.

That's my take on it at least.

Maybe there are also literary geniuses or people with extraordinarily refined tastes.

[Daarksoul]

The community for this game also drives me away from it anytime someone voices a negative opinion its flooded with
"LOL WOW FANBOY GO BACK TO KUNG FU PANDA"
"ITS A STORY DRIVEN GAME OMG WHY CAN'T YOU GUYS UNDERSTAND HOW STORY THIS MMOSTORY IS"
I honestly think its worse than the WoW community by a lot.

Why would anyone voice a negative opinion in the Beta testing?
First, it cost you nothing to play, it's free, so appreciate that.
Second, there's plenty of places for real feedback of any negative opinion to the devs where it counts.
Simply QQing in chat doesn't do anything but annoy people.
The fact that you think people should be able to QQ in chat and get away with it highlights just how bad wows community is.
SWTOR players don't appreciate this sort of trolling and badmouthing of the game by someone who's playing for free.
If you didn't like it, stop playing it for free!
That's what those people were trying to tell you when you QQ'd... go back to a game where that kind of QQ is accepted.... wow.

[Glorious Leader]

I think you can only label the stories bland if you either are VERY critical and unforgiving or you never played past level 10.

That's my take on it at least.

Maybe there are also literary geniuses or people with extraordinarily refined tastes.

I've been reading science fiction since 1984. All the masters you've heard and most of the ones who have went unheard. Star Wars and Star Trek are basically the McDonalds of science fiction, nothing wrong with that. Sometimes you want a double cheeseburger. Their is room enough for SWTOR story in this world and their is room enough for Phillip K Dick, or Roger Zelzany, or William Gibson. Take your pick.

[Cel]

It's generic because you can cut and paste the dialog into any sci fi story and it would fit. It's bland because there's not much that's exciting about the IP this is based from to begin with. Every good SW title that has ever been released as a video game has been based/extended from the movie franchise. Those games are good because they follow a theme or direction for a pre existing plot that ties directly into game play. Players enjoy those games because they identified in some manner with the characters from the movies and playing a game based around those characters fulfilled many a nerds wet dream.

In SWTOR, it's great that you get to play as one of many roles from the movie franchise, but it falls short because you're just generic jedi/trooper/sith/bounty hunter/ect and your purpose is defined the same as every other player in the game playing your class. This becomes increasingly obvious as you progress through a series of 'story driven' quests where NPCs direct you to complete objectives that are no different than any other generic quest from any other RPG, ever.

The best RPG games ever made are usually ones where you only have one quest and the entire game is centered around completing that quest. All the mini quests in the world with the most elaborate voice acting and ground breaking cut scenes are going to pale in comparison to one RPG with a single epic quest. Think Legend of Zelda series. Or Final Fantasy. In those games you are presented with your quest at the very beginning, and you undertake tasks along the way that aid you in completing your quest.

I haven't yet discovered anything in SWTOR that is a pointed part of any of my characters main story or purpose for being in the old republic. Therefore the story has been bland and generic thus far.

Except that you are wrong. And now im speaking from fact, not opinion. The Kotor games, (Kotor 1 specially) are considered some of the best RPGs of their time by many many people. They were huge successes. Guess what? Kotor is what set the stage for SWTOR and those games were not based off the movies, just the IP. Directly contradicting what you just said.

You said you could copy paste the plot and story points? Maybe if you look at them with a very vague and disinterested view... It is a mmo. I have yet to see one that breaks from the typical mold of go here, do that (though honestly, I do believe SWTOR while not vastly different, does do it better then WoW even not counting the VO).

But you move past the MMO mold and the story is engaging. From what I have seen of my character's story line so far, it fits the SW universe and no other story outside the SW IP could be considered just like it.

Now, don't take this personal because its over the net and I don't know you. But from what you are posting it feels like you are approaching the game with a very pessimistic stance. Technically, if you wanted to be anal, you could say that about almost any story that comes out these days. There is very few original works out there and the fact of the matter, is the story of SWTOR may be a bit Generic to the IP, but not out of it, and its still removed from the other SW stories.

Also, I still don't see how you can say its bland. If you think the entire IP is bland, it doesn't make any sense for you to have any interest in this game at all. On the other hand, many SW fans, myself included love the IP, believe it has a lot of great engaging arcs, and the fact that you don't enjoy it, once again, is a personal view of your own. You need to stop talking like your opinion is shared with the rest of us, because you are just simply flat out wrong.

[Daarksoul]

Just the fact that people are debating the story, how good and bad it is, etc. etc. shows how freaking awesome it is.
I couldn't imagine a thread about wow questing talking about the story discussed in the quest text - especially in levels 1-10!
Even the worgen and goblin stories, while a 10 times improvement over most starting areas were failures.
Instead wow players just want more heirlooms to level faster and ignore the whole game until level 85.
Bobby Kotick might as well add a "pay me to reach level 85 instantly" button.

The only starting story that holds up at all for wow for the DK, though I personally found it dull and boring.
But that's just me, admittedly I'm plagued by a deep literary education so it's hard to ignore some of the obvious story telling flaws.

[Cel]

So because SW:ToR is an MMO, it has an excuse not to have deep story driven quests that have an actual impact on the game? That because it's not single player, it's allowed to replace that experience with a bunch of arbitrary quests and still somehow be called good?

I don't buy it.



Unique to each player? No. Unique to the story of each class? Why not? Maybe if the story line started at level one and progressed from a class point of view, the player would feel more important in the grand scheme of things. You know, make the player feel like the story actually has some purpose to them as they level. And not just a bunch of meaningless quests designed to sink your time into leveling.



My opinion isn't meant to be preachy or the final word. It's meant to illustrate the differences between questing in a traditional single player RPG and in an MMORPG, begging the question of why MMOs don't have more traditional quests and what about grinding on generic and bland quests could possibly be fun? Being able to skip every single quest between level 10 and 50, without seeing a noticable difference, is a problem. It means that the questing really has no value in regards to the story, much less giving your character a reason to progress through it.

If the story isn't about him, what's the point, exactly?

Once again, opinion. I feel the story has been fulfilling so far. It doesn't have an excuse for being bad. I think the story has been good so far for what I have seen and its Bioware. Kings of story telling in the gaming community. Some of this is based on me having faith in Bioware to deliver. But just because you don't like it, why do you think the story can't be enjoyed by players that care?

Secondly, you obviously haven't been paying any attention to the story going through it if you dont think there isn't a over arcing plot. There is a final goal your side is working for. And each class is doing their part to achieve that goal from different perspectives. Hell, I havent even got there yet, but I am excited just for the incentive of leveling each class to get the full picture of whats going on.

On your final point. It is a MMO, once again. Its not supposed to be an excuse, but SWTOR, (hell, even WoW) include what you say is missing. The problem is that in a MMO you need more then just that one single path to travel through. MMO companies are always struggling with keeping players engaged in the story while at the same time not totally losing the ability to explore the world at your own pace. Even railed MMOs have sandbox properties. You honestly rather have a FFXIII style story where you are directed every step of the way, while playing an MMO? (Gah, I hated FFXIII, and I am a huge FF fan. But 13 was a failure as I see it. It was interactive movie with a auto play button. My opinion, but some of the worst garbage Square has released) Anyhow, it would contradict the game itself. I just don't see how it could work. If you think you have ideas on how it could, I (as well as many game companies) probably would love to have that view point. But if you have a interactive movie as a MMO, you wont have much of a MMO aspect.

[RedMageNeko]

Honestly? I think the only time I skipped the voice dialog was at the end of the last weekend, when I had less then five minutes to finish one last quest before they brought the servers down and I REALLY wanted to see what was going to happen.

I can see where in Flashpoints or side quests after the third or fourth time you'll be space baring through, but honestly? I think it adds a LOT more to the game then not.

[Blaine123]

This isn't WoW aka race to max lvl. Actually enjoy the game. This is one of those games where each class will have a story. Not the same story with a different class.

[Hanto]

I skipped everything except for the main class line. I was loving the Sith Inquisitioner story.

[Venziir]

Why would you skip over the thing Bioware does best?

Because he wants to be a dragon.

---------- Post added 2011-12-03 at 01:15 AM ----------

Just the fact that people are debating the story, how good and bad it is, etc. etc. shows how freaking awesome it is.
I couldn't imagine a thread about wow questing talking about the story discussed in the quest text - especially in levels 1-10!
Even the worgen and goblin stories, while a 10 times improvement over most starting areas were failures.
Instead wow players just want more heirlooms to level faster and ignore the whole game until level 85.
Bobby Kotick might as well add a "pay me to reach level 85 instantly" button.

The only starting story that holds up at all for wow for the DK, though I personally found it dull and boring.
But that's just me, admittedly I'm plagued by a deep literary education so it's hard to ignore some of the obvious story telling flaws.

Because WoW is 7 years old, you wait till most people are doing the story for the 4th time, because they need X char for Y situation...

[Slothanator]

Why would anyone voice a negative opinion in the Beta testing?
First, it cost you nothing to play, it's free, so appreciate that.
Second, there's plenty of places for real feedback of any negative opinion to the devs where it counts.
Simply QQing in chat doesn't do anything but annoy people.
The fact that you think people should be able to QQ in chat and get away with it highlights just how bad wows community is.
SWTOR players don't appreciate this sort of trolling and badmouthing of the game by someone who's playing for free.
If you didn't like it, stop playing it for free!
That's what those people were trying to tell you when you QQ'd... go back to a game where that kind of QQ is accepted.... wow.

You are a shining example of the horrible community Swtor will have.

Don't flame.

Infracted.

[Eroginous]

I just feel like if I am going to spend an extraordinary amount of time with the story, it has to take me out to dinner and a movie. I want to feel like there's something worth engaging into the story for. I just didn't get that after 13 levels of questing and I just started doing WZs instead. If I felt any inkling of wanting to play this game past the beta, it would most likely be for friends only and I would only level via WZs.

As it stands, most of my wow friends don't want to play this game, even after spending time in the beta like I have. Instead, I look forward to 4.3 and MoP. I will undoubtedly level at least my 4 85s to 90, probably a couple new characters, solely through quests. I've said this in many other posts, but I really wanted to get into SWTOR. It was over hyped and it really lacks a lot of what I would like in another MMO.

Games like Vindictus have what SWTOR is missing in terms of combat and game systems, and it's f2p. On topic though, the story is really just not that deep or engaging. I guess I just expected every quest To Be Of Utmost Importance And Vitality To The Ongoing War Between The Sith And The Republic.


Oh well.

[Trollsbane]

Well, at least you gave it a shot. It's not for everyone. I agree that the story isn't the most epic ever made, though I still REALLY enjoyed it. But I also didn't expect it to overwhelm like a single player game would. An MMO has to cater to too many people to do that. I'll personally hold my hopes for that kind of story for DA3, because I don't believe it will be rushed after many peoples opinions on number 2.

[Eroginous]

I've actually really enjoyed questing in wow these last two expansions. They make sure to keep a variety of quest types and add some very humorous quests in the mix. Of the 7 characters I leveled to 85 this expac, I only did maybe a dozen or so BGs between 80-85. The rest was all questing. They really hit the nail on the head with a lot of those quests.

Another game that really kinda spoiled me this year was Magicka. Being sent on a mission to save your world from an evil demon possessed warlock, while being misled into the jaws of death at every turn by your 'mentor,' was really a fun and unique RPG experience. The game is packed full of tons of pop culture references and extras that make the surprisingly deep game play just that much better.

I can sit down with that game and play through it for days (even replaying content I have already beat) but when it comes to SWTOR, I just get bored. This weekend I got an invite to the final beta. I logged in, did one warzone, and then logged off. I offered to let my friend play my account and he declined. I really hope BioWare figures out how to flesh out the game's potential.

If they do, I may start playing it again.

[zealous]

I can sit down with that game and play through it for days (even replaying content I have already beat) but when it comes to SWTOR, I just get bored. This weekend I got an invite to the final beta. I logged in, did one warzone, and then logged off. I offered to let my friend play my account and he declined. I really hope BioWare figures out how to flesh out the game's potential.

The problem with your arguments is that you keep insisting you have gauged the true nature of the storyline, while in fact that is a 100% subjective matter.

I've loved the JK story so far, the first 10 levels were slightly bland, but I couldn't tear myself away levels 11-30. I was in a frenzy to see the end of a long class quest when the announcement about server maintenance in 30 minutes went off.

Now do I force my opinion that the story is great on you? No. Why do you insist on making zero-tolerance statements like these:

On topic though, the story is really just not that deep or engaging.

That is YOUR opinion, can't you see that? Not an objective flaw of the game.

I'm a fan of certain anime series, I consider some of them have depth, yet many of my friends consider them retarded emo kiddy crap. Is that an objective truth? No, about as objective as the truth you present.

Some people love the Song of Fire and Ice book series. I tried to read those books and yet I just couldn't get into them. Yet do I run around saying it's shit? No, because that's my personal feeling about it, based on my very specific personality.

Thus, in matters of emotional enjoyment I don't presume I can speak for the quality of the product.

And saying "I offered the account to play to my friend and he refused" is just cheap. It illustrates exactly zero, yet you want to make the impression you've determined how a certain amount of people will think about this game.

You're looking forward to 4.3 and MoP? Great. I'm not. I quit WoW in Cata in sheer disappointment, after playing the game for almost 5 years and feeling no burnout. Yet do I come to the WoW general forums saying Pandarens were pulled out of Samwise's ass? No, even though I may think so. Do I think many of the features of MoP are cheap marketing ploys? Yes, yet I realize that is my biased personal view.

I ask of you only this:

Please stop repeating "this story is bland and boring" one hundred times w/o remarking that it's your personal view and that your likes/dislikes in games may influence your objectivity (as they do for all of us) . Because it sounds like you're implying it's the objective reality, and many people less familiar with forum arguments and the art of demagogy might take your words as-is.

Does TOR's story live up so far to DA and ME series in my eyes? No.

But:

1. I'm only halfway through it.
2. It's an MMORPG and not an single player RPG.
3. And even with this level of storytelling it stands high above what other MMOs (and even many other single player games) have to offer in the same field.
4. It's still immensely enjoyable to me.

I've spent 4 days immersed into this game throughout beta, and not for a single moment have I regretted pre-ordering the Collector's Edition, which cost me 150 bucks.

And the same goes for my friend (see what I did there?), who's currently sitting in the adjacent room, playing a Consular Shadow.