Warrior: Dead in PVP and FUBAR

[Jaojin]

Been playing a warrior since classic, and while I tend to stay away from pvp for the most part, I have enough of a feel for the class itself since it is the only thing I have really played for 6-7 years. That being said (bear with me please,) the reason that the pendulum seems to swing so drastically for us and why they won't straight buff us is because they are afraid of what it will do. History has proven that inconspicuous changes to our class can cause it to be dramatically overpowered, Rage is an unpredictable mechanic, and all specs of warrior scale so well with gear that they are uncertain how min/maxing our stats will affect the outcome. So they would rather leave us nerfed than make a change and have warriors end up burst destroying everything.

But it's not bias; it's fear, that drives the warrior design choices. Just felt the need to clarify that.

[Chunkyman]

Been playing a warrior since classic, and while I tend to stay away from pvp for the most part, I have enough of a feel for the class itself since it is the only thing I have really played for 6-7 years. That being said (bear with me please,) the reason that the pendulum seems to swing so drastically for us and why they won't straight buff us is because they are afraid of what it will do. History has proven that inconspicuous changes to our class can cause it to be dramatically overpowered, Rage is an unpredictable mechanic, and all specs of warrior scale so well with gear that they are uncertain how min/maxing our stats will affect the outcome. So they would rather leave us nerfed than make a change and have warriors end up burst destroying everything.

But it's not bias; it's fear, that drives the warrior design choices. Just felt the need to clarify that.

Wish they would show that fear with frost mages..

[meathead]

everyone go post this stuff on wow's forums and make them change our class now,or we change games!

[Korgoth]

Been playing a warrior since classic, and while I tend to stay away from pvp for the most part, I have enough of a feel for the class itself since it is the only thing I have really played for 6-7 years. That being said (bear with me please,) the reason that the pendulum seems to swing so drastically for us and why they won't straight buff us is because they are afraid of what it will do. History has proven that inconspicuous changes to our class can cause it to be dramatically overpowered, Rage is an unpredictable mechanic, and all specs of warrior scale so well with gear that they are uncertain how min/maxing our stats will affect the outcome. So they would rather leave us nerfed than make a change and have warriors end up burst destroying everything.

But it's not bias; it's fear, that drives the warrior design choices. Just felt the need to clarify that.

But that right there is bias. Even if you buy the fear argument, that they are intentionally making warriors weak due to being afraid they'd be too powerful; then you must also buy the argument that they are leaving mages and warlocks too strong because of fear of them being too weak if nerfed, and if that is the case, then clearly they biased in the favor of mages and locks for leaving them overpowered while leaving warriors under powered due to fear of change.

But I dont buy that fear of change argument, hot fixs are easily applied. They could put C Smash back to 100% on Tuesday, and see how the season goes with it like that for 2 weeks, if it is vastly overpowered, it would show that and they could then nerf it to 90%. This whole fear argument only works if they cant fix something after they break it, but they can, they just dont when it favors casters or disfavors warriors. Which to me is dev bias.

[Booze]

the reason that the pendulum seems to swing so drastically for us and why they won't straight buff us is because they are afraid of what it will do. History has proven that inconspicuous changes to our class can cause it to be dramatically overpowered, Rage is an unpredictable mechanic, and all specs of warrior scale so well with gear that they are uncertain how min/maxing our stats will affect the outcome. So they would rather leave us nerfed than make a change and have warriors end up burst destroying everything.

But it's not bias; it's fear, that drives the warrior design choices. Just felt the need to clarify that.

I agree with you except the "fear" part. Lol, they are professionals, not amateurs. Strategic thinking not the fear drives their actions. I agree that they will leave warriors nerfed simply because it is easier for them to deal only with the crying warrior player base, rather than dealing with ALL classes complaining about OPness of warriors. It is simply less time consuming (and cost effective) to throw cheap buffs, such as 25% MS, instead fixing our class. Simply put: warrior class and its balance it relation to other classes have an extremely low priority on their "to do" list.

[Valrax]

FINALLY! Someone who actually makes a post that knows what they are talking about. I agree with nearly everything single thing in this post 100%!

[Korgoth]

I agree with you except the "fear" part. Lol, they are professionals, not amateurs. Strategic thinking not the fear drives their actions. I agree that they will leave warriors nerfed simply because it is easier for them to deal only with the crying warrior player base, rather than dealing with ALL classes complaining about OPness of warriors. It is simply less time consuming (and cost effective) to throw cheap buffs, such as 25% MS, instead fixing our class. Simply put: warrior class and its balance it relation to other classes have an extremely low priority on their "to do" list.

That argument doesn't hold water either. Blizzard is pissing off multiple classes keeping mages as they are, so if your argument worked then they would have nerfed Mages to appease the majority of players. Yet they didnt. Now I would agree that adding in meaningful utility would be time consuming for Blizzard, but they could simply buff back up the damage to alleviate Warrior concerns, yet they leave warriors gimped.

Also the MS buff, was not an MS buff, it was a wound poison buff, and part of their plan to make Rogues dominant alongside locks and mages again. They threw in Hunters and Warriors to stop a huge shit storm with them showing their bias that obviously.

[Bearshare]

I agree with you, I think that Arms nerf from 20%-12% was a bit harsh. I feel as if our damage ouput right now is mediocre, but I still can't get over the fact that we won't change until MoP

[Deleted]

this is my first post and i will try to be gentle
so i agree with OP on all aspects of his complaints.

it is very interesting that mages have never gotten nefr or even a small attempt of nerf whole expension
and now poor fire mages MUST BE balanced some people may feel sad that fire spec is not so strong in raids LOL.
it is really sad situation to be crushed after shatter combo around 80 k dmg.
i have played 3 seasons during BC and have gladiator title in all seasons .
i would never imagine that warriors would be so crappy.
my 2 cents

[Booze]

That argument doesn't hold water either. Blizzard is pissing off multiple classes keeping mages as they are, so if your argument worked then they would have nerfed Mages to appease the majority of players. Yet they didnt. Now I would agree that adding in meaningful utility would be time consuming for Blizzard, but they could simply buff back up the damage to alleviate Warrior concerns, yet they leave warriors gimped.

Also the MS buff, was not an MS buff, it was a wound poison buff, and part of their plan to make Rogues dominant alongside locks and mages again. They threw in Hunters and Warriors to stop a huge shit storm with them showing their bias that obviously.

You can't call them "biased" per se. They are just doing their job. And their job is to develop and run a game that brings money.

Frost mage does counter other specs and classes in many ways, but they still have tools to somehow negate and deal with Mage opness. Now, problem with warriors is that neither of all 3 specs can deal with Frost mages effectively. Warriors have always been weak against mages. Development of the game into a single direction of creating more and more spells, simply put warriors into weak spot against fmages. Yeah they could buff up warriors' damage, but it is not their concern since their damage is fine pve-wise.

[0wn3d]

Also, we most certainly weren't the most op in S9. Dk's were a better warrior in every aspect. Thanks for trying though.

Did I say for a season of for a patch? Learn to read please, DKs were incredible after 4.1, but before 4.1 warriors were significantly more OP. You could only try to argue resto shaman or mages/feral druids being more OP pre 4.1, and it would be tough to argue that. 1500 warriors getting glad says something about how OP (and faceroll) they were...

[Deleted]

I like protection warr, so RBG are fine for me. For arenas I prefer the mage, great cc, great burst.

DKs and ferals stole my season.

[Chunkyman]

everyone go post this stuff on wow's forums and make them change our class now,or we change games!

Play a hunter, we posted relevant information on 4.3 about how we would be left for dead by other classes and pretty much useless. Got like 8 pages with some of the worlds best hunters and blizzard ignored it, they dont give a shit unless its their precious faceroll mages.

[Deleted]

I critted a green geared frost DK (105k hp buffed) for 12k mortal strike (with dragon soul 397 mace (3.8k top end dmg). he hit me for like 15k frost strike through 4000 resilience.

fair?

also, he soloed me and still had 75% hp left.

edit: rerolled to warlock, with shit blue gear and doing far more damage, utility, and survivability in pvp than my warrior. Retired my warrior to pve now as flag carrying is boring as hell.

[archangelz]

I critted a green geared frost DK (105k hp buffed) for 12k mortal strike (with dragon soul 397 mace (3.8k top end dmg). he hit me for like 15k frost strike through 4000 resilience.

fair?

also, he soloed me and still had 75% hp left.

edit: rerolled to warlock, with shit blue gear and doing far more damage, utility, and survivability in pvp than my warrior. Retired my warrior to pve now as flag carrying is boring as hell.

I don't care what class you are, if you can't kill someone that's in greens and has 105k health, you're the problem. Why do people like you try to argue balance in PvP when you have no idea how to even play your own class?

[aeir]

I critted a green geared frost DK (105k hp buffed) for 12k mortal strike (with dragon soul 397 mace (3.8k top end dmg). he hit me for like 15k frost strike through 4000 resilience.

fair?

also, he soloed me and still had 75% hp left.

edit: rerolled to warlock, with shit blue gear and doing far more damage, utility, and survivability in pvp than my warrior. Retired my warrior to pve now as flag carrying is boring as hell.

Then it's not the class's fault, but you're just bad at the game I guess.

And a green geared frost dk hitting 14k through 4k resi? Riiight. I don't even see why you would lie there.

And OP complaining about bladestorm not killing everything in sight like it did in s6/7, jeesh.

Warriors are not in the best spot atm, but like hunters, people are exaggerating.

[sii]

I critted a green geared frost DK (105k hp buffed) for 12k mortal strike (with dragon soul 397 mace (3.8k top end dmg). he hit me for like 15k mortal strike through 4000 resilience.

fair?

also, he soloed me and still had 75% hp left.

edit: rerolled to warlock, with shit blue gear and doing far more damage, utility, and survivability in pvp than my warrior. Retired my warrior to pve now as flag carrying is boring as hell.

I lol'd hard at this, atleast try to make it slightly realistic...

[Korgoth]

You can't call them "biased" per se. They are just doing their job. And their job is to develop and run a game that brings money.

Frost mage does counter other specs and classes in many ways, but they still have tools to somehow negate and deal with Mage opness. Now, problem with warriors is that neither of all 3 specs can deal with Frost mages effectively. Warriors have always been weak against mages. Development of the game into a single direction of creating more and more spells, simply put warriors into weak spot against fmages. Yeah they could buff up warriors' damage, but it is not their concern since their damage is fine pve-wise.

Awh cmon that is just the same crap that comes up everytime, its always been like that, they cant buff because of PVE. Those arguments are old and completely flawed. Especially since they can buff warrior damage without effecting PVE, just like they nerfed warrior damage without effecting pve, by changing C Smash back to 100% in both instead of having it nerfed in PVP only. That is only damage, let alone the large number of nerfs to warrior utility that had nothing to do with PVE, or with Warriors being Overpowered in PVP, but rather with the Developers biased feelings towards warriors. Spell Reflect was 10s for 2 expansions, and never an issue in any situation, but here comes GC's cataclysm where Warrior abilities get shit on for the f$*% of it. Like Intercept as well, and Second Wind and Blood Craze, and Bladestorm, and Shield Wall, and Shield Block... Which have minimal impact on PVE, but for some reason had to be hugely nerfed in Cata even though they werent causing warriors to not be completely sidelined S8 by spell cleave! GC's Cataclysm where a warrior ability has to be weak and pathetic if we get it at all, and it looks like GC's MoP will be the same where we get to choose from several abilities that Rogues get far better versions of baseline! 50% auto slow or 5s stun 45s cd, or roll a rogue and get a 70% auto slow and 6s stun 20s cd! Warriors get shit with this turd in charge, and the good things we did have he has gone after one after another with the nerf bat.

Bias is not part of their job, I dont even get where you think that it is, or that it is not bias that leads them to leave mages frustratingly unreasonably overpowered against warriors for a whole expansion.

[Krulani]

@ OP:
I lauged out loud at the "i miss BS taking the other team from 100 to 30% and then choosing which one to finish off" you did this in Wrath, and if this is your standard for enjoyment, you will be sorely disappointed. While I agree warrior does suffer against plate classes, compared to a FDK, take that same scenario but switch the target to a priest, warrior MS is critting way higher than Frost Strike. That's just how physical vs spell dmg INTO armor works. Deal with it, you're balanced around that idea.

Lastly, get off GC's nuts, he's responsible for 10 different classes and its highly unlikely (i.e. flatout wrong) that he would let a mage bias ruin the pvp that they are constantly trying to balance. Don't you think YOUR bias is a bit strong to be pointing fingers?

***EDIT*** also, warrior with dispels rapes mages 100% of the time. Just saying. But then again, maybe you're one of those warriors that charges before blink...

[sii]

I agree with most of what this OP as said, but not everything. There are still plenty of skilled warriors who can fuck shit up in arena at a very high rating, it's not impossible. But I do however feel that warriors have been replaced by feral druids, who currently do everything a warrior can, but alot better. Instant cyclone is the most OP pvp cc in the game.

Instant cyclone can be dispelled off the druid btw...

Stop exaggerating. It never killed everything in sight, what it did was 60-70% of life, for a 90s CD. It was a cd that forces cds, It was good and now its so crap people would rather have freedom and a damage boost over it.

Now a holy paladin could stand there and cast 1 holy light and out heal an entire bladestorm. That is unreasonably pathetic. But then thats how all Warrior abilities in GC's Cataclysm are.

1 holy light? lol? You really like to point fingers at GC... What are you hoping to accomplish with this thread on mmo-champ anyway? But keep on with the over exaggerations I guess...