Animal rights and your opinions.

[Alcomo]

So as I was doing my usual scan of the news I came across this story http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/29/us/rin...ine/index.html. To those who don't read the article Ringling Circus was slapped with a lawsuit for putting chains on their elephants when they are not performing, also for using an instrument called a bullhook which is more or less a fireplace poker.

Personally I think some of these animal rights activist are looney toons myself. Elephants are massive animals that can easily kill a human without a second thought. The chains on their legs are doing no harm to the animal beyond keeping them safely secured. The bullhook is nothing but a small, metal instrument used to direct the animal the way in which the keeper needs and would never be able to damage the animal. Elephants fight each other with massive tusks in the wild which can do a hell of a lot more damage then a human with a small metal stick.

What do you guys think about incidents like these, do you agree that it is abuse or do you feel that an animal of that size is in more harm of being hurt by a field mouse? Also if you have had any, or no of any incidents feel free to add.

[Snow White]

Elephants shouldn't even BE in a circus anyway. You know how they train elephants? They 'break them". Yeah, look it up. They beat them, deny them food and water and junk to keep them weak and depressed. I am not making this up.

You would try and break free and kill humans too if this were you.

[Alcomo]

Elephants shouldn't even BE in a circus anyway. You know how they train elephants? They 'break them". Yeah, look it up. They beat them, deny them food and water and junk to keep them weak and depressed. I am not making this up.

You would try and break free and kill humans too if this were you.

Just looked it up and what your speaking of is the breaking in of Elephants in foreign countries that use them for work. Its also something that has been done for thousands of years so they had means of transport as well as they were used for work, personally don't see anything wrong with that when its benefiting mankind in the long run. BUT circus elephants and those in zoos are bred in captivity and don't need to be broken so they don't go through the transitions as they would in say Southern Asia.

[Deleted]

Just looked it up and what your speaking of is the breaking in of Elephants in foreign countries that use them for work. Its also something that has been done for thousands of years so they had means of transport as well as they were used for work, personally don't see anything wrong with that when its benefiting mankind in the long run. BUT circus elephants and those in zoos are bred in captivity and don't need to be broken so they don't go through the transitions as they would in say Southern Asia.

You do realize that what they're doing is like breaking slaves? So they wouldn't do things the masters wouldn't want them to?

[Reyzzz]

You do realize that what they're doing is like breaking slaves? So they wouldn't do things the masters wouldn't want them to?

Did an elephant file a complaiment to you, or why do you care?

[Deleted]

Did an elephant file a complaiment to you, or why do you care?

They can cry :/

[Alcomo]

You do realize that what they're doing is like breaking slaves? So they wouldn't do things the masters wouldn't want them to?

I completely realize that, but why should man have to suffer when they could use an animal for their work. The same arguments can be said for horses. They were(and still are) broken, used for work, then put down when they become useless.

[Deleted]

Not saying that they can't use animals, but they don't have to break them.

[Deleted]

Why don't you start with human rights first?

[PKxFreeze]

I don't understand why everyone is so concerned about animal rights. We are the superior being, and thus, we should be able to do what we want with them. Survival of the fittest BRAH

[Alcomo]

Not saying that they can't use animals, but they don't have to break them.

Well then how would you personally go about getting a wild elephant to help you move logs, carry large loads, and take you from point a. to b. without getting gored or trampled?

[Deleted]

Humans can easily think for themselves.

I wouldn't need to, we have machines nowadays.
But, in the olde days, i imagine there was a way to tame them without torturing them.

[Peacemoon]

To me animals are like children, and they can be just as abused and neglected and mistreated as well.

Surely anyone with any kind of moral compass worth a damn would not mistreat any animal or let them suffer, especially large and intelligent animals like elephants who are complex enough to really feel what is happening to them. The only time it is acceptable is if your survival is on the line, but not just for entertainment!

Also, I think you need to re-watch "Dumbo" :-)

[The Acrimony]

So as I was doing my usual scan of the news I came across this story http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/29/us/rin...ine/index.html. To those who don't read the article Ringling Circus was slapped with a lawsuit for putting chains on their elephants when they are not performing, also for using an instrument called a bullhook which is more or less a fireplace poker.

Personally I think some of these animal rights activist are looney toons myself. Elephants are massive animals that can easily kill a human without a second thought. The chains on their legs are doing no harm to the animal beyond keeping them safely secured. The bullhook is nothing but a small, metal instrument used to direct the animal the way in which the keeper needs and would never be able to damage the animal. Elephants fight each other with massive tusks in the wild which can do a hell of a lot more damage then a human with a small metal stick.

What do you guys think about incidents like these, do you agree that it is abuse or do you feel that an animal of that size is in more harm of being hurt by a field mouse? Also if you have had any, or no of any incidents feel free to add.

I should put some chains on your legs, and when you start to decide that you'd rather be free, I'll tell you that it's just to keep you safely secured.

[Godsmack241]

You do realize that what they're doing is like breaking slaves? So they wouldn't do things the masters wouldn't want them to?

And you do realize that an elephant isn't a human being right? An elephant may be self-aware (which not all animals are, in fact a good majority of those not in the mammal groups do not have self-awareness, but rather pure instinct, they only think "hunger" not "I am hungry" or "run" not "I should run from this thing that will kill me". This is basically proven by our knowledge of how the brain is constructed and the lack of a higher brain in most animals), but an elephant is an animal, and there are no "anti-slavery" laws for animals as far as I'm aware.

From Wikipedia:

Slavery is a system under which people are treated as property to be bought and sold, and are forced to work.

From Merrian-Webster.com:

1 : a person held in servitude as the chattel(an item of tangible moveable or immovable property except real estate and things connected with real property) of another

We do not enslave animals, as animals do not meet the qualifications of being a slave.

We are a species of 7 billion people. We cannot survive on this earth without the (forced) help of animals. There just isn't enough money or resources to build billions of robots or artificially grow millions of tons of meat every year to feed the world and continue in societal growth. In fact, look at your history. What were we before we began to use animals to plow fields and help hunt. We lived in caves and were forced to move from place to place in search of food.

To the P.E.T.A. types in this thread, think what you want, but people in this world will always use animals for labor/entertainment/companionship (is owning a pet not "enslaving" by some of these people's definitions?) and I'm always gonna eat my steak, warm and bleeding on the plate. Because I'm a human being, that's what I like, and I have the power, the right, and the privilege of doing so.

edit: Just to add, I do have a dog. I love her dearly, and I would never think of beating her, abusing her, etc.. But we don't beat our pets, we use them for companionship and a sense of being loved. But I will tell you one thing, if she were to bite the little girl across the street because the girl didn't realize it's a bad idea to put her face right in front of the dog's, well that dog that I love so much, and I would never hurt, that dog's getting put to sleep in a heartbeat. I will not be sued over an animal.

So yes, love animals, don't mistreat them, but don't delude yourself into thinking they should have the same rights as us. That's just, quite simply, crazy.

[Alcomo]

I should put some chains on your legs, and when you start to decide that you'd rather be free, I'll tell you that it's just to keep you safely secured.

You do see what is wrong with your post right? I unlike these massive beasts do not suddenly turn on people and attempt to kill them. I also don't weigh upwards of 14,000 pounds, have massive tusks and a trunk capable of ripping your arm off. Also its an animal, not a human being. There is a massive difference between the two. Believe me, if an elephant was as smart as a human he would use you in whatever manner he felt fit as well.

[Peacemoon]

You do see what is wrong with your post right? I unlike these massive beasts do not suddenly turn on people and attempt to kill them. I also don't weigh upwards of 14,000 pounds, have massive tusks and a trunk capable of ripping your arm off. Also its an animal, not a human being. There is a massive difference between the two. Believe me, if an elephant was as smart as a human he would use you in whatever manner he felt fit as well.

If elephants are well trained and well looked after they are of minimal risk to anyone. You don't shackle your dog up if a child visits do you?

[Godsmack241]

If elephants are well trained and well looked after they are of minimal risk to anyone. You don't shackle your dog up if a child visits do you?

That training you speak of is what the rest of the world calls breaking. You are contradicting yourself. Breaking an animal like an elephant can be dangerous. Don't you think if there was an easier, less dangerous way, people would have been doing that for the thousands of years we've been breaking these animals?

[Alcomo]

If elephants are well trained and well looked after they are of minimal risk to anyone. You don't shackle your dog up if a child visits do you?

Elephants are unpredictable animals just like any other, they are major risks just like any other, they need to be properly restrained just like any other unpredictable animal. And yes, a lot of people do tie up their dogs when children visit because just like any other animal they can turn on you in an instant. Also how exactly do you and other know what the animal feels? Did they tell you something the rest of the world doesn't know, including the people who work with them?

[Snow White]

I don't understand how people can justify abusing an animal for any reason.

"It makes them easier to manage when I want to use them."

How about you stop using them and let them live in the wild. This way they are free to do their thing and you aren't at risk of being trampled. Sounds like a good trade off doesn't it?