A nice guy or a jerk?

[Jagscorpion]

there's a number of reasons that someone would not look like they should get loot. For example someone building up a ranged/resto set for shaman, but staying melee because they do better damage. The idea is that while it may be well intentioned, what the op is doing is likely to result in someone who would have used the loot not getting it. (I agree that people shouldn't roll on things they won't use, I also think that should be extended to the op)

---------- Post added 2012-01-19 at 10:57 PM ----------

That didn't answer my question, was he the second highest roll? Also him going afk during loot really undermines your argument.

I thought I said it before, he was 2nd highest, and he went afk after rolling, why would that undermine the argument? He didn't realize someone was planning to take control of the rolls and try to divvy it out as they saw fit.

[Eggwolls]

But he doesn't make any other decision than than picking the 2nd highest roll.
From the same example. Let's say Player A through D can use the item.
If OP rolled D would get the item.
If OP didn't roll, D would still get the item.
Please explain what decision he made. Other than decided to roll?

And of course getting a 4 set bonus is an upgrade to not having it. But if the 2nd highest roller had a 397 item it would most likely not be an upgrade.
And there's no need to go around calling other people a retard, mkay?

Because nothing stops him from skipping over the second or third or fourth highest roller if he sees fit. Maybe the second highest roller pissed him off, but that roller was doing well in the raid and performing as expected. Since the OP is mad at the roller, he could easily decide to not give it to him.

Or, let's say you were a low dps and the OP saw this and thought "Ugh, he sucks at his class, I'm not giving him this tier."

There are many instances where the OP's and anyone's judgment can be called shady. If you honestly think he's not 'taking matters into his own hands', you are a fool. By needing on items and giving those items to those he deems fit, he is taking control of a situation he shouldn't have control over. We are not meant to go into a pug and take all the loot we can roll on and then say, "So, let's see who deserves this."

[zyx]

considering that a friend of mine lost the mace off of deathwing last night to someone doing the exact same thing as you, I count that as a very thoughtless and power-hungry move.

(person who rolled need already had mace equipped)

Either..
A: The guy who won it didn't want to give it to anyone.
B: He wanted to give it to the 2nd highest roller and your friends wasn't.
C: He wanted to give it to the 2nd highest roller who can use it and your friend couldn't.
D: He wanted to give it to whoever he seems and your friend was unlucky to not be that guy.
B and C is the OP, the rest aren't what OP does and cannot be compared.

Because nothing stops him from skipping over the second or third or fourth highest roller if he sees fit. Maybe the second highest roller pissed him off, but that roller was doing well in the raid and performing as expected. Since the OP is mad at the roller, he could easily decide to not give it to him.

Or, let's say you were a low dps and the OP saw this and thought "Ugh, he sucks at his class, I'm not giving him this tier."

There are many instances where the OP's and anyone's judgment can be called shady. If you honestly think he's not 'taking matters into his own hands', you are a fool. By needing on items and giving those items to those he deems fit, he is taking control of a situation he shouldn't have control over. We are not meant to go into a pug and take all the loot we can roll on and then say, "So, let's see who deserves this."

The other guy pissed him off:
As far as we know he doesn't do that. It would of course be a bad thing for the OP to do, but in OPs example, he don't.
Low dps:
Same as above. (Of course AFK'ers shouldn't get loot, but if someone is't perfect in a class, they should still be rewarded. Again, he would win if the OP didn't roll)
Last paragraph:
Once again, in OP's example he doesn't judge anyone. He sees their roll, checks the item they want to replace and give it to the player if it's an upgrade. See below on what I do agree with.

He decides if he thinks it's an upgrade (aka if the person "deserves" it). If he doesn't feel that piece of gear is an upgrade for the second place roll, he skips on to third place. That's difficult to understand, mkay. roflcopter

What if the second highest roll is wearing 397 but needs the 384 for his four piece, which is absolutely an upgrade? What if he's only wearing two tier pieces because it's not a dps increase until he swaps to four piece? How would the op know he needed them for four piece? What if he's purposely wearing shitty shoulders with the intent of giving them to his buddy he q'd with? What if he has heroic shoulders in his bags but is pretending it's an upgrade just so he can de it later? What if, what if, what if?

Case in point (here it is, mkay) - why are people fucking around with a system and playing god when they don't have all the details? Why are people self-righteously taking it upon themselves to judge who gets the piece of gear and who doesn't? Let rolls be rolls. If someone gets screwed over, someone gets screwed over. Let it be. Don't trot around like a saint after you have decided for 24 other people who deserves what.

If you can't even keep it to a civil disussion I'm not even gonna bother much more with you, but here goes:
If it's absolutely and upgrade like you say, then he gets it.
If he's wearing 2 pieces it's still an upgrade. It would be more when he gets 4 set. He gets it.
How would he know? He wouldn't. And it's not OPs fault,
If he's wearing shitty shoulders then as far as OP knows, it's still an upgrade and it's not the OPs fault that that guy is friend trading. If the shitty shoulder guy was 2nd highest, he would get it anyway.
Heroric shoulders: See above.

The one thing I agree with is the "Is this really an upgrade, or just a replacement that makes no change"

[Jagscorpion]

come on, read what I've written. First, how often do you stick around a long time after the loot you want has been won already? Second, as said before he WAS the 2nd highest but went to the bathroom after he clicked his roll.

edit: it seems like all the posts forget that moments after a roll has concluded, 90% of the people who rolled and didn't win leave group. How exactly are you ensuring a "fair" roll if you take loot and the intended winner has already left. (speaking of the last boss in the instance)

edit2: I don't know, maybe if he got the mace BECAUSE someone kind rolled over a prot/ret pally and gave it to him I'd be singing a different tune, but I've seen firsthand how messing with the loot can screw someone out of what they should have had, so I'm against it.

[DechCJC]

Sounds fair. If you didn't roll, the person that was likely going to win it would have won it anyway. But if by chance, some asshole who roles on gear that they really don't need (i've had players win 4 of the same item on DW then intentionally try to piss of the raid with it) gets it, the, ha, fuck them. Give it to someone who actually deserves it.

Depends what factors you're taking into account tbh, as long as it's appropriate for his gear (Talking about having multiple of the item) and he's doing 'acceptable dps' (nothing great, just nothing stupid like 8k) and hasn't been a complete twat to the raid. Seems fair in all honesty.

[Yoshimiko]

You're a jerk with a god complex, from the sounds of it.

[Paratroopa]

i remember i stopped doing LFR for a while b/c it got to a point that 90% of the ppl in there were rolling to vendor (when you're wearing normal or heroic gear, its a little obvious you dont need LFR gear). a friend of mine ran it on his rogue and a druid rolled need on 3 tier chest pieces, won them all (he already had the tier chest piece) typed "OWNED!!" in raid and then left. LFR is so full of dicks and douches that honestly, what OP did was outstandingly nice. maybe to some who could see themselves feeling cheated are mad, but honestly i think you did something very nice. i bet you anything those players werent expecting that, and you probably really made their day. who knows how long they needed that upgrade. how many times they were either screwed out of it or just didnt roll high enough. i wouldnt go making a habit out of it, because taken out of context im sure someone can report you to a GM, but for now i give you a [Paratroopa Seal of Approval] <(^-^)>

[Deleted]

seems reasonable, as long as you aren't handing it out to friends or people giving you bribes and actually giving it to be pulling their weight i have no problem with it.

[Valdigor]

A jerk move imo, no matter how nice its meant.

[Illana]

For all those people saying he's a jerk:

A position of power would not have been needed if the system wasn't broken.

Take an example of country being ruled by a tyrant:

One person stands up against him and overthrows him and removes all the things the country didn't like about the tyrant. He's still taking a position of power but people are supporting him, that's the difference.

I'll keep on rolling on stuff I don't need and give it to the deserving people who do until they fix it (which will never happen).

All the people against this kind of thing are probably ones who queue for lfr with 377 pvp blues and BoEs in their inventory to boost their ilevel.

[Gully Man]

For all those people saying he's a jerk:

A position of power would not have been needed if the system wasn't broken.

Take an example of country being ruled by a tyrant:

One person stands up against him and overthrows him and removes all the things the country didn't like about the tyrant. He's still taking a position of power but people are supporting him, that's the difference.

I'll keep on rolling on stuff I don't need and give it to the deserving people who do until they fix it (which will never happen).

All the people against this kind of thing are probably ones who queue for lfr with 377 pvp blues and BoEs in their inventory to boost their ilevel.

Wrong. I queue for both LFR raids only needing weapons from Madness of Deathwing. Guess what i do, i don't roll. Radical thought process huh?

It's not my place to become the master looter.

[Smeeh]

Why would you roll, then give the item to the 2nd highest roller?
This would basicly mean that everyone else would be mad that you rolled, instead of just, not rolling and the the 2nd highest roller win anyway...

[Stixxz]

If you truly need the item and you are going to use it, roll need.

If you are needing on an item and it's an upgrade but not really bothered if you get it, don't roll need.

No need to roll need on an item if you aren't truly going to use it,then expect a thanks from the person who rolled second highest.

[foxHeart]

If you can't even keep it to a civil disussion I'm not even gonna bother much more with you, but here goes:
If it's absolutely and upgrade like you say, then he gets it. ("absolutely" is a relative term)
If he's wearing 2 pieces it's still an upgrade. It would be more when he gets 4 set. He gets it. (Missed the point. 2nd roll is wearing 397 shoulders + two piece and plans on replacing 397 shoulders to make 4 piece, however, he only has two tier pieces equipped because it's not an upgrade til he gets four)
How would he know? He wouldn't. And it's not OPs fault, (actually, the op rolled and took a piece of gear that would have normally gone to him, so no, absolutely the op's fault for playing god)
If he's wearing shitty shoulders then as far as OP knows, it's still an upgrade and it's not the OPs fault that that guy is friend trading. If the shitty shoulder guy was 2nd highest, he would get it anyway. (only if the op decides so)
Heroric shoulders: See above.

The one thing I agree with is the "Is this really an upgrade, or just a replacement that makes no change"

Meddling. This is the point. A person takes it upon themselves to decide for an entire raid of people what gear should be given to which person. I understand the intention of wanting to be "fair" (different for everyone, btw), however, making a decision to hand out loot to those you see fit is nothing but arrogant. There is absolutely nothing else to be said here that hasn't already been said half a dozen times.

Now, if you'll excuse me I think that I'll go q for some LFR and roll need on everything then give all the gear I win to the top dpsers of my choosing. What, you don't think that's fair?

[Alta87]

Jerk move. Wanna know why?

Because someone probably noticed that you were taking stuff you didnt need, not everyone understood that you were giving it away. So you contributed to making people angry and maybe even changing their behaviour so much that they will start to ninja crap as well. Next time think with your brain and not with your heart (or ass =P )

[Deleted]

I do the same thing.

I started doing so when the trend to need, just to "/ra wts <whatever I just won> 2k gold", started. I figured, if I can help some guy get his item instead of a jerk end up with it, then I feel obligated to do so. I have only been met with happy people for doing so too. The only one complaining is the guy who, after inspecting, turns out to have the item already complaining "but you have it already?!" to which I reply "yeah and so do you, I gave it to that guy" followed by a "thanks<3" from the 2nd highest roller who I award the item, after verifying he needs it. If not, guess what, 3rd roller and so on.

As a side note, I only do this with pure classes. There's no telling if someone need an item for off spec and imo, they are perfectly entitled to that. But a hunter rolling on a bow he already has equipped for example; go figure his intentions.


The only ones to get hurt feelings are the bad guys in my eyes.

Oh, and if you are arguing that the people could insta-leave when they see they lose, then why not just state your intention in raid chat? I haven't been kicked for telling people that I need to help fair distribution. The loot system if flawed and Blizzard know that, which is why they have stated it's a work in progress with room for improvements. In the meantime, a little help from the community aren't going to hurt :P

Lastly, I'd like to mention that this is how the loot system currently works in LFR. Jerk move or not, no matter what kind of threats or harassments people throw at you, there's nothing you did wrong. You can click need, therefor, you are entitled to the loot just as much as any other. What you do with your loot is entirely up to you. Leaving it on the corpse is perfectly fine no matter how much you cry to a GM. Can't see why it shouldn't be able to be the other way around.

edit: after reading some replies I'd like to mention here as well, that I don't judge people based on where they ranked on the meter. If someone is low on the meter, then according to another logic they'd actually need the item more. I purely base it on the item level of the item slot that's in question. He could be in all greens with blue pvp items is his bag for all I care. That's an entirely different problem that I don't see ways to fix from the player side (queuing with bagged loot instead of equipped). My intention is purely to get rid of needers who want to sell/trade i.e. blackmail.

PS. Another scenario could be saying that this was jerk move because "my friend rolled for me too, and he was 2nd highest but was out-ruled because he had it already, wtf?" and to that I reply, yes, he made sure that you only got 1 roll like the rest of the people, another win for this method!

[Miralynn]

Jerk move. Nobody appointed you loot police. I hope you and everyone like you die alone in a festering rat and cockroach filled hole, betrayed by everything and everyone you've ever cared about, realizing that every time you've patted yourself on the back for being nice, you were sending yourself one step further down the road to hell.

Please don't use such offensive language. -Azshira

[Kivimetsan]

Where did this "I ROLL ON EVERYFING COS ITS PURPLEDERP" mentality come from? Why roll on something you dont need? That is the most retarded thing iv ever heard and no you're not a nice guy...

[UrCa1988]

I rolled on loot I didn't need once. I gave it to 2nd place roll, a healer pally who did a third of what I did. I cared very little how he did, all that means is he didn't heal as well as I did, and if he had, very well could've been me down there instead of him. Numbers are an arbitrary way to tell if someone did well. Who'd be more deserving: someone doing 30k on ultrax but ignoring button to pad meters (humor me here) or 20k and playing it safe in terms of HW?

[Jagscorpion]

"my friend rolled for me too, and he was 2nd highest but was out-ruled because he had it already, wtf?" and to that I reply, yes, he made sure that you only got 1 roll like the rest of the people, another win for this method!

nah, you read poorly, friend was 2nd highest, could use it, went to the bathroom because he had already rolled and the raid was over, came back to find his loot given to someone else by someone who already had it.