Healing problems on Heroic Ultraxion 25

[clavarnway]

Here are the logs for the night: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...pes&boss=55294

Here is our best attempt: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=7656&e=8023

Basically it seems like towards the end after the raid cooldowns end we just fall apart. Sometimes we lose people because they aren't topped off before an Hour, sometimes they just die to damage before the real intensive damage even starts.

Suggestions? Anything is welcome.

[Deleted]

You have no dps classes that help your healing at all like shadow priests, what keeps you from just using 6 healers?
I don't really know what the standard is for Ultraxx25HC but 5 healers seems really few to me

[Mickileet]

You have no dps classes that help your healing at all like shadow priests, what keeps you from just using 6 healers?
I don't really know what the standard is for Ultraxx25HC but 5 healers seems really few to me

Most guilds have to use 5 healers to meet the enrage timer.

[Deleted]

Are you using the bloodlust trick where DPS lust at the start and healers get a 2nd one at the end?

I assume you're doing red - disc/druid, green - holy/pally and blue - pally/pally? Why not let a pally take red (carry heals harder earlier) and a druid take green. I'm pretty sure green should be just as good if not better than red for druids, red doubles your heals whereas green doubles your heals AND spreads them through the raid. For example your druid has 30% overhealing on rejuv and 40% on lifebloom, that can be avoided if taking green. Definitely let pallies take blue always if you're not already.

Velocity has a pretty big gap between the healing done by initial application of HR and the HoT portion of it. It seems like s/he is overwriting the HR by casting it on the same person over and over again, this is wasting a huge chunk of healing. HR has to be cast on different targets. Also reforging to crit will help increase the pallie's HPS on this fight, blue buff haste caps you anyway so crit becomes more useful.

That's all I can think of for now. It should definitely be doable in your gear and comp.

[Deleted]

Most guilds have to use 5 healers to meet the enrage timer.

I know this is a bit offtopic but this is what I dislike as healer about the current way to deal with enrage timers. Instead of having the dps to push it further, the dps is constantly expecting the healers to just get to an impossible hps level so they can "slack" on their dps with 1 more . atleast thats what kept happening in my 25M guild. Dps too low? Let the healers work more.

[Dracodraco]

To the above poster: Our healers keeps asking us to drop more of them so they can get a challenge when we're done with progress. Face it, nothing about healing in Cata has been "hard" except for the first tier where mana was an actual concern. I'd expect to see ultraxion 4 healed quite soon, if it hasn't already been.

Their "best" attempt was still 30k behind the enrage, so adding another healer is not an option.
On your "best" attempt, a rogue died to hour of twilight (something they shouldn't even take dmg from). Not sure whats wrong there.
Anyway, consider substituting a resto druid for a shaman (link is a WAY better raid CD than tranq). Consider using a disc priest who smite heals untill blue spawns (for more dps).
Make sure the group that takes the seventh (5:15) soak is filled with classes that doesn't take damage - that way, your healers does not have to worry about topping them (which can distract them from the rest of the raid during the increased dmg, and lead to deaths). So 3x hunters and 2x rogues, for example. It also means no raid cds are needed for that "specific" group. Another group could be 2x mages, 1x rogue, 2x tanks (no cds needed as tanks should have their own - maybe the warrior will need a hand of sac), and the third group is rets/dps druids/dks, thinks that are DURIBLE. Throw down a barrier or a warrior shield wall + AMZ for that hour, and it should be all good.

Also, your holy paladins are horrible towards the end. Ours spikes to everything between 200-300K, yours doesn't go much higher than 150K. Tell them to spam the healer group with holy radiance (they can't get fading light, so you're 100% sure to get the full "hot" out, rather than casting it on someone who ports into the "real" realm right after casting it, or right before the cast ends), and sort their cds (volcanic potion = 1.5k spellpower or so for 25 seconds for example, everything counts).

[clavarnway]

Are you using the bloodlust trick where DPS lust at the start and healers get a 2nd one at the end?

We are doing that.

Velocity has a pretty big gap between the healing done by initial application of HR and the HoT portion of it. It seems like s/he is overwriting the HR by casting it on the same person over and over again, this is wasting a huge chunk of healing. HR has to be cast on different targets. Also reforging to crit will help increase the pallie's HPS on this fight, blue buff haste caps you anyway so crit becomes more useful.

[21:20:09.362] Velocity begins to cast Holy Radiance
[21:20:11.272] Velocity gains Holy Radiance from Velocity
[21:20:11.272] Velocity begins to cast Holy Radiance
[21:20:13.077] Velocity's Holy Radiance is refreshed by Velocity
[21:20:13.077] Velocity begins to cast Holy Radiance
[21:20:14.587] Velocity's Holy Radiance is refreshed by Velocity
[21:20:16.107] Velocity begins to cast Holy Radiance
[21:20:17.705] Velocity's Holy Radiance is refreshed by Velocity
[21:20:19.299] Velocity begins to cast Holy Radiance
[21:20:19.901] Velocity's Holy Radiance is refreshed by Velocity

He is refreshing the same one...so that's not good?

That's all I can think of for now. It should definitely be doable in your gear and comp.

We've gotten very close, 2.6% or something stupid like that. Maybe even less. The healing at the end is just not enough.

---------- Post added 2012-01-19 at 01:01 AM ----------

Their "best" attempt was still 30k behind the enrage, so adding another healer is not an option.
On your "best" attempt, a rogue died to hour of twilight (something they shouldn't even take dmg from). Not sure whats wrong there.
Anyway, consider substituting a resto druid for a shaman (link is a WAY better raid CD than tranq). Consider using a disc priest who smite heals untill blue spawns (for more dps).
Make sure the group that takes the seventh (5:15) soak is filled with classes that doesn't take damage - that way, your healers does not have to worry about topping them (which can distract them from the rest of the raid during the increased dmg, and lead to deaths). So 3x hunters and 2x rogues, for example. It also means no raid cds are needed for that "specific" group. Another group could be 2x mages, 1x rogue, 2x tanks (no cds needed as tanks should have their own - maybe the warrior will need a hand of sac), and the third group is rets/dps druids/dks, thinks that are DURIBLE. Throw down a barrier or a warrior shield wall + AMZ for that hour, and it should be all good.

When I said best I meant farthest, not best performance. People definitely messed up.

Thank you for the advice.

[Deleted]

He is refreshing the same one...so that's not good?

It's very bad, I can guarantee you during the last minute in burst healing s/he would gain at LEAST 30% more heals if he didn't do this. That's being conservative.

With blue buff, bloodlust and divine favor s/he will have so much haste that HR will tick much more often. The HoT portion of it will likely do more healing the initial heal itself, so overwriting (and wasting) the HoT portion is sacrificing a huge chunk of heals. That alone might make or break it for you.

Also Volcanic Potions for holy pallies in the last minute if you don't already use them.

[KaPe]

Well, judging by your healer composition, you really don't have that many cooldowns available. Respec that Holy into Disc - not only you can get some extra damage through Atonement, but Glyphed Barrier is the best healing cooldown there is and will easily give you more benefit than Divine Hymn. Plus, nothing stops you from using your own Hymn - it might not be all that great as holy, but with Red it still does a bit of healing, while making your other healers do more. You simply have too many pure healing cooldowns and not enough damage reduction.

As for Pallies - another 'trick' they have is using Gurdians with all possible cooldowns and pamming Divine Light on someone with +healing buff (either blood dk or feral tank set bonus). Might not seem like much, but it can reach up to 1.5/2mln healing spread across the raid, quite decent stuff. You are using your Feral dps'ers to give you Mass Regen, right? Especially if they can get tank buff, 40sec of +healing makes enormous difference.

I assume you're doing red - disc/druid, green - holy/pally and blue - pally/pally? Why not let a pally take red (carry heals harder earlier) and a druid take green.

Efflo double dips in red, making them use Green would just waste this advantage entirely.

[clavarnway]

You are using your Feral dps'ers to give you Mass Regen, right? Especially if they can get tank buff, 40sec of +healing makes enormous difference.

Thank you for the advice. About this, yes our feral is using 4pc at the last part of the fight. But we couldn't figure out how to get him tank buff. Is it still possible?

[Deleted]

Efflo double dips in red, making them use Green would just waste this advantage entirely.

Didn't know this, if that's true then yeah for sure do druid on red.

[ThatInternet]

get rid of your 2 hunters at the bottom and add a shadowpriest and an enhance shaman

[Deleted]

TIL not to spam HR on the same target, Thank you Internet.

How are you chaning CDs at the end?

Make sure your best soakers take the 1st 4th and 7th eg rogues / hunters that way the last HoT will not require healing. If your tanks have 4set you can chain 2 tank cds along with 3 tranq's. No shaman for totem tho.

Im pretty sure Shattering throw does not have a 6min cd... Use 2 at the start and then 2 at the end...

If your not doing it already have your feral (if he has 4set) start on bearform so he gets the tank buff aswell. You can use that as an extra CD.

[traen]

Here are the logs for the night: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...pes&boss=55294

Here is our best attempt: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=7656&e=8023

Basically it seems like towards the end after the raid cooldowns end we just fall apart. Sometimes we lose people because they aren't topped off before an Hour, sometimes they just die to damage before the real intensive damage even starts.

Suggestions? Anything is welcome.

Get better healers. Or teach your current ones to heal properly. Obviously they should leave all cooldowns for last minute of the fight. Rotate your cooldowns, you have massive amount of cooldowns that can be used. Make your feral go bear for 15 seconds and give raid 30% healing buff (not healing itself but a +30% healing buff from glyph of frenzied regeneration)

Don't do stupid things like this

[21:25:25.141] Lohkán casts Rebirth on Burble

5-th minute of the fight. Everyone in raid gets 50k damage per second. And your healer casts rebirth on someone? This situation should never happen.

Your druids wild grows uptime sucks. Your druids rejuvination uptime sucks. Lifebloom on tank? I guess they never heard about it.
Your paladin is spaming Holy Radiance on the same target over and over. What a failure And he is still top healer because paladins are too OP, even if they don't know how to play their class properly.

The only healer that is doing somewhat good is your priest, but priests got the lowest hps out of all classes on this fight(well, on all fights tbh), so he can't do the healing alone.

Tell your healers to go to their class forums and ask for an advise because its abvious that they have a lot to discover about how to heal with their class.

Your raid dps is fine btw. All that holds you from kill is your healers. Tell them that a lot of top guilds killed Ultraxion heroic with just 4 healers. And they were in 391 gear.

[KaPe]

Thank you for the advice. About this, yes our feral is using 4pc at the last part of the fight. But we couldn't figure out how to get him tank buff. Is it still possible?

It still works, just have them be in bear form when Thrall casts his buff. Makes it much easier to soak Hour of Twilight, too, since they can use Survival Instinct every time. Sure it lowers their dps, but it's not like ferals are your main damage dealers anyway - and if they are, you have bigger problems than healing.

[clavarnway]

Here are the buffs people were getting last night (sorry for lateness):

GT (Resto Druid), Fuji (Disc Priest) - red
Velocity (Holy Pally) Sazaa (Holy Pally) - blue
velocity (before blue), Suzu (Holy Priest) - green

I think Fuji is going to go Holy tonight instead of Disc though. Not sure how buffs will be assigned then.

[thehordemage]

The first thing I noticed from your logs is your healers didn't deal any damage on your best attempt. On the first couple weeks of Heroic Ultraxion progression most guilds had ~8mil damage from their healers over the course of the fight. You can probably get at least 4mil damage from your smiting priest + druid before they really need to focus on heals.

[Deleted]

I know this is a bit offtopic but this is what I dislike as healer about the current way to deal with enrage timers. Instead of having the dps to push it further, the dps is constantly expecting the healers to just get to an impossible hps level so they can "slack" on their dps with 1 more . atleast thats what kept happening in my 25M guild. Dps too low? Let the healers work more.

Is this guy for real?

[clavarnway]

Got the kill! Thanks for all the advice, I talked to all the healers and they really helped make it a kill.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=5516&e=5879

[Deleted]

What is best setup with cristals on 25man heroic utraxion.
Our healers is
1.Holy paladin -
2. Holy paladin -
3. Resto Shaman -
4. Disco priest -
5. Disco priest -