[Megathread] Mass Effect 3

[Akal575]

In mass effect 3 my romance was with Ashley (since ME1). For the final mission I chose her (Ashley) and Javik as my 2 squad mates.

During the final mission when you make it right before the beam that takes you to the citadel, you must make a full on sprint with your squad and Hammer team to make it to the beam, while dodging the reapers' insta-kill lasers. As per the indoctrination theory floating around, the point right after Shepard wakes up after getting nearly hit by the laser is when the supposed "dream sequence" starts and everything from that point forward is really going on in Shepard's mind.

Now to the part that I feel adds strong evidence to the indoctrination theory. Whichever of the 3 choices you pick at the end with the "star child"' you see the corresponding cut scene that goes with each choice. With each different selection, you see some variation of the Normandy landing on a planet and some of your squad stepping out.

In my case, I chose the synthesis option (Middle option), and during the cut scene, ASHLEY walks out of the Normandy. How did she go from being on the front lines with me, and making the full on sprint attempt to the beam where everyone supposedly gets "decimated" (minus Shepard and Anderson), to being on the Normandy, unscathed?! Last we saw Joker/The Normandy was when the mission started and he was supposed to be rejoining the rest of the fleet in battle after getting the team close enough to fly down.

The only way I can make any sense of this is that this indoctrination theory is true.

Did anyone else notice this? Did you take with you on the final mission the person you romanced, and did they then appear in the cutscenes walking out of the Normandy? Try it yourself and see. If so it just further proves that everything that occurred after Shepard regained consciousness from nearly getting hit by the reaper-laser was in fact all in his mind and him fighting off the indoctrination.

[Alexandyr]

Someone had this as a sig before I warned them it was too big (118 phrases)

Yeah, I found that on the bsn and didn't think about the file size.... Still, it's pretty damn amazing. =D

[Deleted]

In mass effect 3 my romance was with Ashley (since ME1). For the final mission I chose her (Ashley) and Javik as my 2 squad mates.

During the final mission when you make it right before the beam that takes you to the citadel, you must make a full on sprint with your squad and Hammer team to make it to the beam, while dodging the reapers' insta-kill lasers. As per the indoctrination theory floating around, the point right after Shepard wakes up after getting nearly hit by the laser is when the supposed "dream sequence" starts and everything from that point forward is really going on in Shepard's mind.

Now to the part that I feel adds strong evidence to the indoctrination theory. Whichever of the 3 choices you pick at the end with the "star child"' you see the corresponding cut scene that goes with each choice. With each different selection, you see some variation of the Normandy landing on a planet and some of your squad stepping out.

In my case, I chose the synthesis option (Middle option), and during the cut scene, ASHLEY walks out of the Normandy. How did she go from being on the front lines with me, and making the full on sprint attempt to the beam where everyone supposedly gets "decimated" (minus Shepard and Anderson), to being on the Normandy, unscathed?! Last we saw Joker/The Normandy was when the mission started and he was supposed to be rejoining the rest of the fleet in battle after getting the team close enough to fly down.

The only way I can make any sense of this is that this indoctrination theory is true.

Did anyone else notice this? Did you take with you on the final mission the person you romanced, and did they then appear in the cutscenes walking out of the Normandy? Try it yourself and see. If so it just further proves that everything that occurred after Shepard regained consciousness from nearly getting hit by the reaper-laser was in fact all in his mind and him fighting off the indoctrination.

http://i.imgur.com/YE0qV.jpg

Playing again for a fully prepared run and I want to punch whoever made the ending everytime I do something...

[Deleted]

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...essa230751.png
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...essa231251.png
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...essa230717.png

Tossing my screenshots from Twitter again since this still seems to make people wonder... They're NOT planning on changing the current ending(s). They're adding addiotional content (=DLC) to fill in the plotholes and to give people closure and clarification. The endings are staying the way they were, they're not thinking about changing the core game.

[Nerraw]

"Shepard is now a legend! Continue playing with DLC!" How were their hands forced?

I meant in regards to the massive outcry and rabid hate.

---------- Post added 2012-03-24 at 10:17 AM ----------

Still wrong.

The Citadel has controls for Mass Relays. It was stated, either by Vigil, or in the books, that several relays are laying dormant by the Council because they don't want another Rachni-like situation again.

You don't need the Citadel to activate inactive relays. Humanity activated several relays recklessly before they had any idea there were other alien species around.

[Deleted]

They built the Citadel - it hasn't moved any. It doesn't orbit any stars, it just rotates, and that's what simulates the gravity. After AT LEAST 37 million years of conquests (I'm basing this off the oldest known source, the Derelict Reaper, which was 37 million years old, we're possibly looking at hundreds of millions) I doubt they'd forget the location.

Sovereign had no problem bringing in the entire Geth fleet on his first assault on the Citadel. Same with sending in the entire combined fleet that Shepard had built up when they began the Earth offensive at the end of the game. Not to mention the Reapers created the relays, I'm sure they're quite aware of the limitations.

Reapers are primarily vulnerable when either A. their kinetic barriers are down (Sovereign) or when their shields over the guns are opened up, not including SpaceMagic Thanix cannons. We saw this on Palaven when dozens of Turian dreadnoughts only took down a handful of destroyers and a couple capital ships. We're talking about the biggest Dreadnought fleet in the galaxy and they only took down a handful of Capital ships, and that was a planned attack. Alliance fleets were still on Earth. The entire 2nd, 3rd and 5th fleets were demolished by a DOZEN Capital ships. And the Citadel fleet is built up of very few dreadnoughts (basically, the Destiny Ascension is their ace-in-the-hole and Sovereign almost destroyed that one BY HIMSELF). There's no way a group of ragtag fighters and destroyers could have stopped even a couple Capital ships.

It's a glaring hole. I'm just going to go with suspension of disbelief because if they took the Citadel, there wouldn't be a game.

You can't just know where something is in an empty space. Humans now can't even locate entire planets near the nearest stars without measuring the stars light, the nebula was most likely bigger than the distance between sun and the nearest star. They are huge and the citadel is not the size of the planet but a small asteroid. The fact that the reapers built it doesn't mean anything, it was meant to respond to their signal, they just didn't have a plan B.

Sovereign doesn't count, like I said, he had Saren, who knew the location of the Citadel, being spectre and all, he also brought a fleet of geth ships to draw fire away from him, so he wasn't alone and the council races didn't have the space magic cannons yet. If they had come one by one, they would have get focus fired by all the ships at the citadel(I'm guessing Shepard gathered them there but even if not, it still had lots of ships guarding it). Sure, they might have still won this way but why risk it? The Citadel wasn't even that important in ME3 for the reapers, the element of surprise was gone, all the races had already banded together, losing the citadel wouldn't have left anyone in the dark about the reapers any more.

[Deleted]

You can't just know where something is in an empty space. Humans now can't even locate entire planets near the nearest stars without measuring the stars light, the nebula was most likely bigger than the distance between sun and the nearest star. They are huge and the citadel is not the size of the planet but a small asteroid. The fact that the reapers built it doesn't mean anything, it was meant to respond to their signal, they just didn't have a plan B.

Sovereign doesn't count, like I said, he had Saren, who knew the location of the Citadel, being spectre and all, he also brought a fleet of geth ships to draw fire away from him, so he wasn't alone and the council races didn't have the space magic cannons yet. If they had come one by one, they would have get focus fired by all the ships at the citadel(I'm guessing Shepard gathered them there but even if not, it still had lots of ships guarding it). Sure, they might have still won this way but why risk it? The Citadel wasn't even that important in ME3 for the reapers, the element of surprise was gone, all the races had already banded together, losing the citadel wouldn't have left anyone in the dark about the reapers any more.

The Reapers also have thousands of indoctrinated agents on not only the attacked planets but in the Citadel itself...

Or they could you know, follow the huge stream of refugee ships if they cant remember how to find a several kilometer long space station in the centre of the relay system that they built themselves.

The Citadel had records of population/location of almost all the colonies in Citadel space (other than secret ones for each race, which is one of the strengths of this cycle Jarvik comments on)

[Deleted]

The Reapers also have thousands of indoctrinated agents on not only the attacked planets but in the Citadel itself...

Or they could you know, follow the huge stream of refugee ships if they cant remember how to find a several kilometer long space station in the centre of the relay system that they built themselves.

The Citadel had records of population/location of almost all the colonies in Citadel space (other than secret ones for each race, which is one of the strengths of this cycle Jarvik comments on)

The refugees and others don't go there by just flying there, they use the mass relay next to the citadel which is probably heavily defended. A several KM long space station is a tiny spec in space and there is just no way to detect it from a distance. Even if the reapers knew where the nebula was, which they probably did, they couldn't just locate the Citadel in it, it wouldn't stand still inside it and the proportions of the nebula itself change over time.

[Deleted]

The refugees and others don't go there by just flying there, they use the mass relay next to the citadel which is probably heavily defended. A several KM long space station is a tiny spec in space and there is just no way to detect it from a distance. Even if the reapers knew where the nebula was, which they probably did, they couldn't just locate the Citadel in it, it wouldn't stand still inside it and the proportions of the nebula itself change over time.

Defended by whom? The Council races are pretty busy trying to defend their homeworlds and the Alliance forces are busy defending/gathering resources for the Crucible.

I think it's also safe to say that the Reapers don't care much for defences, they smashed the Turian orbital defences and seemed to face off what looked like the bulk of the Turian fleet with 12 Capital ships.

They AT LEAST had TOP level Batarian government officials indoctrinated, who would have easily known the exact position of the Citadel.

Thanix Cannons are hardly space magic, and can be shot apart by reaper anti-missile defences from a distance.

[Kaneiac]

The refugees and others don't go there by just flying there, they use the mass relay next to the citadel which is probably heavily defended. A several KM long space station is a tiny spec in space and there is just no way to detect it from a distance. Even if the reapers knew where the nebula was, which they probably did, they couldn't just locate the Citadel in it, it wouldn't stand still inside it and the proportions of the nebula itself change over time.

As I stated, the defenses were mobilizing for the invasion.

How many times do I need to state it? The Vanguard force on Earth alone decimated Arcturus Station and wiped out 3 entire fleets. The bulk of the Turian Fleet, the biggest in the galaxy, was wiped out by a dozen capital ships. It's why the Crucible was being built - we had absolutely no chance in HELL without it. A dozen capital ships were wiping out entire fleets. And there are HUNDREDS of Capital ships.

"Strategically located at the junction of a number of mass relays leading to various parts of the galaxy, the Citadel quickly became a hub of activity."

Even IF they couldn't use the mass relays, the Citadel hasn't moved. Ever. If it did, you're saying the Asari, before they discovered it, just wandered around the Serpent Nebula until they found it?

If you're saying the Reapers suddenly forgot where the FUCK they put their own fucking creation, then you're hopeless. It'd be akin to them setting up a mousetrap and then all of a sudden forgetting where they put it. The whole POINT of the relay system is to flood the races to the Citadel, then the Reapers swoop in, cut them off and methodically exterminate them.

They know that Earth is the stronghold of the Humans and that's why they put the tip of the spear there, but they don't know where the Citadel is.

Right.

And EVEN THEN, that doesn't explain why they STILL didn't shut down the relays when they had control of the Citadel over Earth. They knew the Crucible would be coming, but fuck it, let's leave the relays open anyways and let ALL of these fleets through! It'll be fun!

The Reapers are a retarded enemy in this game. I'm kinda tired of people who either don't remember things that happened in ME1 or are willfully ignoring them.

The Citadel wasn't even that important in ME3 for the reapers, the element of surprise was gone, all the races had already banded together, losing the citadel wouldn't have left anyone in the dark about the reapers any more.

For the 14th time, because it grants control & charts the mass relay system. It's not about "keeping races in the dark" - it's about absolutely stranding them. Think of it like a conventional ground war - what happens when you cut off supply lines? It completely kills the war effort & turns it into attrition. The Reapers know this game - it's what they were made for. But they just retard around and completely ignore it.

I do enjoy how you're cherry picking certain arguments and leaving others alone, though.

[OrcsRLame]

As I stated, the defenses were mobilizing for the invasion.

How many times do I need to state it? The Vanguard force on Earth alone decimated Arcturus Station and wiped out 3 entire fleets. The bulk of the Turian Fleet, the biggest in the galaxy, was wiped out by a dozen capital ships. It's why the Crucible was being built - we had absolutely no chance in HELL without it. A dozen capital ships were wiping out entire fleets. And there are HUNDREDS of Capital ships.

"Strategically located at the junction of a number of mass relays leading to various parts of the galaxy, the Citadel quickly became a hub of activity."

Even IF they couldn't use the mass relays, the Citadel hasn't moved. Ever. If you're saying the Reapers suddenly forgot where the FUCK they put their own fucking creation, then you're hopeless. They know that Earth is the stronghold of the Humans and that's why they put the tip of the spear there, but they don't know where the Citadel is.

Right.

And EVEN THEN, that doesn't explain why they STILL didn't shut down the relays when they had control of the Citadel over Earth. They knew the Crucible would be coming, but fuck it, let's leave the relays open anyways and let ALL of these fleets through! It'll be fun!

The Reapers are a retarded enemy in this game. I'm kinda tired of people who either don't remember things that happened in ME1 or are willfully ignoring them.

Yeah, if you think about it, the Reapers could have shut down mass relays, then just played keep away with the Citadel. I 100% see your point. Reapers have faster FTL drives than us, so they could have literally just flown the Citadel away from our fleets, and picked at us with 100+ destroyers at a time. After a couple months at most, our forces would have been shit on so badly the Reapers could turn the relays back on, and just mop up what's left.

Also, Reaper AI is like a bazillion times more advanced than our modern day computers. Even if the Mass Effect universe works off the theory that the universe is expanding constantly, so that the Citadel's location does change, they should easily be able to calculate that, considering our modern day computers could do that easily.

[Kaneiac]

Yeah, if you think about it, the Reapers could have shut down mass relays, then just played keep away with the Citadel. I 100% see your point. Reapers have faster FTL drives than us, so they could have literally just flown the Citadel away from our fleets, and picked at us with 100+ destroyers at a time. After a couple months at most, our forces would have been shit on so badly the Reapers could turn the relays back on, and just mop up what's left.

Also, Reaper AI is like a bazillion times more advanced than our modern day computers. Even if the Mass Effect universe works off the theory that the universe is expanding constantly, so that the Citadel's location does change, they should easily be able to calculate that, considering our modern day computers could do that easily.

My only explanation, and I'm okay with it - is that it's just down to gameplay. As I stated, if the Reapers went to the Citadel first and methodically wiped out each system, 1 at a time, well...Shepard wouldn't have been able to really do anything except sit in the Normandy and fly in circles at FTL.

I'm willing to believe it, but they didn't explain WHY they didn't go through with that plan. Why not add something in, like, I dunno, the Asari sabotaged the Citadel controls or something?

Instead it's completely unanswered.

[Deleted]

The reason they did'nt go for the citadel, is that this time the galaxy is not ruled by a single race and the citadel is not the headquarter of the military organization. They did'nt think they had to take the citadel to isolate systems because each system was ruled by a single race, and they expected, rightfully at first, that each would try to protect it's own homeworld.

And the Cerberus attack on the citadel is made through an Indoctrinated TIM : Reapers. At the second they realise that Citadel is the Catalyst they immediatly take it with ease.

[Deleted]

The reason they did'nt go for the citadel, is that this time the galaxy is not ruled by a single race and the citadel is not the headquarter of the military organization. They did'nt think they had to take the citadel to isolate systems because each system was ruled by a single race, and they expected, rightfully at first, that each would try to protect it's own homeworld.

And the Cerberus attack on the citadel is made through an Indoctrinated TIM : Reapers. At the second they realise that Citadel is the Catalyst they immediatly take it with ease.

They go out of their way to destroy refuelling stations when they're the only thing in the system in order to cripple resistance.

The Citadel is THE main refuge for all the races, co-ordinating everything and providing support.

[Duncanîdaho]

My only explanation, and I'm okay with it - is that it's just down to gameplay. As I stated, if the Reapers went to the Citadel first and methodically wiped out each system, 1 at a time, well...Shepard wouldn't have been able to really do anything except sit in the Normandy and fly in circles at FTL.

I'm willing to believe it, but they didn't explain WHY they didn't go through with that plan. Why not add something in, like, I dunno, the Asari sabotaged the Citadel controls or something?

Instead it's completely unanswered.

Only thing I can think of is since they couldn't start at the Citadel with a surprise attack maybe they were planning on doing the reverse. Chase everyone to the hub, rather then start at the hub and slowly work your way out. They pop out at every major species home world, harvest it and chase them off with fear. Guess where 90% of the survivors run to? To the Citadel as refugees, or closer to it. The longer they wait and push the main planets, the more people they force to that 'safe' area. Then they hit it when the galaxy's forces are spread across their various home star systems and its left relatively undefended, with a massive civilian overpopulation. It would be a Reapers dream. Why cut them off and take centuries to do something with attrition when they will group up nicely for you if you let them and kill them in half the time. When the illusive man tipped the reapers off about the crucible, they had to attack it early and messed this system up

Also keep in mind in the thousands of years that the reapers have been doing this, they have never once broken their pattern. Shepard(with help from the Protheans) did this in ME1 as you know. This forced the reapers for the first time in their history to think on their feet, not have something planned years in advance. This allows for them to make mistakes as this obviously was one for them.

It almost feels like they panicked at the fact that Shepard was able to kill one of them and stop their plans on 3 occasions prior to ME3. As well as probably the fact that this cycles termination was already way overdue. It seems like they wanted to annihilate this cycle as fast as possible because they had never scene such rebellion before. It seems like they were just like,"K I've had enough, F*** this cycle, lets just blow it the hell up." Which is odd because they are machines.

Shutting down the relays causes centuries of attrition warfare like with the Protheans, I don't think the reapers wanted it to go that long since they did not have the element of surprise this time. They were also under the impression I think that the entire galaxy had already been mobilizing against them for years and would have the citadel more defended then the various worlds. Of course that didn't pan out because no one believed Shepard, but the Reapers probably did not know that.

I'm honestly with you in your opinion that they should of hit there first but that's the best argument I could think of why they did not.

[Deleted]

Since I'm currently playing through the Project: Overlord on Mass Effect 2 I have some questions considering the effects on Mass Effect 3! I don't actually recall anyone answering these yet so might as well ask again.

1) If you choose to let Cerberus/TIM continue on Project: Overlord, how does that affect ME3? I've never been able to leave David to the condition he was put in so I know what happens if you decide to save him. I'd imagine that's a big boost to Cerberus or something?
2) And I'm also curious about the effects if you decide to let TIM keep the human Reaper. Again, never been able to bring myself not to destroy it so I'm a bit clueless. I know Cerberus and TIM dig up the pieces that are still left of the human Reaper if you chose to destroy it, but I was wondering if there's a bigger impact if you don't blow it to bits.

[Mordin Solus]

rofl

[rol3x]

you make it sound as though the reapers feel the way organics do, they don't feel fear panic or any of the other things you mention. They may have adjusted their approach but they were still unbeatable in a conventional sense, if anything they saw that there was a plan in motion to defeat them and they took means to prevent it nothing more.

[Nerraw]

I find it funny, and quite a bit sad, how many of the games' lessons and morals are completely ignored and forgotten by the majority of the vocal fanbase. Javik's viewpoints on the galaxy in his cycle are uncanningly familiar to how humanity operates today. >.>

[Deleted]

As I stated, the defenses were mobilizing for the invasion.

How many times do I need to state it? The Vanguard force on Earth alone decimated Arcturus Station and wiped out 3 entire fleets. The bulk of the Turian Fleet, the biggest in the galaxy, was wiped out by a dozen capital ships. It's why the Crucible was being built - we had absolutely no chance in HELL without it. A dozen capital ships were wiping out entire fleets. And there are HUNDREDS of Capital ships.

"Strategically located at the junction of a number of mass relays leading to various parts of the galaxy, the Citadel quickly became a hub of activity."

Even IF they couldn't use the mass relays, the Citadel hasn't moved. Ever. If it did, you're saying the Asari, before they discovered it, just wandered around the Serpent Nebula until they found it?

If you're saying the Reapers suddenly forgot where the FUCK they put their own fucking creation, then you're hopeless. It'd be akin to them setting up a mousetrap and then all of a sudden forgetting where they put it. The whole POINT of the relay system is to flood the races to the Citadel, then the Reapers swoop in, cut them off and methodically exterminate them.

They know that Earth is the stronghold of the Humans and that's why they put the tip of the spear there, but they don't know where the Citadel is.

Right.

And EVEN THEN, that doesn't explain why they STILL didn't shut down the relays when they had control of the Citadel over Earth. They knew the Crucible would be coming, but fuck it, let's leave the relays open anyways and let ALL of these fleets through! It'll be fun!

The Reapers are a retarded enemy in this game. I'm kinda tired of people who either don't remember things that happened in ME1 or are willfully ignoring them.



For the 14th time, because it grants control & charts the mass relay system. It's not about "keeping races in the dark" - it's about absolutely stranding them. Think of it like a conventional ground war - what happens when you cut off supply lines? It completely kills the war effort & turns it into attrition. The Reapers know this game - it's what they were made for. But they just retard around and completely ignore it.

I do enjoy how you're cherry picking certain arguments and leaving others alone, though.

The Asari got there by using the relay, they didn't fly there on ships using FTL. And of course it has moved. Everything in the galaxy moves. Besides it's a "tiny" space station in the middle of nowhere, a passing star or even ships docking it move it a little and after 50k years (although probably millions of years since the Reapers didn't have any need to go there by other means before) it can move quite a bit. The relay everyone else uses to get to the citadel just moves with it.
I'm pretty sure the ME1 codex even mentioned that it was nearly impossible to get to the Citadel by just passing through the nebula.

Oh and the reapers aren't retarded at all, everything they do is incomprehensible to mortals. Taking the Citadel later was a well calculated strategic move that paid off. Maybe they actually wanted to have the Catalyst installed on the Citadel. Nothing about them is really explained. Well, the destroy ending kinda sucks for them but that's probably because they didn't knows Shepard might actually go for it and sacrifice pretty much everything in the entire galaxy and still wouldn't solve anything.

The god child didn't just kill Shepard either, maybe it was the reapers plan all along to test the sentient life or something. If they can band together, build the Catalyst and reach the special place in the citadel, they are worthy of being spared or something.