[Megathread] Mass Effect 3

[Deleted]

The Asari got there by using the relay, they didn't fly there on ships using FTL. And of course it has moved. Everything in the galaxy moves. Besides it's a "tiny" space station in the middle of nowhere, a passing star or even ships docking it move it a little and after 50k years (although probably millions of years since the Reapers didn't have any need to go there by other means before) it can move quite a bit. The relay everyone else uses to get to the citadel just moves with it.
I'm pretty sure the ME1 codex even mentioned that it was nearly impossible to get to the Citadel by just passing through the nebula.

This reply to that will be a spoiler to everyone who hasn't bought the DLC, so I'll use the spoiler tags, but it is directly towards the reapers and the citadel:
If you ask Javik a bit you'll get to know that he's never seen the citadel because IN THEIR CYCLE THE REAPERS TOOK CONTROL OF IT. And that was long before he was born, so it's safe to assume that the citadel hasn't moved much (if at all) from the time the reapers last controlled it.

Oh and the reapers aren't retarded at all, everything they do is incomprehensible to mortals. Taking the Citadel later was a well calculated strategic move that paid off. Maybe they actually wanted to have the Catalyst installed on the Citadel. Nothing about them is really explained. Well, the destroy ending kinda sucks for them but that's probably because they didn't knows Shepard might actually go for it and sacrifice pretty much everything in the entire galaxy and still wouldn't solve anything.

Well yeah, looks like a great idea... well, the destroy-ending kinda fucks them over, like "here, we'll help you kill us!"...
And the control ending... well, still not entirely sure who takes control of what and how that works... but also ends the cycle and thereby defeats their reason of existence.
Same goes for the Synthesis-ending, defeats the purpose of the reapers, at least what we were told by the god child. If you mix organics and synthetics... well... how exactly does that solve anything? Wouldn't they still have to continue the cycle until only pure synthetics were left, because otherwise the "mix" could build new synthetics that would, according to god child-thinking, definitely kill their creators.
So all three endings go directly against reaper-philosophy... so one can pretty much say that the reapers shouldn't have wanted to give their enemy such a huge advantage...

Oh and the catalyst IS the citadel, it wasn't made the catalyst by the reapers, it was implemented into the crucible-strategy by whatever race that thought of it. They probably thought something like "well, the citadel can do some kind of crazy stuff, could we use that to kill the reapers?" and found the answer to be "yes".

The god child didn't just kill Shepard either, maybe it was the reapers plan all along to test the sentient life or something. If they can band together, build the Catalyst and reach the special place in the citadel, they are worthy of being spared or something.

That may very well be possible... they would've had to adapt to the changes made with the catalyst-plans, because it wasn't there from the beginning... but yeah, that might be possible, all speculation though. AI isn't really known for changing it's mind out of whim, but maybe the reapers are different, who knows >_>

[Nerraw]

The god child didn't just kill Shepard either, maybe it was the reapers plan all along to test the sentient life or something. If they can band together, build the Catalyst and reach the special place in the citadel, they are worthy of being spared or something.

This was actually one of my first thoughts as well. He says outright that Shepard is the first organic to have made it that far, and that the premise the cycle was built on has changed.

[Xeones]

I find it funny, and quite a bit sad, how many of the games' lessons and morals are completely ignored and forgotten by the majority of the vocal fanbase. Javik's viewpoints on the galaxy in his cycle are uncanningly familiar to how humanity operates today. >.>

I'm not sure what you're getting at? Sad that people are so upset over the ending they aren't talking about these things? Or sad that people playing an RPG made TPS aren't looking for deep meaningful discussion about on disk content they have to pay to unlock?

[Duncanîdaho]

Oh and the reapers aren't retarded at all, everything they do is incomprehensible to mortals. Taking the Citadel later was a well calculated strategic move that paid off. Maybe they actually wanted to have the Catalyst installed on the Citadel. Nothing about them is really explained. Well, the destroy ending kinda sucks for them but that's probably because they didn't knows Shepard might actually go for it and sacrifice pretty much everything in the entire galaxy and still wouldn't solve anything.

The god child didn't just kill Shepard either, maybe it was the reapers plan all along to test the sentient life or something. If they can band together, build the Catalyst and reach the special place in the citadel, they are worthy of being spared or something.

I found most of the stuff on the reapers that we did not know was explained.

They were created by an organic race(s), to control synthetic life creation long-term. Starchild is the AI guardian of the whole reaper system. Every organic cycle in the galaxy eventually creates a synthetic lifeform that turns on them and kills them, or very nearly. So the reapers were created ages ago to harvest an organic civilization and assimilate a synthetic one whenever a synthetic lifeform was created in the cycle. This is to prevent the synthetic's from evolving into something like the reapers, but worse, with no mercy towards even primitive species. Then all life would be wiped out permanently. Each cycles essence, technology and history is preserved in a Reaper(s) designed in their likeness, and in their honor for their species sacrifice for life to go on. All the Data on organic and synthetic lifeforms continues to be stored in hopes of one day finding a better solution. That's pretty much the puzzle piece we've been missing in the prior games.

Also I do not believe the reapers or starchild knew of the Crucible prior to Cerberus telling them, or what it would do. I doubt a Guardian AI charged with guarding the future of all life in the galaxy would willfully let someone reprogram it. As he said the crucible changed him(the catalyst) and he could see new solutions now and that the old one would not work anymore.

[Nerraw]

I'm not sure what you're getting at? Sad that people are so upset over the ending they aren't talking about these things? Or sad that people playing an RPG made TPS aren't looking for deep meaningful discussion about on disk content they have to pay to unlock?

Javik was an example, there's plenty of stuff not involving him that also has it's lessons.

The game is still an RPG in the traditional sense that you have a hero who is set on a quest to prevent some sort of evil force from doing something bad to the world. And what isn't provided by the game, you, the player, make up in your mind. The action-games are usually a lot more linear with less open-ended storytelling. I think this series has brought in a lot of people from both sides, and in the end neither side really wanted what the other had to offer. In my mind ME3 represents everything Bioware wanted the two other games to be as well. And the world isn't ready for that, as evidenced by the massive hate lately.

Yes, I'm probably generalizing a lot and will be proven wrong on many points, but that is how I currently see it.

And yes, a lot of people are going "The ending makes no sense, so what does it even matter to take the rest of the trilogy into consideration?". It seems to me that a ton of them are just looking for an excuse to hate on things, and then are unable to be swayed from that line of thought no matter what anyone does about it. Maybe it's just me, but that is the view of the Retake movement that I've seen from BSN.

[OrcsRLame]

The Asari got there by using the relay, they didn't fly there on ships using FTL. And of course it has moved. Everything in the galaxy moves. Besides it's a "tiny" space station in the middle of nowhere, a passing star or even ships docking it move it a little and after 50k years (although probably millions of years since the Reapers didn't have any need to go there by other means before) it can move quite a bit. The relay everyone else uses to get to the citadel just moves with it.
I'm pretty sure the ME1 codex even mentioned that it was nearly impossible to get to the Citadel by just passing through the nebula.

Oh and the reapers aren't retarded at all, everything they do is incomprehensible to mortals. Taking the Citadel later was a well calculated strategic move that paid off. Maybe they actually wanted to have the Catalyst installed on the Citadel. Nothing about them is really explained. Well, the destroy ending kinda sucks for them but that's probably because they didn't knows Shepard might actually go for it and sacrifice pretty much everything in the entire galaxy and still wouldn't solve anything.

The god child didn't just kill Shepard either, maybe it was the reapers plan all along to test the sentient life or something. If they can band together, build the Catalyst and reach the special place in the citadel, they are worthy of being spared or something.

The Reapers are very comprehensible to mortals, don't listen to Sovereign and his bullshit. It's from ME1 anyway, so it doesn't really count. That's the problem with explaining their motivations, we can see how many holes there actually is in their logic.

And how are they not retarded? Just consider the final hours of ME3. It is a fact that Reapers are faster than any allied ships. They can also move the Citadel. The Citadel also controls the mass relays. With that information in mind, think about this battle plan. The way I would play if I was them is simple. Once the allied fleet enters the Sol system, I would shut off all mass relays. I would then drive the Citadel directly away from the allied fleet. I would give the Citadel an escort of 100 or so Reapers, to make sure a small force, (Normandy) couldn't sneak through. All remaining forces would be put directly towards slowing down, and destroying the allied fleet.

Even if enough ships broke through the main fleet to actually punch through my 100 Reaper rear guard, no ship would ever be able to catch the Citadel, because Reaper tech is faster. Once the Crucible is located and destroyed, resume normal harvesting procedures.

I am just a human. My brain has very limited processing power. Using the same information that was available to the Reapers, I personally have constructed a battle plan that is better than the battle plan constructed by a race of sentient machines whose processing power is almost incalculably higher than our greatest supercomputers? Yeah, I don't buy that.

Like was said above, it must be a gameplay thing, because it makes no logical sense.

[Spaceshaman]

"The ending makes no sense,

Of course it does. Not counting Buzz Aldrin who nullifies the whole franchise during his 5 min cutscene.

Anyway not counting that it happens just what was said in the first 5 minute of Mass Effect 1 (one). The cycle will complete, no matter what you do!

[Nerraw]

Merely stating the most often heard argument whenever someone tries to spark a discussion on something specific from the game on BSN.

[Zao]

I found most of the stuff on the reapers that we did not know was explained.

They were created by an organic race(s), to control synthetic life creation long-term. Starchild is the AI guardian of the whole reaper system. Every organic cycle in the galaxy eventually creates a synthetic lifeform that turns on them and kills them, or very nearly. So the reapers were created ages ago to harvest an organic civilization and assimilate a synthetic one whenever a synthetic lifeform was created in the cycle. This is to prevent the synthetic's from evolving into something like the reapers, but worse, with no mercy towards even primitive species. Then all life would be wiped out permanently. Each cycles essence, technology and history is preserved in a Reaper(s) designed in their likeness, and in their honor for their species sacrifice for life to go on. All the Data on organic and synthetic lifeforms continues to be stored in hopes of one day finding a better solution. That's pretty much the puzzle piece we've been missing in the prior games.

Also I do not believe the reapers or starchild knew of the Crucible prior to Cerberus telling them, or what it would do. I doubt a Guardian AI charged with guarding the future of all life in the galaxy would willfully let someone reprogram it. As he said the crucible changed him(the catalyst) and he could see new solutions now and that the old one would not work anymore.

While it's nothing to do directly with ME3, I always wondered at that. Wouldn't an organic race be just as likely to kill every living thing in the galaxy?
Think of the Krogans if they had won the rebellions. Multiplying quickly and needing resources. They wouldn't give a shit if a habitable planet already had life on it or not. They'd conquer it and probably extinguish any native sentient life on it.
And they wouldn't have a problem with just going through every Mass Relay in search of worthy foes.

There's also the issue of resources not growing back in 50'000 years. Unless the reapers manually "replant" every single piece of metal and eezo, the galaxy would consist purely of junk after a few cycles.

And considering that this stuff has been going on for millions of years it's kind of surprising that there's still habitable planets left where no alien advanced race has ever set foot on and is near enough to a Mass Relay.

[Xeones]

Of course it does. Not counting Buzz Aldrin who nullifies the whole franchise during his 5 min cutscene.

Anyway not counting that it happens just what was said in the first 5 minute of Mass Effect 1 (one). The cycle will complete, no matter what you do!

Some things make sense, but many make no sense at all. Joker grabbing the ground crew and fleeing the fight? The mass relays blowing up without destroying the system? Shepard giving into the catalyst without a fight when he has fought for what is right the entire series?

There are things that make sense and simply aren't satisfying, then there are things that make no sense at all and are incredibly unsatisfying.

[Spaceshaman]

Some things make sense, but many make no sense at all.

That was labeled "grasping in straws" by the devs themselves.

The conclusion still stands: the cycle will complete.

And yeah it's hard to accept for me too lol.

[rhorle]

I found most of the stuff on the reapers that we did not know was explained.

They were created by an organic race(s), to control synthetic life creation long-term. Starchild is the AI guardian of the whole reaper system. Every organic cycle in the galaxy eventually creates a synthetic lifeform that turns on them and kills them, or very nearly. So the reapers were created ages ago to harvest an organic civilization and assimilate a synthetic one whenever a synthetic lifeform was created in the cycle. This is to prevent the synthetic's from evolving into something like the reapers, but worse, with no mercy towards even primitive species. Then all life would be wiped out permanently. Each cycles essence, technology and history is preserved in a Reaper(s) designed in their likeness, and in their honor for their species sacrifice for life to go on. All the Data on organic and synthetic lifeforms continues to be stored in hopes of one day finding a better solution. That's pretty much the puzzle piece we've been missing in the prior games.

Also I do not believe the reapers or starchild knew of the Crucible prior to Cerberus telling them, or what it would do. I doubt a Guardian AI charged with guarding the future of all life in the galaxy would willfully let someone reprogram it. As he said the crucible changed him(the catalyst) and he could see new solutions now and that the old one would not work anymore.

Except all reapers look alike. There has only been one Reaper that looked differently and that was being built by the collectors in ME2 and destroyed by Shepard. No other footage of the reapers showed a different looking reaper then the Squid forms. If they change shape only after every cycle then maybe that is true. The problem with ME3 and its ending is it essentially re-writes everything else done int he game into 3 paths. Everything done to fight the reapers becomes null and void because it doesn't matter what you do. It all ends the same, with the Cycle being complete and destruction of Advanced Lifeforms.

[Nerraw]

I had not heard that specific dialogue before. O.o

[Deleted]

Javik was an example, there's plenty of stuff not involving him that also has it's lessons.

The game is still an RPG in the traditional sense that you have a hero who is set on a quest to prevent some sort of evil force from doing something bad to the world. And what isn't provided by the game, you, the player, make up in your mind. The action-games are usually a lot more linear with less open-ended storytelling. I think this series has brought in a lot of people from both sides, and in the end neither side really wanted what the other had to offer. In my mind ME3 represents everything Bioware wanted the two other games to be as well. And the world isn't ready for that, as evidenced by the massive hate lately.

Yes, I'm probably generalizing a lot and will be proven wrong on many points, but that is how I currently see it.

And yes, a lot of people are going "The ending makes no sense, so what does it even matter to take the rest of the trilogy into consideration?". It seems to me that a ton of them are just looking for an excuse to hate on things, and then are unable to be swayed from that line of thought no matter what anyone does about it. Maybe it's just me, but that is the view of the Retake movement that I've seen from BSN.

Why would people who love the franchise look for an excuse to hate on things? I was really loving the game minor little things and then I got this ending that left me somehow annoyed. The more I think about it, the less I like it. I think it's all the opposite, I want to love every single moment of this trilogy but the ending is...I don't know.

People are not hating on the fact that Legion, Mordin, Tali, etc. can easily die, or even that Shepard can die, but more about the general thing. We have no idea what happens next, the reaction by the other characters, their placement, etc. It's just...

I think that you are wrong in your assumption and line of thought, but maybe you can elaborate on it so maybe I can see your point. Again, if you remove the last 15 minutes of the game, I think the hate level is almost unexistant (there will be always people who don't like the game).

[Deleted]

More random stuff I've encountered on my newest Mass Effect 2 playthrough. I just finished playing Lair of the Shadow Broker and I bumped into a terminal I haven't seen before. It has intel about the group members (and other people you've met) and I have no idea how I've managed to miss this all the other times. I love this one about Jack.

"Dear Jacqueline Nought,

Thank you for your submission to Galactic Poetry Monthly. We regret that we are unable to use your submission at this time. Galactic Poetry Monthly generally focuses on metered verse, and you may wish to check our guidelines before submitting again.

Sincerely,
Megan McAaron
Submissions Editor

Text of your submission:
My soul
Burns
With a fire of darkness
Quenched only in the pain
Of loneliness
I hold my breath waiting
Until spots appear black as the past
And fill my lungs with lies of hope
I mark myself
Black and jagged
To cover the scars
That make me a monster
A warning
This is not a place of honor
No esteemed dead are buried here"

I never knew Jack was into poetry. o_o

Also gotta love Grunt searching for information about dinosaurs and sharks. And buying an action figure with authentic smashing action.

Nyaaaw. Almost done with my Renegade ME2 playthrough. I seriously wonder how am I supposed to stick to being a Renegade on ME3, though... I'm still curious to see how things look this time around.

[Deleted]

Nyaaaw. Almost done with my Renegade ME2 playthrough. I seriously wonder how am I supposed to stick to being a Renegade on ME3, though... I'm still curious to see how things look this time around.

Without willing to spoil, ME3 Renegade is...not cool. In ME1 and ME2 it was somehow fun and practical with a constant badass feeling. But in ME3...

[Deleted]

To anyone who liked the ending... can you explain what it is/what parts you liked and made sense?
Not trying to start a flame but the only argument from people who liked it is "oh man it's so deep, you just don't get it! Stop being so dumb!"

People who disliked it can point at the huge plotholes, contradictions, out-of-universe plot points (lol guardian) and plain lies about the large variety of the endings :s

Playing it again and when I get cool reinforcements (like Samara or dinosaur riding krogans...) I just cry a little inside about never getting to see them.

More random stuff I've encountered on my newest Mass Effect 2 playthrough. I just finished playing Lair of the Shadow Broker and I bumped into a terminal I haven't seen before. It has intel about the group members (and other people you've met) and I have no idea how I've managed to miss this all the other times. I love this one about Jack.

"Dear Jacqueline Nought,

Thank you for your submission to Galactic Poetry Monthly. We regret that we are unable to use your submission at this time. Galactic Poetry Monthly generally focuses on metered verse, and you may wish to check our guidelines before submitting again.

Sincerely,
Megan McAaron
Submissions Editor

Text of your submission:
My soul
Burns
With a fire of darkness
Quenched only in the pain
Of loneliness
I hold my breath waiting
Until spots appear black as the past
And fill my lungs with lies of hope
I mark myself
Black and jagged
To cover the scars
That make me a monster
A warning
This is not a place of honor
No esteemed dead are buried here"

I never knew Jack was into poetry. o_o

Also gotta love Grunt searching for information about dinosaurs and sharks. And buying an action figure with authentic smashing action.

Nyaaaw. Almost done with my Renegade ME2 playthrough. I seriously wonder how am I supposed to stick to being a Renegade on ME3, though... I'm still curious to see how things look this time around.

Last I saw your renegade wasn't doing too well at being mean ^.^

[Deleted]

Without willing to spoil, ME3 Renegade is...not cool. In ME1 and ME2 it was somehow fun and practical with a constant badass feeling. But in ME3...

Based on what I saw during my ME3 playthroughs with a Paragon/Paraged characters the choices are pretty black and white. Most of the time it's "choose side a or b" or "kill guy a or b". I'm kind of more interested to see what the Renegade choices on ME1/ME2 affect it.

Last I saw your renegade wasn't doing too well at being mean ^.^

Guess what? My Shepard is starting to get the red, shiny scarring and shiny eyes! So I must be doing something right... err... wrong.

EDIT: I have to admit that it's still not a big difference. I hardly get to choose any Renegade or Paragon choices since the split is rather small. I think I have about 75% Renegade points and 50% Paragon points. :P

[Deleo]

My first WTF moment was actually right at the beginning. You have Shepard who:

1- Couldn't be stopped by the best specter
2- Couldn't be stopped by the council
3- Couldn't be stopped by the Geth.
4- Couldn't be stopped by Reaper's harbinger
5- Couldn't be stopped by the collectors
6- Didn't mind being called a traitor by, basically, everyone cos of working with Cerberus.

but sits on his ass and does nothing after ME2 just because some human council told him so. Right there at the beginning of the game when I heard he hasn't done shit after ME2, I was shocked.

[Deleted]

My first WTF moment was actually right at the beginning. You have Shepard who:

1- Couldn't be stopped by the best specter
2- Couldn't be stopped by the council
3- Couldn't be stopped by the Geth.
4- Couldn't be stopped by Reaper's harbinger
5- Couldn't be stopped by the collectors
6- Didn't mind being called a traitor by, basically, everyone cos of working with Cerberus.

but sits on his ass and does nothing after ME2 just because some human council told him so. Right there at the beginning of the game when I heard he hasn't done shit after ME2, I was shocked.

S/he sort of blew up an entire system occupied with 300,000 Batarians AND their slaves...

Makes sense as not going to trial would cause a war between the Alliance and the Batarians which you couldn't afford with the Reapers coming.

And Cerberus did BAD SHIT!
In ME1 they experimented with Rachni, Husks and Zombie plants (Thorian Thralls) to use as their own army.
You learn they sent a pack of thresher maws to attack an Alliance unit to observe what happened to them (one of your possible histories is the only survivor of this... or are you).
They lured an Alliance patrol that was assigned to investigate them to a false distress beacon where there was also a Maw.
They killed the Alliance Admiral in charge of investigating them.

At the start of ME2 you learn they tried to blow up Quarian flotilla ships and the whole thing with Jack... and those are just the IN-GAME references I can think of right now.