[Megathread] Mass Effect 3

[Deleted]

Oh god, at least my main Shepard would never want to be a Councilor. She hates politics and she feels sorry that she put Anderson to the Councilor spot before Udina took over.

Entirly the point.
It will be andersons reactions, but alot angrier.

[Deleted]

Entirly the point.
It will be andersons reactions, but alot angrier.

She'd run away and put someone like Jack in her place. That'd be something worth experiencing.

[Deleted]

She'd run away and put someone like Jack in her place. That'd be something worth experiencing.

You know you want Councilor Shepard with Jack as his advisor.

[Deleted]

You know you want Councilor Shepard with Jack as his advisor.

My male Shepard would be 'ruling' with Liara on his side, he's a good guy. My Renegade female Shepard however... She would enjoy causing all kinds of little issues with Jack as her advisor.

[Glorious Leader]

I highly doubt that DLC will explain anything. I personally cannot see any justification for joker abandoning you on earth and attempting to flee they can add all the scenes in the world and attempt to justify it but given how that characters been along with your companions over the years i doubt they could make it convincing but that's just my opinion. In terms of the MP free DLC it's pretty much a clever PR move to present a good image to the media.

I for one fear for the quality of anything that EA allows to be " free " maybe it's just me.

Hacket ordered them to retreat. Justification presented.

Also the position that the MP free dlc is a clever PR move is unfounded. You have no proof of that. What you can say is that they are offering a free MP pack for their fans. Simple as that. I don't understand this attitude that says any time a game companies does something for free it must inherently have some underhanded dirty trick to it. WHy can't we give them credit where credit is due? Do you just want to hate them forever? Is it cathartic to do so? If so then it's meaningless to have a conversation. For everyone else without such paranoid delusions woot! free dlc content is awesome.

[Kaneiac]

Hacket ordered them to retreat. Justification presented.

If they add that, great. But it wasn't in the current ending. The only team that was asked to retreat was the ground team - I replayed it last week because someone said the same thing. The air team was never under a retreat order. There was even cut dialogue of Joker while you were making the final push - but, it was cut, for some stupid reason.

[Glorious Leader]

If they add that, great. But it wasn't in the current ending. The only team that was asked to retreat was the ground team - I replayed it last week because someone said the same thing. The air team was never under a retreat order. There was even cut dialogue of Joker while you were making the final push - but, it was cut, for some stupid reason.

The guy I quoted said he could not see any justification. I gave him a rather simple one that took me all of 2 seconds to think about.

[Kaneiac]

The guy I quoted said he could not see any justification. I gave him a rather simple one that took me all of 2 seconds to think about.

They'd have to recreate the entire end cinematics to go with that, though. While you're up in the Citadel, there's still ships fighting and all that jazz outside.

More work than Bioware is willing to put in, I wager. I mean, look at what they gave us to begin with.

Not to mention that Hackett messages Shepard while he's up in the damn Citadel, saying the Crucible isn't firing

[rol3x]

Hacket ordered them to retreat. Justification presented.

Also the position that the MP free dlc is a clever PR move is unfounded. You have no proof of that. What you can say is that they are offering a free MP pack for their fans. Simple as that. I don't understand this attitude that says any time a game companies does something for free it must inherently have some underhanded dirty trick to it. WHy can't we give them credit where credit is due? Do you just want to hate them forever? Is it cathartic to do so? If so then it's meaningless to have a conversation. For everyone else without such paranoid delusions woot! free dlc content is awesome.

Lets say for arguments sake that hacket did order joker to leave (I cant fathom why he would ever do that but I digress), I dont see any way joker would ever follow that order to abandon shepard especially when there is evidence that shepard is making progress, Hacket tells shepard he needs to do something on his end to activate the crucible, the arms of the citadel open shortly after, looking from the outside it would look like the plan is working. I cant see a single moment where Hacket ordering a retreat would make any sense at all, joker following that order makes even less sense.

I do agree that it seems even if they give the players something for free people get a little bitter but frankly the multiplayer system has microtransactions, its not as though they dont expect money from it. They gain 0 credit and lose 0 credit for that.
The free single player dlc is just them trying to help fix the mess of an ending.

[Glorious Leader]

They'd have to recreate the entire end cinematics to go with that, though. While you're up in the Citadel, there's still ships fighting and all that jazz outside.

More work than Bioware is willing to put in, I wager. I mean, look at what they gave us to begin with.

Not to mention that Hackett messages Shepard while he's up in the damn Citadel, saying the Crucible isn't firing

Not really. Just add a cutscene where Hacket says all ships in the fleet retreat the crucible is about to be inserted. Hackett messages sheppard as the fleets are withdrawing.

---------- Post added 2012-04-08 at 12:08 AM ----------

Lets say for arguments sake that hacket did order joker to leave (I cant fathom why he would ever do that but I digress), I dont see any way joker would ever follow that order to abandon shepard especially when there is evidence that shepard is making progress, Hacket tells shepard he needs to do something on his end to activate the crucible, the arms of the citadel open shortly after, looking from the outside it would look like the plan is working. I cant see a single moment where Hacket ordering a retreat would make any sense at all, joker following that order makes even less sense.

I do agree that it seems even if they give the players something for free people get a little bitter but frankly the multiplayer system has microtransactions, its not as though they dont expect money from it. They gain 0 credit and lose 0 credit for that.
The free single player dlc is just them trying to help fix the mess of an ending.

Hacket ordered the fleet to retreat cause it was getting it ass handed to it by the repears and the crucible had been inserted already so their was little point to sticking around and dying. As the fleet is retreated Hackets ship is the last one to leave, and Hackett messages Shepard about crucible not firing off and shepard needing to do something about it. As for joker following the orders, they are in the military and following orders should be natural. Shepard did take a reaper beam to the face so it's possible that they though he was dead, Hacket ordered them to retreat and then as they were leaving they realized shep must have made it since the arms of the thing were opening up.

I'm not sure the micro trans are all that big a deal. I'd be very surprised if they saw alot of money from the cases but it's possible I guess. It's not like it's hard to farm points in that game if you have a good group of people.

[rol3x]

Not really. Just add a cutscene where Hacket says all ships in the fleet retreat the crucible is about to be inserted. Hackett messages sheppard as the fleets are withdrawing.

---------- Post added 2012-04-08 at 12:08 AM ----------



Hacket ordered the fleet to retreat cause it was getting it ass handed to it by the repears and the crucible had been inserted already so their was little point to sticking around and dying. As the fleet is retreated Hackets ship is the last one to leave, and Hackett messages Shepard about crucible not firing off and shepard needing to do something about it. As for joker following the orders, they are in the military and following orders should be natural. Shepard did take a reaper beam to the face so it's possible that they though he was dead, Hacket ordered them to retreat and then as they were leaving they realized shep must have made it since the arms of the thing were opening up.

I'm not sure the micro trans are all that big a deal. I'd be very surprised if they saw alot of money from the cases but it's possible I guess. It's not like it's hard to farm points in that game if you have a good group of people.

The reapers are actively attacking to destroy the crudible, the entirety of shield fleet is needed to defend it while shepard does his thing. The fleet cant just leave.

[Glorious Leader]

The reapers are actively attacking to destroy the crudible, the entirety of shield fleet is needed to defend it while shepard does his thing. The fleet cant just leave.

And yet it more or less waltzed right into the thing without a reaper ship insight during the cut scene. I'm curious did they actually say the reapers were targeting it? Again it's very simple they thought shep was dead, the reapers likely did as well since he did eat a reaper beam. The fleet attempted to retreat as Hacket ordered them to retreat. The reapers ignored the crucible while shepard managed to wounded make his way up to the control panel and chased the retreating fleet. The arms opened up, Hacket realizes shep is alive and messages him.

[rol3x]

And yet it more or less waltzed right into the thing without a reaper ship insight during the cut scene. I'm curious did they actually say the reapers were targeting it?

There isnt alot but there is mention of having little time because the reapers are destroying the fleets and there isnt much time to get the crucible to do w/e it does.
We know the reapers are aware of the crucible and how dangerous it is to them, shield fleet is needed to escort it to the citadel for that very reason, we dont see them fight to defend it but its pretty safe to assume they do. The crucible gets close and attaches to the citadel. why would the reapers just ignore it? its the single greatest threat to them built in the last thousand cycles, this is a train of mostly just what ifs and how comes but it holds up I think.
The main problem is there are gaping holes in the story and series of events so I could be very wrong.

[Glorious Leader]

There isnt alot but there is mention of having little time because the reapers are destroying the fleets and there isnt much time to get the crucible to do w/e it does.
We know the reapers are aware of the crucible and how dangerous it is to them, shield fleet is needed to escort it to the citadel for that very reason, we dont see them fight to defend it but its pretty safe to assume they do. The crucible gets close and attaches to the citadel. why would the reapers just ignore it? its the single greatest threat to them built in the last thousand cycles, this is a train of mostly just what ifs and how comes but it holds up I think.
The main problem is there are gaping holes in the story and series of events so I could be very wrong.

They may be aware of it but the reapers consider them beyond mortal threat. Remember they sent harbinger back to stop anyone from getting into the citadel, it's not a stretch to assume (given their position) that they assumed shep was destroyed and their safety was assured. They may have been to busy either on the planet or chasing down the retreating fleet to stop the crucible from getting in position.

Also mention of having little time further reinforces the point about the fleet getting it's ass kicked and Hacket ordering it to retreat seeming plausible if not likely.

[rhorle]

As for joker following the orders, they are in the military and following orders should be natural. Shepard did take a reaper beam to the face so it's possible that they though he was dead, Hacket ordered them to retreat and then as they were leaving they realized shep must have made it since the arms of the thing were opening up.

Except Joker states that they broke out of dry dock and he would have vented all Alliance personnel but was convinced by EDI not to throw them out of the airlock. Joke is loyal to Shepard not the Alliance Military or Hacket. Remember Joker was under arrest as well, and him and EDI hid the fact that EDI was a AI and made it seem like she was only a VI.

---------- Post added 2012-04-07 at 08:35 PM ----------

And yet it more or less waltzed right into the thing without a reaper ship insight during the cut scene. I'm curious did they actually say the reapers were targeting it? Again it's very simple they thought shep was dead, the reapers likely did as well since he did eat a reaper beam. The fleet attempted to retreat as Hacket ordered them to retreat. The reapers ignored the crucible while shepard managed to wounded make his way up to the control panel and chased the retreating fleet. The arms opened up, Hacket realizes shep is alive and messages him.

The reapers aren't dumb. All of their tactics have been displayed as going after the threats without regard to what the enemy is doing. There is no way they would let the crucible go, the biggest possible threat to their plans, just because they think Shepard is dead and the fleet is in retreat. They may have left Hammer alone temporarily but there is no way they would leave the crucible alone.

---------- Post added 2012-04-07 at 08:44 PM ----------

And yet it more or less waltzed right into the thing without a reaper ship insight during the cut scene. I'm curious did they actually say the reapers were targeting it? Again it's very simple they thought shep was dead, the reapers likely did as well since he did eat a reaper beam. The fleet attempted to retreat as Hacket ordered them to retreat. The reapers ignored the crucible while shepard managed to wounded make his way up to the control panel and chased the retreating fleet. The arms opened up, Hacket realizes shep is alive and messages him.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV1QyNumjZU[/url] The Crucible gets destroyed if you take to long to make a choice at the end. That video also seems to disprove Indoctrination theory. Though I'm sure it the "it's all an illusion so it was a lie ending" catch all will be used to counter it.

[Glorious Leader]

Except Joker states that they broke out of dry dock and he would have vented all Alliance personnel but was convinced by EDI not to throw them out of the airlock. Joke is loyal to Shepard not the Alliance Military or Hacket. Remember Joker was under arrest as well, and him and EDI hid the fact that EDI was a AI and made it seem like she was only a VI.

---------- Post added 2012-04-07 at 08:35 PM ----------



The reapers aren't dumb. All of their tactics have been displayed as going after the threats without regard to what the enemy is doing. There is no way they would let the crucible go, the biggest possible threat to their plans, just because they think Shepard is dead and the fleet is in retreat. They may have left Hammer alone temporarily but there is no way they would leave the crucible alone.

---------- Post added 2012-04-07 at 08:44 PM ----------



[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qV1QyNumjZU[/url] The Crucible gets destroyed if you take to long to make a choice at the end. That video also seems to disprove Indoctrination theory. Though I'm sure it the "it's all an illusion so it was a lie ending" catch all will be used to counter it.

Joker is loyal to shepard IF they think hes alive. He ate a reaper beam to the face. Why would anything think he was alive? As for the reapers not being stupid it isn't a question of stupidity it's a question of arrogance. They think they've stopped shepard and his forces when harbinger lands and beams shep in the face. They've underestimated him which they have a history of doing. If you wait to long the reapers intercept hackets communication, realize shep is still alive and the threat is still real and they come back and destroy it. Yes they all thought shep was dead.

[rol3x]

Joker is loyal to shepard IF they think hes alive. He ate a reaper beam to the face. Why would anything think he was alive? As for the reapers not being stupid it isn't a question of stupidity it's a question of arrogance. They think they've stopped shepard and his forces when harbinger lands and beams shep in the face. They've underestimated him which they have a history of doing. If you wait to long the reapers intercept hackets communication, realize shep is still alive and the threat is still real and they come back and destroy it. Yes they all thought shep was dead.

But that is also stupidity, to see 1 man being killed and thinking they have won ignoring the massive piece of technology floating in and interfacing with the citadel.

Edit: watching the end sequence again, there is nothing stopping someone else in any of the organic fleets landing on the citadel and doing what shepard would do. The reapers either are infact fighting to get to the crucible to stop it or they are ignoring the greatest threat they have ever faced because they think one organic is dead.

[Duncanîdaho]

I think you guys are overlooking that Hackett under no circumstances would order the fleet to retreat. This is it. All or nothing, he knows that and I'm pretty sure he said something like that during the game. Every last bit of the fleet would have been needed to cut through to the Citadel while guarding the Crucible. Then guarding the Citadel once it got there. They then would have been surrounded by the Reapers trying to get to the Crucible/Citadel. They wouldn't even be able to escape if they wanted to. They blew a path to the Citadel through Reaper lines, followed it, then the Reapers would of reformed around them(Like the end of LOTR at the black gate almost).

What would calling the fleet back do anyway? A couple badly damaged surviving ships are going to do Jack squat if the crucible is taken out. Again, it's all or nothing.

With the exception of the Normandy, who's stealth would let them get back through the Reaper lines and get to the relay. For what purpose, I do not know.

[Windry]

Can we stop posting and arguing about the indoctrination theory? Hasn't Casey Hudson came out and said that the ending simply wasn't indoctrination?
There are a lot of problems with the ending, but yes they can easily be fixed without changing the ending.

All it would take would be the following steps.
1) Claim it was a bug that the squad mates with you on Earth in the final charge can come out of the Normandy on the tropical planet, and program it so that those squad mates are not shown coming out of the Normandy.

2) Have Shepards body in the rubble wake up, and then zoom out to show that he's still on the Citadel.
2a) "But the Citadel doesn't have any rubble, it's clearly London!"
- No, if you watch the ending of ME1, there's plenty of concrete and rubble in the Citadel.
2b) "But we saw the Citadel blow up!"
- There are explosions on the Citadel in the ending, but the Citadel as a whole does not explode. Watch it again. The CRUCIBLE as a whole does explode, but the Citadel as a whole does not. There's no reason why the Citadel couldn't become completely functional again.

3) Add a scene:
Right before the beam activates:

Edi: Jeff, I am detecting a massive fluctuation in energy.
Jeff: You think Shepard got it to work?
Edi: Energy readings seem to indicate it. The crucible is charging up.
Jeff: We got to warn the fleet!
Edi: Unnecessary, the crucible was created only to affect artificial intelligence. It is unlikely that it will damage other ships.
Joker realizes what she's saying (that the energy will affect EDI), and then tries to get out of there.

That or something simple like Athrahasis' example, "The crucible is charging up, Hackett has ordered everyone to fall back."

That's what I expect the extended ending to be, and I think it'd be good enough.

[Glorious Leader]

But that is also stupidity, to see 1 man being killed and thinking they have won ignoring the massive piece of technology floating in and interfacing with the citadel.

Edit: watching the end sequence again, there is nothing stopping someone else in any of the organic fleets landing on the citadel and doing what shepard would do. The reapers either are infact fighting to get to the crucible to stop it or they are ignoring the greatest threat they have ever faced because they think one organic is dead.

Then their stupid. Arrogance and stupidity and not mutually exclusive. Why attack earth? Why let shep escape the first time? Why not go for a bigger target? In fact why move the citadel to earth? Why not take it out of the galaxy entirely away from the reach of the other species? The answer is simple. The reapers don't consider the races in the galaxy a threat. Their extremely arrogant because they consider themselves beyond life and death.

---------- Post added 2012-04-08 at 01:33 AM ----------

What would calling the fleet back do anyway? A couple badly damaged surviving ships are going to do Jack squat if the crucible is taken out. Again, it's all or nothing.

I don't think Hacket would needlesly throw their lives away. If the crucible is about to enter in and theirs little that the fleet can do other than get slaughtered by the reapers, it would be prudent to call for them to fall back and let the "space magic" happen.