[Megathread] Mass Effect 3

[rhorle]

Because the breath scene is titled ShepardAlive in game files.

A title is just a title. It doesn't mean that Shepard isn't still dying but merely he was alive for that scene. It could still mean it was his final breath or it doesn't mean that at all. It is left open to interpretation but it doesn't mean he can't be dead.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

If that was their intention why not name it ShepardBreath? Or ShepardInhale? Or ShepardCitadelAftermath? Or any one of the number of titles they could have chosen that DIDN'T indicate Shepard was actually alive?

[rhorle]

If that was their intention why not name it ShepardBreath? Or ShepardInhale? Or ShepardCitadelAftermath? Or any one of the number of titles they could have chosen that DIDN'T indicate Shepard was actually alive?

Because they don't worry about over analyzing things just to name them for production?

[Medusa Cascade]

A title is just a title. It doesn't mean that Shepard isn't still dying but merely he was alive for that scene. It could still mean it was his final breath or it doesn't mean that at all. It is left open to interpretation but it doesn't mean he can't be dead.

You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

Why would they put that there if they want it left to interpretation?

[Oerba Yun Fang]

Because they don't worry about over analyzing things just to name them for production?

Right, because you're not over analyzing, thinking something that outright says Shepard is alive could be "left open to interpretation." I really don't see how that isn't an indication that Shepard is alive. Yeah, she may not be for long, but she obviously is. She may not get the tearful reunion with her crew, but she's alive. What happens afterward is open for interpretation, yes, but a scene with her inhaling that is titled ShepardAlive? Clearly alive for that scene, if nothing else.

Say what you will, but I'm still convinced that Shep does, in fact, live for that ending. I just don't see the point of putting that scene plus the hesitation of the LI if that wasn't the case.

[rhorle]

Why would they put that there if they want it left to interpretation?

Meant to suggest and hope are not "Is alive and is reunited". It could also mean that Shepard dies and they never find him. If something is left open to interpretation you can't just dismiss a bad interpretation because you don't personally like it.

[Medusa Cascade]

Lets agree to disagree

I'm more interested in Leviathan to be honest.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

Lets agree to disagree

I'm more interested in Leviathan to be honest.

I've avoided any and all information on it that I possibly can. I want it to be a surprise. XD

[Grizzly Willy]

Playing through again and just finished the last mission on Tuchanka. I really wish there was a renegade option when speaking to the Dalatras where you just hang up on her.

[rhorle]

Right, because you're not over analyzing, thinking something that outright says Shepard is alive could be "left open to interpretation."

Shepard being alive for one scene does not mean they stay alive. Does not mean they aren't dying in the that scene and we are seeing their final breaths. It can mean various things. I'm not over analyzing it because I am seeing a title for exactly that the title of the scene. I'm not the one assigning arbitrary restrictions based on a scene title. I only basing what could happen based on what takes place in the scene.

It by that scene it is possible that Shepard still dies. It might not be likely but it is still a possible interpretation from that scene.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

Playing through again and just finished the last mission on Tuchanka. I really wish there was a renegade option when speaking to the Dalatras where you just hang up on her.

Oh god I thought I was the only one. XD

---------- Post added 2012-06-30 at 05:46 AM ----------

Shepard being alive for one scene does not mean they stay alive. Does not mean they aren't dying in the that scene and we are seeing their final breaths. It can mean various things. I'm not over analyzing it because I am seeing a title for exactly that the title of the scene. I'm not the one assigning arbitrary restrictions based on a scene title. I only basing what could happen based on what takes place in the scene.

It by that scene it is possible that Shepard still dies. It might not be likely but it is still a possible interpretation from that scene.

Read the rest of my post, if you please.

[Delevicton]

Well then agree to disagree. I personally prefer when developers assume I'm intelligent enough to draw my own conclusions. I really didn't learn anything new from the extended cut aside from some interesting dialogue regarding the Catalyst's/Reaper's creators. I'm not saying I'm super smart or anything like that; far from it. It just wasn't that difficult to figure out.

90% of the extended cut was unnecessary from a story-telling standpoint, and only served to "dumb things down" for players who needed to be sat down and explained everything in extreme detail because they couldn't appreciate the beautiful, dark, tragic, and open ending the developers had originally planned for their artistic vision.

This whole ending controversy has worried me a bit about the future of gaming. Will developers now be afraid to stick to their visions and take risks? I don't want to live in a world where every video game ending holds your hand like a child.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

Well then agree to disagree. I personally prefer when developers assume I'm intelligent enough to draw my own conclusions. I really didn't learn anything new from the extended cut aside from some interesting dialogue regarding the Catalyst's/Reaper's creators. I'm not saying I'm super smart or anything like that; far from it. It just wasn't that difficult to figure out.

90% of the extended cut was unnecessary from a story-telling standpoint, and only served to "dumb things down" for players who needed to be sat down and explained everything in extreme detail because they couldn't appreciate the beautiful, dark, tragic, and open ending the developers had originally planned for their artistic vision.

This whole ending controversy has worried me a bit about the future of gaming. Will developers now be afraid to stick to their visions and take risks? I don't want to live in a world where every video game ending holds your hand like a child.

Is the thinly veiled jab at everyone who actually wanted the EC really necessary?

[Grizzly Willy]

Is the thinly veiled jab at everyone who actually wanted the EC really necessary?

It's a legitimate concern. Like I said, we want this medium to be seen as art, and as such we should be treating these developers as artists. When we start demanding that they stray from their original vision in order to appease an unsatisfied consumer base, we remove the artistic integrity.

Now, that's not to say that the EC was a bad idea. I get the feeling that they felt it was necessary to clarify the ending, which was an honest request from the fans and not one that threatens the artistic value of the game.

I was fine with the original endings, as similar to each other as they were, but the EC improved upon them.

[Delevicton]

Is the thinly veiled jab at everyone who actually wanted the EC really necessary?

I think so =/. I love the series/gaming as much as anyone who wanted the Extended Cut, and that's why it kind of bums me out to see Bioware cave in like they did. Sure it's good fan service, but you know what happens when people do things to cater to the majority of fans? Look at popular music. We have Justin Biebers and Flo Rida's running around making watered-down, generic music because that's what MOST people WANT to hear.

I don't want Bioware to become the Justin Bieber of video games. In my opinion, they should stick to their guns and not be afraid of backlash due to some fans not personally enjoying and/or understanding their endings. We need MORE ME:3 endings in this world and less "and they all lived happily ever after" endings.

With that said; I DO understand why people wanted the Extended Cut. I truly do. I just can't endorse it based on my personal beliefs and expectations of artistic integrity.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

It's a legitimate concern. Like I said, we want this medium to be seen as art, and as such we should be treating these developers as artists. When we start demanding that they stray from their original vision in order to appease an unsatisfied consumer base, we remove the artistic integrity.

Now, that's not to say that the EC was a bad idea. I get the feeling that they felt it was necessary to clarify the ending, which was an honest request from the fans and not one that threatens the artistic value of the game.

I was fine with the original endings, as similar to each other as they were, but the EC improved upon them.

But, they didn't stray from their original version. Not really. They said multiple times they WERE NOT changing the endings, simply adding on to them. The concept of the endings stayed the same, you just got more information out of it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Their vision essentially remained the same.

---------- Post added 2012-06-30 at 06:01 AM ----------

With that said; I DO understand why people wanted the Extended Cut. I truly do. I just can't endorse it based on my personal beliefs and expectations of artistic integrity.

If you understand why, then how come the insults are necessary? You don't see me putting down people like you who didn't think the EC was necessary. Why do it to us?

As I said, nothing about the original three endings actually changed. They added more information, they didn't change them. Why is that such a bad thing? The story still played out like they intended it to. They found a way to please the majority of those who were dissatisfied while still keeping their original concept intact. Yeah, they added the refusal ending, but that's really inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

[Delevicton]

But, they didn't stray from their original version. Not really. They said multiple times they WERE NOT changing the endings, simply adding on to them. The concept of the endings stayed the same, you just got more information out of it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Their vision essentially remained the same.

---------- Post added 2012-06-30 at 06:01 AM ----------


If you understand why, then how come the insults are necessary? You don't see me putting down people like you who didn't think the EC was necessary. Why do it to us?

As I said, nothing about the original three endings actually changed. They added more information, they didn't change them. Why is that such a bad thing? The story still played out like they intended it to.

The endings are still fine; you're missing my point. My point is that from now on, Bioware(and perhaps other companies) will most likely be more afraid to put out an obscure, thought-provoking ending that leaves some questions unanswered, because they have seen the overwhelming backlash from the majority of fans. I don't think that's a GOOD thing for the future of game development. Artists shouldn't feel like they NEED to do ANYTHING. Art is something personal.

And I don't believe I've directly insulted anyone who enjoys the EC. Perhaps hinted at it. Although I do strongly feel that all the EC did was dumb things down for people who didn't like and/or understand the original ending. That's not really meant as an insult, it's just a fact. I don't see how anyone could argue against the EC dumbing things down.

[Deleted]

Lets agree to disagree

I'm more interested in Leviathan to be honest.

Return of Balak, provided he survived both times...

Also, that breath was a grasp of air, the same kind you take when you drown and grasps your first breath of air.
Shepard died (yet again) and he was rebooted (might be related to Liaras gift).

@Deleviction
Art isnt personal when you seek to gain economic profits from it. Case closed.
Also, when people play a game for the story - they better damn get the full story at the very climax, ending and epilogue.
This isnt COD.

[Delevicton]

Return of Balak, provided he survived both times...

Also, that breath was a grasp of air, the same kind you take when you drown and grasps your first breath of air.
Shepard died (yet again) and he was rebooted (might be related to Liaras gift).

@Deleviction
Art isnt personal when you seek to gain economic profits from it. Case closed.
Also, when people play a game for the story - they better damn get the full story at the very climax, ending and epilogue.
This isnt COD.

...That's kind of my point. You can have a balance between making money and making art. You don't need to sacrifice EVERYTHING to make some money. Are you implying that The Beatles' later work isn't art because they wanted it to be successful? What are you TALKING about? It's not black and white.

..And did you just imply you'd prefer Bioware only focus on making money? What did I just read.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

The endings are still fine; you're missing my point. My point is that from now on, Bioware(and perhaps other companies) will most likely be more afraid to put out an obscure, thought-provoking ending that leaves some questions unanswered, because they have seen the overwhelming backlash from the majority of fans. I don't think that's a GOOD thing for the future of game development. Artists shouldn't feel like they NEED to do ANYTHING. Art is something personal.

And I don't believe I've directly insulted anyone who enjoys the EC. Perhaps hinted at it. Although I do strongly feel that all the EC did was dumb things down for people who didn't like and/or understand the original ending. That's not really meant as an insult, it's just a fact. I don't see how anyone could argue against the EC dumbing things down.

Perhaps we have different definitions of thought-provoking. To me, the original endings were not thought-provoking at all. they were half-done. It felt like reading a book to chapter 19, only to find out chapter 20 got left out of publication. Things ended so abruptly that there really wasn't a whole hell of a lot to ponder on. There was just a lot of "...What?"

And no, you didn't directly insult anyone, but there was a hell of a lot of implications. You essentially said that me and everyone else who wanted the EC were somehow less intelligent than you. The EC simplified things (I refuse to use that "dumbing down" term - it's needlessly demeaning) quite a bit, but simplicity isn't a bad thing.