[Megathread] Mass Effect 3

[zealo]

Ugh, how many times will this "IT" be brought up? Shall we, maybe, discuss "Moon conspiracy" instead? Even that's more engaging than this.

This thread is going in circles at this point.

[RoboA]

Time to celebrate 1000 pages with some MP!

[Adam Jensen]

Time to celebrate 1000 pages with some MP!

Well my mind is set, I think I'll do some MP this evening after going to the grocery store.

[RoboA]

I cant remember if i got you on Origin friends list but if im still on we should play together.

My Origin name is: RoboDragonSlayer

[pateuvasiliu]

Ugh, how many times will this "IT" be brought up? Shall we, maybe, discuss "Moon conspiracy" instead? Even that's more engaging than this.

Until someone brings arguments against it, which no one has so far.

Everyone just calls IT's arguments fan fiction, which is laughable at best.

[Dezerte]

This thread is going in circles at this point.

Seems to happen every 50 pages or so, we call them The Horsebeaters.

[zealo]

How is it not fan fiction when bioware have never confirmed anything about IT actually being real?

I am a bit lost to the chain of thought going on here.

[May90]

Until someone brings arguments against it, which no one has so far.

Everyone just calls IT's arguments fan fiction, which is laughable at best.

If you want to argue with someone, why don't you come to those devoted IT threads on Bioware forums and do it there? Here no one is interested in discussing this bull, as you probably see. We want to discuss Mass Effect 3 here, not conspiracy theories (which are against the forum rules, if you don't know yet).

I wish anti-off-topic policy was endorsed here more harshly, we wouldn't have to waste our time in the first place.

[pateuvasiliu]

If you want to argue with someone, why don't you come to those devoted IT threads on Bioware forums and do it there? Here no one is interested in discussing this bull, as you probably see. We want to discuss Mass Effect 3 here, not conspiracy theories (which are against the forum rules, if you don't know yet).

I wish anti-off-topic policy was endorsed here more harshly, we wouldn't have to waste our time in the first place.

That's laughable at best.

How is it not fan fiction when bioware have never confirmed anything about IT actually being real?

They don't have to. The ingame events that cause it to exist do.

[zealo]

They don't have to. The ingame events that cause it to exist do.

You mean the in game events that contradicts itself if Shepard does not do certain content on his way through, assumptions and speculations being done about things that might or might not have happened at all instead of taking what the game actually tells the player visually about what is going on at face value?

The game never shows or describes shepard as indoctrinated on screen even once, that is just fan made mumbo jumbo trying to make sense of a badly written ending to a story.

[pateuvasiliu]

You mean the in game events that contradicts itself if Shepard does not do certain content on his way through, assumptions and speculations being done about things that might or might not have happened at all instead of taking what the game actually tells the player visually about what is going on at face value?

The game never shows or describes shepard as indoctrinated on screen even once, that is just fan made mumbo jumbo trying to make sense of a badly written ending to a story.

Possibly because the hints are subtle and not in your face?

[Kaelwryn]

Seems to happen every 50 pages or so, we call them The Horsebeaters.

Can we not? I'm not particularly fond of violence against horses. Not even imaginary horses.

[zealo]

Possibly because the hints are subtle and not in your face?

You making assumptions and speculations does not equal them actually being there, that is pure fan fiction.

[pateuvasiliu]

You making assumptions and speculations does not equal them actually being there, that is pure fan fiction.

Ah yes, the plethora of unexplicable proof that points towards IT ( dream trees suddenly showing up after Harbinger hits you, TIM's mind control conveniently looking the same as the dream sequences, Shepard bleeding from the same spot Anderson is shot in, Shepard looking like a Husk if he chooses Control or Synthesis ) is all just assumptions and speculations.

It's much easier to say '' Bioware fucked up '' ( which coveniently happened during those moments that strengthen IT ) than to stop and think.

[zealo]

Ah yes, the plethora of unexplicable proof that points towards IT ( dream trees suddenly showing up after Harbinger hits you, TIM's mind control conveniently looking the same as the dream sequences, Shepard bleeding from the same spot Anderson is shot in, Shepard looking like a Husk if he chooses Control or Synthesis ) is all just assumptions and speculations.

It's much easier to say '' Bioware fucked up '' ( which coveniently happened during those moments that strengthen IT ) than to stop and think.

Yes they are. There is nothing in the game that proves them as a fact and that is what IT relies on. I want you to point me to an audio file, something written in the game, a scene or a developer stating that it takes place inside shepards head. If you cannot do that it will never leave the "assumption" realm.

[May90]

Possibly because the hints are subtle and not in your face?

Guess what, Earth ruled by 6 pigs sitting on an observatory station on Saturn. What, you think I am bullshitting? You just don't see the subtle hints, they are not in your face.

This is old as Universe. Conspiracy theorists don't operate with logic, only with unprovable assumptions. That's why I asked you to go pester someone else with your theory, here we are discussing Mass Effect 3 and facts about it, not fan-fic assumptions.

[Deleted]

Can I take this moment to just vent my frustrations with the backlash against Mass Effect 3's ending? Something blown out of proportions so ridiculously that it boggles my mind?

I can understand exactly why people got such a bad feeling from it. I felt it to a certain degree too; I wanted a continuation of the Mass Effect universe. I wanted to see more of the characters. In fact, the reason for its backlash is due to the fact that it was such a beloved series. Now that's all fine an dandy. But disliking something is very different to creating a shit storm that states that the ending is so bad that it has to be changed, creating a toxicity to such a point where the writers are insulted and threatened.

Now, let me first debunk a few myths why it's bad:
1: Plot Holes
It's a lazy excuse but people cry this because they want to punch holes in something that they didn't like. The most prominent of these I heard was the "how did the party members get from the blast by Harbinger into the Normandy"? It was such a huge plot hole that a pointless little 10 second cutscene fixing it made it completely obsolete. And it obviously ruined the entire ending for some people.

2: Lack of Choice
This is the biggest myth of all. First of all, there is this myth that Mass Effect really has choices altogether. There has always been a "best ending", with a few variants, which ME3 up to its conclusion showed.

What do I mean by this? Well, the definition of choice in Mass Effect is rather "how much you fail", or "how little charm/intimidate you have" (because those two options just seem to work out the situation by default). Take the ending in Mass Effect 2, for instance. The supposed "choice" here would be how many of your crew survive. But in reality, all this means is how many mistakes you made and you generally not playing as you should. The only thing that would account for choice in this situation is if you -actively- put someone to death because you didn't like the character, but most of us probably aren't wired that way. There aren't really any tough decisions because there is always a best decision in Mass Effect. Oh, who do I save? The Quarians or the Geth? Well, actually, why don't I just charm my way out of it and make the entire thing obsolete?

The only real choice which matters is choosing between Ashley and Kaiden in ME1, because there is no objectively "best result" there. Same with the final decision in ME1 and 2; they were just minor differences that had no real consequence and were only referenced in passing manners in future installments.

However, when people bring up this point it's usually because it's compared to the fantastic ending of Mass Effect 2, and how all loyalty quest grind lead up to you actually achieving a "best ending". There really isn't such a thing in Mass Effect 3. You can choose allies left and right, but it's not going to affect the ending in any major way, other than if an arbitrary number is too low, your ending sequence is more catastrophic than otherwise.

This is what I think people mean by "no choice". The term is entirely false and it makes no sense, but it also brings to light what people expected out of the ending. Mass Effect endings to this point, with their "best results" have always been about trying to strive for the best ending, the Hollywood ending. The strife towards that ultimately was paid off because you got a smoochy doochy ending which has neither element of choice or greatness to it. People said it was just a choice between color because the endings had little effect on companions and Shepard overall. These people have totally missed the point and were probably not listening to the dialogue at all.

Which isn't what they were going for this time. Which is why exactly people got so angry. So it has nothing to do with plot holes, it has to do with differences in expectation. Quite simply, people didn't like it because it wasn't the Hollywood ending they had worked for.

But I kind of understood what they were going for here. It was different. I remember the ending to what is an otherwise bog standard BioWare story. It summed up the themes of Mass Effect quite nicely and posed this little problem that simultaneously explained the nature of the Reapers, but also involved a certain degree of choice. All it is, is a moral dilemma, and I figure that we all picked different endings. How we reasoned and how we chose those endings probably differs from person to person. That's all it was.

Most people seemed to dislike it for the sombre tone in general, and I can understand that. I personally liked it, because it made you feel like you had to make a sacrifice to beat the Reapers, and it made them live up to their reputation. A normal video game ending with Harbinger as a final boss fight would've just made the threat feel null altogether. So yeah, you can dislike it, but don't try and pull the bullshit that it was the worst ending ever because plot holes and lack of choices, because come on.

[Kaelwryn]

Can I take this moment, while this ancient thread is being necroe'd

Would like to just point out that this thread isn't being necro'd. We talk in here pretty regularly. Necro would imply that no one has posted in many months which isn't true.

[Deleted]

Would like to just point out that this thread isn't being necro'd. We talk in here pretty regularly. Necro would imply that no one has posted in many months which isn't true.

Ah, sorry, I just assumed that based upon the age of the game. I'll just edit that out.

[Adam Jensen]

Ah yes, the plethora of unexplicable proof that points towards IT ( dream trees suddenly showing up after Harbinger hits you, TIM's mind control conveniently looking the same as the dream sequences, Shepard bleeding from the same spot Anderson is shot in, Shepard looking like a Husk if he chooses Control or Synthesis ) is all just assumptions and speculations.

It's much easier to say '' Bioware fucked up '' ( which coveniently happened during those moments that strengthen IT ) than to stop and think.

It's much easier to say Al-Qaeda bombed the twin towers, than it is to stop and think.

Face it, that's what you sound like.

Shepard bleeding from the same spot? That's more animation laziness than anything else, its the same "i'm injured!" stance every humanoid skeleton in the game has.

Don't recall dream trees at the end of the game. Screenshot for clarification?

Shepard looking like a husk was the effect of Green/Blue dismantling Shepard's body, nothing more.