[Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps] vs [Experimental Specimen Slicer]

[rooffie]

^
Ret pallys are so RNG based as it is, so why would you add another RNG based factor into our class? The passive dps increase from H ESS is far superior to H gurth.

[Floross]

Ummmmm , H Gurth is still better than H Slicer.

[rooffie]

no its not

[pbad]

I didn't want to put much effort in to refuting an obviously baseless claim but you seem hellbent on spreading misinformation so here goes.

Both H Gurth and H ESS have the same weapon speed so that is irrelevant, overall str difference is +8 for the ESS with a 50 str gem so I'll be generous and give it 25 dps for that. On top of the strength H ESS has 362 Crit and 347 Mastery over H Gurth while H gurth has a 59 Wdps advantage and the proc.

So for H ESS we have: (347 * 2.347) + (362 * 2.084) + 25 = 1593.82
And for H Gurth we have: (59 * 11.511) + 2500 = 3179.15

In case math isn't your strong suit 3179 > 1593

So there's a direct comparison for the secondary stats of H ESS vs. the weapon dmg and proc of H Gurth. Curious where I got my stats weights and H Gurth proc value? They're in the images below. Generated from a 50k iteration SimC run of my armory, lastest SVN, self-built. Now, can the weapon theoretically never proc and essentially provide 0 dps over the course of a fight? Of course it can. It can also still proc at twice the expected rate and be double the 2500 figure. Both are extreme outliers but within the realm of possibility.

[rooffie]

Item Name iLvl Location H Str Cri Mas Has Hit Exp Rsk Bsk Ysk Prc Pointscore Min Dmg Max Dmg DPS Speed
Experimental Specimen Slicer
WH - MMOC - Battle.net 410
Dragon Soul
Yor'sahj the Unsleeping 529 362 347 0 0 0 4702.20 2526 4692 1002.5 3.6



Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps
WH - MMOC - Battle.net 416
Dragon Soul
Madness of Deathwing 581 0 0 0 0 0 4205.00 2672 4962 1060.3 3.6

stat weights.

Strength (Str) 5.0

Crit. Rating (Cri) 2.5

Mastery (Mas) 2.6

Haste (Has) 2.4

Hit Rating 3.0

Expertise (Exp) 2.85

Red Socket (Rsk) 250.0

Blue Socket (Bsk) 250.0

Yellow Socket (Ysk) 250.0

Pris. Socket (Psk) 250.0

Meta Socket (Msk) 400.0

Cog. Socket (Cog) 750.0

Weapon Proc (Prc) 1300.0

I think your stat weights are off...or you just decided to use your own....in which case are completely useless


i apologize for the jumbled mess

[Valedus]

But, H ESS is better than the Normal Gurth correct? (Not into Heroic modes, we are starting in a week or two, still working on finishing normal.) After the censure fix, I've been pretty confused. Is the priority from page one correct?

[Selgar]

Item Name iLvl Location H Str Cri Mas Has Hit Exp Rsk Bsk Ysk Prc Pointscore Min Dmg Max Dmg DPS Speed
Experimental Specimen Slicer
WH - MMOC - Battle.net 410
Dragon Soul
Yor'sahj the Unsleeping 529 362 347 0 0 0 4702.20 2526 4692 1002.5 3.6



Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps
WH - MMOC - Battle.net 416
Dragon Soul
Madness of Deathwing 581 0 0 0 0 0 4205.00 2672 4962 1060.3 3.6

stat weights.

Strength (Str) 5.0

Crit. Rating (Cri) 2.5

Mastery (Mas) 2.6

Haste (Has) 2.4

Hit Rating 3.0

Expertise (Exp) 2.85

Red Socket (Rsk) 250.0

Blue Socket (Bsk) 250.0

Yellow Socket (Ysk) 250.0

Pris. Socket (Psk) 250.0

Meta Socket (Msk) 400.0

Cog. Socket (Cog) 750.0

Weapon Proc (Prc) 1300.0

I think your stat weights are off...or you just decided to use your own....in which case are completely useless

Yeah... ummm Pbad is 100% correct. Stat weights are gleaned from actual data using your own gear (your weights may be different than Pbads) not a list that you copy from somewhere that is wildly inaccurate (blue socket same weight as red?!?).

But, H ESS is better than the Normal Gurth correct? (Not into Heroic modes, we are starting in a week or two, still working on finishing normal.) After the censure fix, I've been pretty confused. Is the priority from page one correct?

Yes H Slicer is better than N Gurth.

[Deleted]

i tested normal gurth arfter the "fix" on heroic ultraxion and got the amazing results of 0% uptime 0 dmg , yep over a 5 mins fight it didnt proc at all , so i vendored it and now use heroic slicer.

[pbad]

I gave explicit instructions as to where and how I obtained my stat weights. A simulation program most people generally trust called Simulation Craft. You just linked me a table with inflated numbers, 5 dps for 1 point of strength? I wish. 1300 dps for the weapon proc? That's extremely underrated.

In a simulated fight of 450 sec duration there are a total of 394.1 attacks that are able to proc the weapon. At a 2% proc rate this results in an average of 7.9 procs for the fight. Each proc results in an average of 141000 total damage. This is calculated from 14.8k average crit hits, and 23k average crit ticks, inherits character crit rate of 25.6% raid buffed, average of 8.5 ticks per proc. 7.9 procs * 141000 damage per proc = 1,113,900 total damage. 1,113,900 / 450 sec = 2475 dps.

Care to share where your table of stat weights came from? I've been very forward about mine. Also, my gear is very close to the BiS ret profile so my stat weights are going to be very close to BiS, which is what this whole discussion is about. If you'd like me to re-calculate stat weights in the exact BiS profile I'm more than happy to.

[waat]

i tested normal gurth arfter the "fix" on heroic ultraxion and got the amazing results of 0% uptime 0 dmg , yep over a 5 mins fight it didnt proc at all , so i vendored it and now use heroic slicer.

Gurth bugs on Ultrax. Most raids stack too far back for the proc to work, if you move closer to him it will proc and function properly, but H Slicer is still better so your end result was success.

[MasterOutlaw]

i tested normal gurth arfter the "fix" on heroic ultraxion and got the amazing results of 0% uptime 0 dmg , yep over a 5 mins fight it didnt proc at all , so i vendored it and now use heroic slicer.

Silly question, but were you standing close enough? Ultraxion has a large hitbox, but the sword has a deadspot in that encounter where the tentacles will spawn, but they won't actually attack the dragon even if you yourself are close enough to hit him (and even though they can cast that far). A good marker for the range would be around the 2nd line on the platform from the edge.

Edit: beaten to it!

[epicasta]

good RNG = gurth
bad RNG= slicer

[Midolftw]

rooffie - 0
pbad - 1

whats your ilvl again?

What's your progression again?
dont run around flaunting 397 ilvl, and a heroic morchock kill brah. doesn't make you look good

[thegoodrogue]

Probably got those stat weights (which don't seem to include weapon damage) from maxdps or something xF

[davep]

roofies, your weights show crit>haste but you reforged haste>crit. Obviously you know what you are doing.

[Butosai]

heroic gurth is better than all, end of story. next

[Deleted]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ooffies/simple

whats your ilvl again?

secondly, the proc does not nearly give the as much passive DPS as H ESS. Here ill run a sim, with my gear using both weapons (heroic mode of course) and ill post it on here. The proc rate from gurth is not enough to compensate for the passive amount of DPS ESS gives from mastery. Even with the higher max dmg it does not come close. you don't know what you are talking about.

You made yourself look so stupid in this thread, especially linking your awful char xD

[Rubert]

Their talking about your Gloves and boots, plz fix it.... my eyes hurt

Butosai, your my idol.

[Regen]

I'm still lol'ing at the armory link + "what's your iLvl again" defense.

As far as dw weapons to, it's really hard to outweigh the procs with a secondary stat. It would take one hell of an increase in weapon damage to beat that. Especially given what some people have said about it doing 17% of their damage on some fights.


Plus, don't swords fit paladins much better than axes? Be a paladin.

[Kisko]

2OP:

On average HM Gurth > HM Slicer > Norm Gurth > Norm Slicer, but if you are looking for rare high parse, you can go with norm Gurthalak instead of HM Slicer and hope for the high proc rate. Bell curve for Gurthalak is just wider ... to both sides, obviously.
That said, if you are progressing on HM Spine, I would discourage on using Gurthalak, because it's unlikely to proc in that critical 20s window.

ok. H gurth is not BIS. not even normal mode gurth is BIS.
...
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ooffies/simple
...
whats your ilvl again?
...
stat weights.
Strength (Str) 5.0

Please don't post again. Just don't.