How can there be no trinity?

[Deleted]

Best post in the thread.

Lots of nonsense being thrown around here. Edge, wins the forum.

Edge always wins i tried to say the same thing but i kinda failed or not failed, just didnt say it as beautiful as Edge did

[Cassandrea]

Okay, let's say it this way then. If it turns out that theorycrafting shows that one dungeon is easiest to beat with 5 mesmers, tell me which one of those cloth wearing bad asses is the tank, which one is the healer, and which 3 are the dps? When you can explain that to me then I'll agree that the holy trinity is alive and well. But until you can tell me how 5 cloth wearers contain a tank and a healer when none of them have a way to generate aggro and none of them have a targeted heal or even a spammable aoe heal, I'm going to continue believing that the holy trinity does not exist in GW2.

Every player has to be prepared to soak/deflect damage, support their fellow adventurers, and dish out damage. All of them. There is no designated tank or healer or damage dealer. They all need to be ready to do whatever the situation dictates. If you can't dodge attacks, heal yourself, deflect damage, toss up nice buffs, remove debuffs, and deal damage then you are not playing your profession properly and will only be an anchor weighing down progress in the harder dungeons...no matter which profession you play.

Not sure if trolling or...

5 Mesmers... easy

So there is a mixture of 6 creatures - lets say 3 ranged and 3 melee. 2 of the ranged attack the most damaging mesmers, 1 attacks the closest person, and the 3 melee all go after the lowest health. First off 5 mesmers pop all their illusions, and basically seek to distract the 3 melee. Focus damage on the ranged while dodging out of the way. When melee come after you, put port portal on the ground to avoid them while hitting them with spells.

Easy. It takes effort, and teamwork, and support - but it is ALWAYS DOABLE.

Like I said, stop using terms like cloth, leather, stats, tank, dps, healer - they are non existent in GW2

Yes heavy armour will mitigate more damage than cloth, but you will get pwnt in the face if you stand there and take it

[Edge-]

Edge always wins

Sometimes they call me Charlie Sheen, cause I'm always winning.

[Cassandrea]

THIS THREAD IS NOT WON YET... EDGE HAS NOT WONNNNNN


just gonna leave this here....



I wanted to win.... :<

[Deleted]

Sometimes they call me Charlie Sheen, cause I'm always winning.

lol! <3

It´s hard to make a post with 10 characters or more sometimes fyi.

[Deleted]

Because 1 dk can solo raid boss and ten can do much harder.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6Qr1LsRaGI

/thread

[Jaojin]

This is not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying there are PEOPLE defined as tanks, there could be more than 1, but their job is going to be to pick up mobs and prevent them from killing people who cannot take hits. Unless you are saying everyone can take hits

There is going to be someone who is involved in keeping people alive.

There is going to be someone who is involved in killing mobs.

Also I watched that video...they never said that NO one is going to have to heal, SOMEONE will it just sounds like ANYONE can fill that role. It doesn't mean that you don't have a healer in the group, it just means you don't have to have the SAME healer every time. So what is going to prevent all the arguments about who's going to fill what role? Again all it seems to be is they are blurring the lines such that people will have to sort out the system again.

It doesn't seem like there isn't going to be any healers, tanks, or dps...they just aren't fixed into their roles.

Also you are saying that you can actually switch abilities in combat? If that's the case how is it not going to be required to skill dance or some other convoluted thing to maximize your role?

I really hope this doesn't descend into people calling each other trolls because I haven't found a single civil discourse on how this non-trinity system ACTUALLY works...just a lot of speculation about how they say its supposed to work.

I was never a big Guild Wars fan, but a couple of months ago when I heard about this (removing the trinity) I was intrigued. I am sold now, by far none of the other aspects draw me in as much as this idea; cause I've been wanting something just like this for a LONG long time.

If you can heal, tank, and throw out damage, then it doesn't matter if there is ever a dedicated healer: if you need healing, drop back and heal. If someone is trying to fall back, you step up and tank. If everyone's good at the moment, then get a weapon and beat the **** out of something.

There will be people who are not very flexible or dynamic and will want to fill only a single role. But they will probably not be viewed as the best players, cause the system encourages you to be flexible and to use the one thing that the Trinity requires but can not enforce:

Teamwork.

[Deleted]

Because 1 dk can solo raid boss and ten can do much harder.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6Qr1LsRaGI

/thread

Anyone that get that music on an mp3 for me, will have my love until they die!

In Mif´s case, he gets cookies on the side.

[Palisis]

I think alot of players that are used to playing healers and tanks, are afraid that they no longer can go around on their high horse and say "you cant do this without me, you are dependent on me"

In my 10 years of playing MMOs, Ive never ever heard this.

[Deleted]

In my 10 years of playing MMOs, Ive never ever heard this.

Im not sure if you have engaged mode /sarcasm here honestly.

[Edge-]

In my 10 years of playing MMOs, Ive never ever heard this.

I've seen it a good amount in a few games. It's mainly a few individuals getting an inflated sense of value because they are fulfilling a role that few want to (tanking in WoW for example). They feel it makes them special and unique, which is one of the main reasons they did this. I had a friend that always wanted to play whatever class/role was "most needed", because he enjoyed the feeling of being needed for what role he fulfilled, not necessarily anything else.

[Deleted]

edgecrusherO0, using sarcasm should be an banable offence ..../jk


Or did i? <_< haha no but really sarcasm in text confuses me :S

[Repefe]

They died waiting for a healer. Ironic.

LoLoLoL.

/not enough lol 10 char

[Kaneth]

No I haven't, I'm trying to spark discussion on how this system will ACTUALLY work because right now I see a lot of fanbois running around yelling that there is no trinity when there is, its just not as define elsewhere.

Also I'm look at the system as a whole and what will become of it when the community gets it. We all would like to think that people don't reduce things to the simplest terms possible, but they do. The simpler the system is, he easier it is to understand.

There is threat in GW2 whether you think so or not. I'd truly hate to see what combat would be like if everything hit random targets all the time. Other than that a simple threat system does not only need to just be dmg in vs dmg out. WoW isn't that simple, it seems simple because all is revealed now. Once upon a time people didn't have a clue that there was a difference in threat gain between melee and ranged. There didn't know how healing threat worked...it was all a mystery. Until someone went out and hit a mob once, and had someone else hit it until it changed targets. They did that over and over for all the abilities until they had a rough idea of threat values for everything in the game. Just about that time Blizzard decided to put in their own threat meters.

So it doesn't matter if its contribution points, damage done, damage taken, healing done, whatever...its going to make a priority list of targets and therefore you have threat/aggro.

No where have a trolled or said anything other than what I believe. Yeah its depressing to think that people would kick others simply because they can, but it happens ALL THE TIME. People rate people on arbitrary measurements all the time, not because its a design choice, but because people will always try to pick the system apart into simpler and simpler rules until they can fully understand it. Then they will post it on a website and the roles of the classes will have been decided.

I think the biggest problem that WoW has right now is it leaves NOTHING to the imagination. Everything is in clear black and white terms...so you already know who's going to be the best. Its just a matter of putting it all together and making it work. There isn't any figuring things out anymore...

Heck unless you are on the cutting edge of raiding solutions and guides are out before the content even is...

---------- Post added 2012-02-06 at 05:19 PM ----------



What if no one wants to play the tanky role because their best gear is their DPS stuff or their skills are setup for DPS stuff. You can have duel spec right now in WoW, that doesn't change the fact that people still make people go back and respec in-between fights. So instead of changing their own spec they change out some skills. They still aren't necessarily playing the way the want to play.

You clearly are not understanding how GW2 works. There is no tank, there is no healer, there is no dps, and there are no specs (at least talent trees). Your combat bar is half determined by your weapons and the other half is from a selection of skills based on the slot (aka healing skill slot).

Everyone will have some form of a self heal, while professions have abilities tied to a specific weapon that will act as a group heal. Healing is either passive through damage (like a shadow priest), some type of a non targeted aoe heal, or even a ground targeted heal that others have to stand in (aka healing rain).

All fighting takes place from various ranges, there is closed range, mid range, and long range fighting. Those on the front lines will be taking the brunt of the damage, but they can't stand there forever, they'll have to fall back to self heal, or run through a heal of friend. While that person isn't holding aggro, they can physically place themselves between a mob and a friend and soak up damage, or block it outright (go watch the warrior skills video).

You seriously need to stop trying to put combat into WoW terms, because it's not apples to apples. ANet tests their dungeons to ensure that any group mix will be able to defeat said dungeon just as well as any other mix and match of professions. You will never need to wait for a tank, healer, specific type of dps, etc...

[Zeek Daniels]

Holy Trinity (WoW) = Tank, Healer, Damage
Holy Trinity (GW2) = Control, Support, Damage

Now let me explain why these are the same and different.

WoW's Holy trinity still falls under the same Holy Trinity as GW2. Tanks are a form of control, Healers are a retroactive form of support, and Damage is the same.

Now lets talk about tanks and them being a form of control.

Tanks in WoW are given an ability to take huge ammounts of damage compared to other classes and thus they are designed to gather all the mobs and keep the mobs focused on them. This is a basic form on Controlling. But their are others. Stuns, Incapacitation, Roots, Slows, Accuracy debuffs, etc. These are all forms of Control that are used in both WoW in GW2 however in WoW these are usually not needed when tanks are present since the damage you are trying to control can be taken by the tank, so it is not necessary to do these types of control.

In GW2 since there are no tanks these forms of Control will be what keeps groups alive. When theirs mobs and a ranged heavy group it will be up the each member to put down aoe slows, roots, stuns when enemies get close. For a melee heavy group using slows when running out to heal yourself.

Now for Support.

In WoW healers usually heal retroactively. Sometimes hots/bubbles are put up pre-emptively but im not going to get into that. When someone takes damage you heal them. This is also a basic form of support but its not as engaging a playstyle in terms of combat when you tend to focus on health bars and not everything else going on around you.

Now in GW2 Support is split into 2 categories, Defensive and Offensive. Now how can you defensively support someone? Well the guardian is a perfect example, Laying down a barrier that stops projectiles or putting down a wall that reflects projectiles are both defensive ways to support your allies and even control your enemies. Now an offensive version of support is when a thief throws a smoke bomb and not only blinds his enemies but also cloaks his allies. A guardian can trap an enemies inside his barrier which sets the enemies on fire and prevents him from escaping.

This style of play is alot more engaging when in combat and instead of watching health bars you are watching whats going on around so you know when to place down support and when to keep damageing or controlling.

[Jaerin]

Since OP doesn't want to listen all I have to say is have fun trying to heal or tank and being useless and kicked out of dungeon groups

This isn't about listening...this is about discussing how it works. Not sure why people are reducing this to whether I'm right or wrong..or if I'm going to play or not. I'm asking questions and providing scenarios to get a better idea of how the system will work.

So all the passion and frustration you guys have about me not listening is pointless. I don't care if you like the game or not. I'm asking how the system will work and what you guys think and question why you think that its going to be any different. I see a lot of terms thrown around and the base concepts are all still there the only real difference is that I see is everyone is hybrid.

[Deleted]

Jaerin the real diffrence are that you cant in the beginning of a dungeon run say "i take the role as (insert roll here)" and then go with that the rest of the dungeon, everyone will have to swap between doing diffrent things the entire run, therefor there is no trinity

[Derkin]

Anyone that get that music on an mp3 for me, will have my love until they die!

I would but can't send PM's yet.

[Cassandrea]

This isn't about listening...this is about discussing how it works. Not sure why people are reducing this to whether I'm right or wrong..or if I'm going to play or not. I'm asking questions and providing scenarios to get a better idea of how the system will work.

So all the passion and frustration you guys have about me not listening is pointless. I don't care if you like the game or not. I'm asking how the system will work and what you guys think and question why you think that its going to be any different. I see a lot of terms thrown around and the base concepts are all still there the only real difference is that I see is everyone is hybrid.

no sir.... no

there is no hybrid because there are no TANKS DPS OR HEALERS - THERE ARE NO HYBRIDS RARGH!!!!!!!!

They are just classes. Do you like to play a melee ranger, go sword and horn with a short bow, you want to play a ranged warrior, go play long bow warrior... there are no hybrids just classes - each class is different, each class has a gimmick, each class can heal take damage and dps...

[Deleted]

I would but can't send PM's yet.

You get right on that then once you can