Butosai's fix my retribution dps thread

[Butosai]

hello

ive read thru some posts for awhile and never really had a reason to post until lately. As i've been getting better gear i actually find my dps is getting worse and i'm having trouble pinpointing the problem area.

armory
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...elmakor/simple

Logs
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k...?s=8811&e=9072 (Ultraxion fight last night)

The only difference is im currently wearing my tier helm which i got form warmaster last night so it will not be in these logs. I think its just the timing of when i am using my cds but would like some other input. I really don't like my trinkets either but not 100% sure what to do with them.

Thanks

you need to drop acts of sacrifice and pick up blazing light. its pretty mandatory.

[Regen]

Comparing both 378 Trinkets I'd take VB over Apparatus, Now if you are going to farm FL for an upgrade Firestone then Apparatus is better but on the 378 level VB.

I already have the 391 version equipped >.>

[Deleted]

I found that 403 PVP gloves might be an improvement (~100dps in my case) against 5/5 T13, at least as I would have right now (that is: Heroic Chest, LFR Gauntlets rest of the pieces Normal)

[Lyreth]

Regen,


Kisko already did a trinket est here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...agon-Soul-4.3/


Pretty much H AoK is going to do much more for you because it lines up with cooldowns perfectly, has more str, and since you are doing CS-> TV mostly that mastery boosts that damage and then throw in divine purpose procs. Oh yeah did I mention the 4 set?


Normal Attack:

Weapon Damage + Str = attack -> mastery calculated = amount of damage you do.

Zealotry Avenging Wrath:

Weapon Damage + Str = attack -> mastery calculated x 38 (20 for avenging wrath and 18 for zeal 4 piece) = amount of damage you do

Now this means when VB lines up its good, but it does not line up as well as AoK. So the mastery boost paired with the cooldowns means a ton more damage because of the 38% increase to your damage. When VB does not line up your burst damage is significantly lower and paladins are burst then have consistent damage and burst again. The examples I put below are just off the top of my head and not actual numbers or anything like that but its assuming that VB may line up for about 10 seconds in one your burst. The point is why our cds and trinket line up is so important.

Lets say with VB you start fight and you burst at 60k then do 25k then burst again for 50k your dps is probably about 35k.

Now with H AoK you start the fight and burst 80k then do 25k and then burst 65k your dps is probably around 40k.

[Firegalus]

hello

ive read thru some posts for awhile and never really had a reason to post until lately. As i've been getting better gear i actually find my dps is getting worse and i'm having trouble pinpointing the problem area.

armory
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...elmakor/simple

Logs
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k...?s=8811&e=9072 (Ultraxion fight last night)

The only difference is im currently wearing my tier helm which i got form warmaster last night so it will not be in these logs. I think its just the timing of when i am using my cds but would like some other input. I really don't like my trinkets either but not 100% sure what to do with them.

Thanks

Looking specifically at the fight, your cd use isnt optinal, essentially you want to get your guardian coming off at the same time as zeal and avenging end so that you have max uptime with the full stacks of the buff from guardian

You also blew your 2nd set of cd early (if you know your only getting to use them twice, then you should have held them back and used them in line with heroism, in fact you should probably have held back guardian too and used it there instead of at the start). You should always know (ask fi you dont) when heroism is going to be blown and make sure that your cd's align with it

You accelerated stack also fell off just as heroism was cast, and your creche proc's didnt align with any of your cd's (i guess this is bad luck)

Also i cant tell whether your doing this or not, but make sure you have at least 22+sec of inq left before using your zeal+avenging, you definitely dont want to be having that drop off during

[Thakah]

Hello !
Ret is my second spec but I like to play it
So, if you have some idea to improve my dps
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hakah/advanced

For logs, I'm playing ret on some fight here : http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/gg6uh85dzpx1h38f/ (Hagara, Ultraxion, Warmaster and Madness) and here : http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/z07g99rgsqaz4pft/ (I was more accurate on my rotation in this I think)

At the time of this logs, I had just Varothen and Valor trinket, now I got BLF (RF) and Ragna (normal).

Thanks !

[Lyreth]

Hello !
Ret is my second spec but I like to play it
So, if you have some idea to improve my dps
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...hakah/advanced

For logs, I'm playing ret on some fight here : http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/gg6uh85dzpx1h38f/ (Hagara, Ultraxion, Warmaster and Madness) and here : http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/z07g99rgsqaz4pft/ (I was more accurate on my rotation in this I think)

At the time of this logs, I had just Varothen and Valor trinket, now I got BLF (RF) and Ragna (normal).

Thanks !

Put your points from guardian's favor into pursuit of justice. This is not just for the speed increase (which on fights like yor'sahj its really nice), but its another source of HP generation mostly used in 5 mans and things like that but still great none the less. I don't see a real occasion that you would BoP someone that often and hand of freedom cd being shortened is nice for heroic haggara as a free dispel inside the bubble, but if its on cds that is going to be your healers. Your trinkets are fine from what you have to work with. Your reforge is perfect so nothing to play around with there, but I would recommend getting the VP chest if its going to be awhile before you get your tier. If not use it on your neck since it will be BiS till the end of cata.

I suck at logs, but I can see that you didn't pot on haggara, which is an amazing combination of feedback, cds, and pot. This will raise your burst to closer to 100k. Most the fights you dps are actually less than 4 minutes so you are not going to have 2 sets of cooldowns which sucks for having high dps on a fight since ideally you want it to be about 4.5 minutes so you can do 2 cd rotations and then have the fight end. I am curious if you are clipping procs by mistake with your rotation. Are you currently doing

Inquisition up/maintain, crusader strike (if less than 3 holy power), divine purpose templars verdict, judgement (if less thatn 3 holy power), exorcism, templars verdict, hammer of wrath, holy wrath.

I will leave the world of logs to someone more skilled than myself though,I am not that great at it an probably would not give the best feedback.

---------- Post added 2012-02-29 at 09:52 AM ----------

I found that 403 PVP gloves might be an improvement (~100dps in my case) against 5/5 T13, at least as I would have right now (that is: Heroic Chest, LFR Gauntlets rest of the pieces Normal)

Tier: 350 with red gem and socket bonus
PVP: 392 with blue gem and socket bonus, but lose 200 secondary stat

I recommend getting the VP gloves as soon as you can since they have mastery and a str increase over 384s. It is a personal preference of str vs secondary stat. You currently are just shy of a point of mastery so VP gloves will actually give you 2 points which is a nice little increase. Since you are losing about 120 haste on the gloves it doesn't seem like much of a loss. I personally enjoy having a mastery haste build so I don't like to give up any secondary stats. Think of it this way, my current weapon speed is 3.1 without any haste buff, when I lose 80 haste I go to 3.3 (I assume it would be 3.4 for you if we had the same gear but you lost 40 more haste, but not sure on the break point). Now weapon speed is modified by 2 haste buffs, judgements of the pure which is 9% increase to weapon speed and the 5% melee haste from a shaman or something. Now your weapon speed is much lower causing more white damage AND also increasing your chances at an art of war proc. Sure 120 haste on paper doesn't look amazing when compared to str, but is it worth the 42 str to drop those stats? I stack str, but I couldn't justify a complete loss of 200 secondary for 42 str. I DO NOT know the ratio of str vs secondary stats so this is all based off my playstyle and if someone has that ratio I would love to see it. There are just too many variables for me to calculate it (mostly because I am lazy at numbers), but its up to you which you prefer just wanted to bring that to light and if anyone else has recommendations feel free to completely disagree because like I said I do not have the ratio to make the call. All I do know is VP gloves > LFR, Normal, PVP.

[Fredzilla]

I found that 403 PVP gloves might be an improvement (~100dps in my case) against 5/5 T13, at least as I would have right now (that is: Heroic Chest, LFR Gauntlets rest of the pieces Normal)

Haven't gotten the spine shoulders? They're bis for both normal and heroic

[Deleted]

Since I'll be getting my hands on Heroic T13 soon (hopefully asap as they drop) I'll test my current gear versus VP Gloves to see if it could be a significant increase, as the Hc T13 seemed to be worth ~500 dps (only tested that with 1k iterations).

These are Simcraft's results, using Patchwerk with all buffs against Humanoid Boss with Average player skill.

PVP Gloves: Average 42349 dps

• 1k iter: 42291 dps
• 10k iter: 42359 dps
• 25k iter: 42375 dps
• 50k iter: 42371 dps

VP Gloves: Average 42413,5 dps

• 1k iter: 42371 dps
• 10k iter: 42438 dps
• 25k iter: 42425 dps
• 50k iter: 42420 dps

So I think I'll expend my VP on tanking/alter gear until it's worth a lil more dps ^^U

@Fredzilla: Yes I'm aware, but we must be the worst guild in terms of Spine of Deathwing loot that ever existed. Sure we've been lucky the first month with DPS trinkets, but since then we only see the tank trinkets, mail belts (both our shamans have them, even the elemental has 2, one for ele one from resto) and shitloads of malestrom crystals from the leather boots. Not to mention we do 10mans.

[Thakah]

Holy sh*t thank for the spec, it's a stupid thing I had done to piss of a friend >_< (hunter )

Before a week, I didn't pot at all (not my first spec so ...) but I will for the futur, since I realy enjoy playing ret =)

Thanks !

[Liagala]

I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, but I need help here. I'm topping out at 33-34k dps on Ultraxion (on a good night), and from what I see everywhere else, that's pretty abysmal for someone starting to get into heroics (we're 1/8 right now). I'm going to try to get some logs together tomorrow night, but for now could someone take a look at my gear/reforging/talents/whatever and tell me if there's anything glaringly wrong there? I keep up to date with info here and on EJ and I thought I was doing it right, but Recount says otherwise.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...raene/advanced

[Faemn]

What changes if you change your gear pre-pull and use Guardian? I don't get it.

[Butosai]

I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, but I need help here. I'm topping out at 33-34k dps on Ultraxion (on a good night), and from what I see everywhere else, that's pretty abysmal for someone starting to get into heroics (we're 1/8 right now). I'm going to try to get some logs together tomorrow night, but for now could someone take a look at my gear/reforging/talents/whatever and tell me if there's anything glaringly wrong there? I keep up to date with info here and on EJ and I thought I was doing it right, but Recount says otherwise.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...raene/advanced

your gear looks fine. the skullstealer isnt helping you out much, but cant help you beyond that without logs.

@faemn
prot t11 4 peice increases guardian by 15 seconds so u use it before the pull and switch back to ret gear before you get in combat.

[Firegalus]

I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, but I need help here. I'm topping out at 33-34k dps on Ultraxion (on a good night), and from what I see everywhere else, that's pretty abysmal for someone starting to get into heroics (we're 1/8 right now). I'm going to try to get some logs together tomorrow night, but for now could someone take a look at my gear/reforging/talents/whatever and tell me if there's anything glaringly wrong there? I keep up to date with info here and on EJ and I thought I was doing it right, but Recount says otherwise.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...raene/advanced

Nothing wrong that i can see with reforging/talents/glyphs that i can see, a world of logs parse would probably show more and let the guys here check "how" you play, but i guess that the main issue is your weapon atm, gotta try and get that axe upgraded its the weak link as far as i can see (without any logs!)

[Liagala]

your gear looks fine. the skullstealer isnt helping you out much, but cant help you beyond that without logs.

Nothing wrong that i can see with reforging/talents/glyphs that i can see, a world of logs parse would probably show more and let the guys here check "how" you play, but i guess that the main issue is your weapon atm, gotta try and get that axe upgraded its the weak link as far as i can see (without any logs!)

I'll see what I can do about getting a log uploaded tomorrow night then. Thanks for checking! I know the axe isn't doing a lot for me, but my luck with weapons is kind of a running joke in my raid. I got that axe not long before DS - was using the one off Magmaw until then. I'll probably get Gurth or specimen slicer on our last raid before Pandaria. It's just how it works with me. I have 5-6 guys all running LFR with me every week on their warriors/paladins/DKs so we can lock down Gurthalak if it drops there, and we see nothing but caster or agility weapons every time.

[Regen]

Regen,


Kisko already did a trinket est here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...agon-Soul-4.3/


Pretty much H AoK is going to do much more for you because it lines up with cooldowns perfectly, has more str, and since you are doing CS-> TV mostly that mastery boosts that damage and then throw in divine purpose procs. Oh yeah did I mention the 4 set?


Normal Attack:

Weapon Damage + Str = attack -> mastery calculated = amount of damage you do.

Zealotry Avenging Wrath:

Weapon Damage + Str = attack -> mastery calculated x 38 (20 for avenging wrath and 18 for zeal 4 piece) = amount of damage you do

Now this means when VB lines up its good, but it does not line up as well as AoK. So the mastery boost paired with the cooldowns means a ton more damage because of the 38% increase to your damage. When VB does not line up your burst damage is significantly lower and paladins are burst then have consistent damage and burst again. The examples I put below are just off the top of my head and not actual numbers or anything like that but its assuming that VB may line up for about 10 seconds in one your burst. The point is why our cds and trinket line up is so important.

Lets say with VB you start fight and you burst at 60k then do 25k then burst again for 50k your dps is probably about 35k.

Now with H AoK you start the fight and burst 80k then do 25k and then burst 65k your dps is probably around 40k.

Yeah, I saw that. I was just wondering with the peculiar situation I had found myself in. But I got that straightened out and HAoK is a no brainer.

[Lyreth]

Glad to hear, the importance of trinket breakdown was more for general understanding instead of being aimed at you. Seems that there are a lot of people out there that are unaware of how important cds and trinket combos are.

[Requital]

you need to drop acts of sacrifice and pick up blazing light. its pretty mandatory.

My suggestion is - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/tal...VaSW!cWfhQlmnL

I use acts as well but only one point as 2 would be useless, I drop Repent as it's not used in raids really and I cover it there.

[Lyreth]

My suggestion is - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/tal...VaSW!cWfhQlmnL

I use acts as well but only one point as 2 would be useless, I drop Repent as it's not used in raids really and I cover it there.

I drop repent as well, its a rather worthless cc in any pve scenario since it breaks easy and is on a 1 minute timer. I recommend 1 point into acts IF you are running 10 man and are the only paladin. I just moved the extra point to divinity to help healers since I have a holy paladin that already has a reduced CD on hand of sacrifice, will never use salv on himself, and I find the slightly shorter cd on hand of freedom a waste. If you are the only pally then pick it up, it not divinity is another options for skipping repentance.

[wilcox1232]

Ya i changed my spec around moved everything out of art and over and dropped repent and thru the one point into selfless healer. I do like having the option of throwing out a wog at the right time and i do it quiet frequently when im soaking on morchok. I think the rest is just cds im with a new guild and still learning hwo they time things thanks for the tips