10% DS Nerf comfirmed for 2/28

[Toroc]

The 5% Debuff was huge. Next week should be interesting.

---------- Post added 2012-02-23 at 08:20 AM ----------

Before 5% nerf came we had never attempted spine hc due time limits. After 5% we 5-shotted it. Now same treatment to madness.

I don't even need facts to know that this is a lie lol.

[Moshots]

its crap they do it this soon. We raid 3 days a week got the buff killed warmaster and a few spine attempts, next week we had spine to 5th tendon, week 3 killed spine started on madness, so far 2 full days on madness have it to 4th platform should hit phase 2 tomorrow Might even kill it tomorrow since p2 is easier than 4th platform if you can pay attention for 2 minutes. So its stupid we Would have killed it at 5% but no if we don't kill it tomorrow we get to feel like crap killing it at 10% cause of blizz rushing a buff so players that don't deserve to do heroic content can do it. There excuse Oh we want people close to a boss to be able to work on next boss. THEN WHY NERF THE LAST BOSS So we can work on farming the instance in 3 hours for next 6 months? Stupid as shit last boss should be exempt from any buffs if you cant kill it without them you don't deserve titles/mounts I would have willingly waited another 2-3 weeks for spine kill and worked a extra few weeks on madness to get a achievement/mount that every shitty wont have. /end rant.

[thunderdragon2]

That's already happening with 5%

not on frostmane eu its not (not yet anyway) the highest ppl there are advertising for is 390 ilvl

[Conscious]

The 5% Debuff was huge. Next week should be interesting.

---------- Post added 2012-02-23 at 08:20 AM ----------



I don't even need facts to know that this is a lie lol.

It may not have been five shotted, but I have heard a lot of success stories involving one lockout clears after the 5%, for what it's worth.

[Toroc]

It may not have been five shotted, but I have heard a lot of success stories involving one lockout clears after the 5%, for what it's worth.

Hmm well when I think about it. I could see it being plausible if you were in a guild that was working on it a lot before the nerfs. Guilds like that had an easy time overcoming heroic spine because it was actually a huge nerf for them.

But if your new to the fight, it still will be a brick wall for your guild.

[Deleted]

Imo, its just like with normal PnP RPG. Whenever the group is so hopelessly out in the blue of whats going on you gotta throw them a bone. And usually, the group know they suck , there is no illusion there.

[Cakka]

Before 5% nerf came we had never attempted spine hc due time limits. After 5% we 5-shotted it. Now same treatment to madness.

Wow, lying about killing internet dragons...

[Seriss]

We're progressing on Spine right now (progress began when the 5%+15% nerfs had already been implemented), and to be honest... I don't think we'll manage to kill that encounter before the 10% nerf hits. Well, maybe if we get lucky or something... I don't know. We extended the ID even to get more tries in - though I do believe that especially all those alt mages could have used a bit more loot... and I'm still doubtful if it's such a good idea to bring alts, even if they play a supposedly OP class... I mean, barely anybody who isn't in a top guild plays their alt just as well as their main, and add to that the fact that your main tends to have more gear too...

Anyway... tendons barely going down, though we almost got the second tendon down once. It's all very dependent on who ends up in a Fiery Grip for a few moments. On the other hand, last night we brought 7 healers instead of the 6 we brought the weeks before but it didn't feel much different in regards to mana and/or hps. The incoming damage is just.... I don't know if it's supposed to be like that. When the main dispeller is gripped on the second part and I have to help out with a couple of GCDs on the dispells, the healing is just missing, and even with a healer more it was a disaster. Kudos to people who killed that encounter pre-nerf, seriously... And it isn't helping that poor little healers are getting poked by the Bloods all the time. There's still so much work to be done, so many things to be improved.

[Deleted]

I guess it was inevitable. ICC HM with 30% buff became a very nice place to pug with alts, it was actually a lot of fun for people involved (and I say this as a progression raider who killed LK HM on 15% as world's 40th ish).

Let's face it, if you don't have it down by now then you either don't raid (much) for whatever reason which is entirely your fault or you don't have what it takes and you need the buff.

[Deleted]

Here is the thing, as always.

If someone hasn't cleared 8/8 Hc, they are not hopeless to do it, nor they surely "need the nerf". In the 6 months of raid left, there is time more than enough to do kill it. Specially when a better measure will be number of wipes instead of time, since some guilds can pump a considerable higher of wipes in the same number of saves (in addition to needing less tries, ofc). 50 wipes per save on a new boss is something common on my guild, as long as they are not 1min wipes. I don't know if being 7/8 hc under that measure is baddie bad, normal, good, or whatever. What I do know, it's that we are able to finish it without accelerating it more due to buffs. I'm ok with needing 1 more month if it was it was going to take. That's the point if fact, it will be 1 month more with something to chew on. I enjoy raiding, and I do enjoy it being hard. For me, finishing a patch with 1 boss not killed > killing everything with months to spare.

That's my position, and why I'm bit on the "no more general nerfs" side. I understand people being in other positions (for example, I'm sure that nerf means for others more content, not less content).

Yes, there is the "option" of disable the debuff. I'm sorry, but the competition is not over yet. There is not only "world class league". You could say that there is "world class league", "national league", "server league" and "server-not pro league". And yep, just as I enjoy playing on a local tennis tournament, regardless of being shitty compared to Nadal and not appearing on the news, I enjoy competting with comparable guilds on my server.

I do like the suggestion of Blizzard of adding a FoS for doing it without the buff/debuff. It's one little thing more to look forward.

[Deleted]

Before 5% nerf came we had never attempted spine hc due time limits. After 5% we 5-shotted it. Now same treatment to madness.

Only that, the spine encounter was not only hit by the 5% nerf. Also.. It was nerfed with 15% to the tendon health. But, I still call bull.

[Toroc]

We're progressing on Spine right now (progress began when the 5%+15% nerfs had already been implemented), and to be honest... I don't think we'll manage to kill that encounter before the 10% nerf hits. Well, maybe if we get lucky or something... I don't know. We extended the ID even to get more tries in - though I do believe that especially all those alt mages could have used a bit more loot... and I'm still doubtful if it's such a good idea to bring alts, even if they play a supposedly OP class... I mean, barely anybody who isn't in a top guild plays their alt just as well as their main, and add to that the fact that your main tends to have more gear too...

Anyway... tendons barely going down, though we almost got the second tendon down once. It's all very dependent on who ends up in a Fiery Grip for a few moments. On the other hand, last night we brought 7 healers instead of the 6 we brought the weeks before but it didn't feel much different in regards to mana and/or hps. The incoming damage is just.... I don't know if it's supposed to be like that. When the main dispeller is gripped on the second part and I have to help out with a couple of GCDs on the dispells, the healing is just missing, and even with a healer more it was a disaster. Kudos to people who killed that encounter pre-nerf, seriously... And it isn't helping that poor little healers are getting poked by the Bloods all the time. There's still so much work to be done, so many things to be improved.

Just wait til you start work on the last plate. May be the most disheartening I've ever seen. Nobody said perseverance and faith was a part of the encounter... and maybe something to dry your eyes with

[Moshots]

I guess it was inevitable. ICC HM with 30% buff became a very nice place to pug with alts, it was actually a lot of fun for people involved (and I say this as a progression raider who killed LK HM on 15% as world's 40th ish).

Let's face it, if you don't have it down by now then you either don't raid (much) for whatever reason which is entirely your fault or you don't have what it takes and you need the buff.

so raiding should only be for the fat Cheetos eating people living in there mothers basements Living on welfare raiding 40 hours a week? Blizz said they would handle this buff with care 4 weeks isnt care 4 weeks is Here lets let the LFR retards be able to do heroic modes before the expansion is over because at this rate there will be a 50% buff lol.

---------- Post added 2012-02-23 at 10:24 AM ----------

Just wait til you start work on the last plate. May be the most disheartening I've ever seen. Nobody said perseverance and faith was a part of the encounter... and maybe something to dry your eyes with

it was before the 5% now its really not unless your dps is really bad. I mean we killed warmaster after the 5% and like 3 raid days later killed spine the first time we got 6th amalg down. and that was with only like 4-5 tendon 3 whipes all before/during 5th amalg blowup. You dont even need to use hero on the tendon at all you can use hero when the 6th amalg hits like 50-60% now to help healers whell burning it down and still have hero up during the blowup for healers to heal through it whell keeping up the kite tank.

[Deleted]

so raiding should only be for the fat Cheetos eating people living in there mothers basements Living on welfare raiding 40 hours a week?

First thing to get out of the way - if you can't maintain raid schedule at least 2 or 3 days a week where you progress for like 3.5h+ then yes, high end raiding isn't for you and your guild and if Blizzard did content according to your needs it would hold the entire game back immensely.

Second of all, there are skilled and unskilled people, obviously. Some group clears an encounter in 5 hours worth of attempts, some guild does it in 30, another one in 50 hours. If you are the unskilled ones you just don't have what it takes... And once again, if Blizzard did content according to your speed of progression... You get it.

Lastly, there is no way that raiding say 12-15 hours a week imposes on your life in any way at all. Most of the better guilds (not top 10 but say top 100) are composed of people with lives who have jobs, families or study at universities. People such as those you described aren't usually in good guilds because good raiders are often fairly gifted people who do well in school and later on continue that way on the job market. Most raiders, according to my experience with my guild or other guilds, are university students, phd candidates or university teachers though, because their schedule syncs up with raiding well. But you sure as hell can't say they are losers.

In our fairly competitive guild we had a roster of 29 people most of the time of which 2 were those leeches you describe, even those two at least had a job though (elevator repairman and dunno who was the 2nd one). No social life, lived with in their parents house but at least had a job.

[Nudle]

As a casual raider in a casual guild, the nerf will be welcomed since it will help our slow progression. However, I personally prefer Blizzard to take a look at the mechanics to see how to make the encounter easier rather than just a generic % health and damage reduction. Sometime, it is not how much health the boss has but rather what the boss does that is making it hard for some.

pfffffffffft no wonder this game has turned into what it is...geeesh |) monkey business

[Seriss]

it was before the 5% now its really not unless your dps is really bad. I mean we killed warmaster after the 5% and like 3 raid days later killed spine the first time we got 6th amalg down. and that was with only like 4-5 tendon 3 whipes all before/during 5th amalg blowup. You dont even need to use hero on the tendon at all you can use hero when the 6th amalg hits like 50-60% now to help healers whell burning it down and still have hero up during the blowup for healers to heal through it whell keeping up the kite tank.

Are you talking about 10 man or 25 man? I heard 10 man was a bit easier on that encounter whereas madness is supposedly somewhat easier for 25 man.

In any case... both our dps and probably healing too need to step up somewhat. I can't really tell what the dps are doing wrong, I can only comment from a healer point of view that there's too much damage incoming, that the bloods are nibbling on the healers every now and then, especially on the second plate, and that the amalgamations on the second plate should probably die earlier than they do. I guess I'll be browsing various forums for a few hints as to how to improve some stuff though most of the info that I've found so far is about 10-man (especially all the 'how to reforge and gear as a resto shaman for spine' stuff was all about 10-man and I figured that I'd have to adjust things a bit for my own needs, and I think I succeeded rather well).

[chunkycarl]

Seems a bit too quick tbh. Ahh well just means we might get further with our 25 man "loot farm" every few weeks (which is currently done with 21 people with 6/8 xD)

[Substi-TooTz]

Sadly no nerf will get my guildies to lock themselves down on Spine... same 3 are always derping in the center ... But overall if it saves us time i'm ok with it!

[Deleted]

spine -> acidentally kiling a tentacle to break it's stun jsut became more likely ->
madness -> acidentally making blisterings pop early becomes more likely to arive at same time as regen blood

ultraxon -> the dps race just became double easier as it means you last 5% longer during the last minute and you need to do 5% less damg to kill -> also hour of twilight soak posibilieis gets larger as people with less damg reduction can survive through one as the base damg you need to mitigate became 300k(original -> 285 5% -> 270 10%) and taking 270 down to survivable levels is a decent chunk easier than taking 300k down.

300k -> originaly needed a 40%ish reduction to take it to "easily survivable levels" -> 180k hp
285K-> needed a 35% reduction to take it to levels -> 185k hp
270k -> needs a 30% reduction to survive -> 189k hp

using a priests pw:s a much larger portion of your raid can now soak.

not many otherfights have the nerf effect the setup you can use as much -> except posibbly ping pong who can probably have more solo soakers than before

[Deleted]

Not happy with this tbh.

What does blizzard want us to do the next 5-6 months (at least till the addon comes) when you can easily run through the HMs without much(!) effort - keep in mind that there will still be nerfs coming.

Same tbh, my guild are 5/8 (Hc) and we're still steadily progressing each week. We aren't "ready" for the 10% buff, and i'm assuming most feel the same way.