I'll guard you. Let them come through ME first! - Guardian discussion thread.

[Deleted]

I still think they should change the name of Retreat to Charge.[COLOR="red"]

Or 'Move out!' or 'Forward!' or 'Make haste! or.. you get my meaning, Retreat doesn't seem right to me either but Charge is equally unfitting because sometimes you legitimately are using it to run away.

[Ynna]

Be sure to have 10 or more skill points saved for your elite skills. Unfortunately they moved the defensive elite to the bottom-most tier, so you'd need 30 saved (10x2 to get to the last tier, then 10 (maybe more?) for that skill). I only tried the Charr Elite Warband one (call 2 buddies) and the Invulnerability/refresh one, both were meh.

I wouldn't save points specifically for the Elites. They're kinda okay, but never truly amazing. I think you can get quite far without having them.

[Exedore]

Basic weapon skills on Guardian felt fine for the most part. More the utility skills and traits were problematic for me. Synergy just didn't feel quite so awesome no matter how I throw them together. Trait lines were so all over the place- never felt I was getting more powerful by investing in any of them.

I agree with that skill and trait assessment. Utility skills, even elites, seem more like a bunch of mediocre choices rather than a lot of appealing abilities. It's hard to complement weapon abilities well and it's also hard to make a selection of utility skills into a strong mechanic.

[Loaf Lord]

Anyone else feel like the visionary helm feels kind of out of place for a guardian as far as it's description? The whole "I will explore areas that others are too afraid of" feels like something a necromancer would do. You'd think guardians, who are all about honor and virtues blah blah, would be the first to stay away from "scary secrets".

[Ynna]

I agree with that skill and trait assessment. Utility skills, even elites, seem more like a bunch of mediocre choices rather than a lot of appealing abilities. It's hard to complement weapon abilities well and it's also hard to make a selection of utility skills into a strong mechanic.

I never really had that problem. With every build I made, it was rather clear what utilities I wanted. I did ignore most Consecrations and the Spirit Weapons. I don't think the problem is that the choices are hard to make, but rather too easy. (for example: an offensive Guardian takes Judge's Intervention, Smite and a damage increasing signet. A Spirit Weapon build takes a lot of Spirit Weapons. A Supportive build takes a lot of shouts...)

Anyone else feel like the visionary helm feels kind of out of place for a guardian as far as it's description? The whole "I will explore areas that others are too afraid of" feels like something a necromancer would do. You'd think guardians, who are all about honor and virtues blah blah, would be the first to stay away from "scary secrets".

Isn't truth a virtue? The truth can be hard or scary. Maybe the Guardians with the visionary helm proclaim they aren't afraid of the truth.

[AnnoDomini]

Or 'Move out!' or 'Forward!' or 'Make haste! or.. you get my meaning, Retreat doesn't seem right to me either but Charge is equally unfitting because sometimes you legitimately are using it to run away.

I posted a thread on the beta forums during BWE 2 suggesting that change as well, it doesnt make sense to yell "Retreat!" while running after someone who is trying to get away lol.

---------- Post added 2012-06-13 at 10:14 AM ----------

My only problem with the Guardian is that I would love to use the Greatsword and sword / shield combo but the Greatsword feels mediocre to me. Maybe it becomes more worthwhile with more traits invested towards the things it would benefit from. The whole, stand still and spin feels just wierd after playing a warrior where I dash forward and spin, I can use it as an attack or basically as a dodge to spin through an enemy thats about to smash my face while my dodge is on regen.

Now I know the Guardian spin also has some range to it through the discs that it throws off, but it still feels just wierd. I also tried comboing it with the Greatsword #5 skill, chain an enemy and pull them in, then spin but it was like inviting an enemy in PvE to maul my face off. Maybe I'll have to give that hammer a try next beta weekend or stress test.

[Ynna]

My only problem with the Guardian is that I would love to use the Greatsword and sword / shield combo but the Greatsword feels mediocre to me. Maybe it becomes more worthwhile with more traits invested towards the things it would benefit from. The whole, stand still and spin feels just weird after playing a warrior where I dash forward and spin, I can use it as an attack or basically as a dodge to spin through an enemy thats about to smash my face while my dodge is on regen.

Now I know the Guardian spin also has some range to it through the discs that it throws off, but it still feels just weird. I also tried comboing it with the Greatsword #5 skill, chain an enemy and pull them in, then spin but it was like inviting an enemy in PvE to maul my face off. Maybe I'll have to give that hammer a try next beta weekend or stress test.

I found the Greatsword to be one of the best weapons the Guardian had to offer (and certainly better than the Hammer). I found Whirling Wrath to be especially powerful (I only played Guardian, so I can't compare with other professions) and if you jump in and start whirling instantly, most of the time, the enemy won't have time to react. You can indeed also combo it with Binding Blace, and the knockback that provides should keep your face un-mauled. If you combine it with your Symbol, it becomes even more powerful.

The Greatsword/Sword+Shield should actually be a pretty solid combination. I can't immediately see why you would have much problems with it.
What level were you and what kind of content were you doing?

[Loaf Lord]

Isn't truth a virtue? The truth can be hard or scary. Maybe the Guardians with the visionary helm proclaim they aren't afraid of the truth.

I don't believe truth is a virtue. Honesty is though.

[AnnoDomini]

Oh no, I guess I really wasn't clear about that. The last hour or so of the beta event I was just messing around in PvE using the Greatsword and sword / shield combo. which seemed to work well together. The Greatsword moves 3 (spin)and 5(chain then pull) just were not impressive to me, but that is most likely because of my extensive time on a warrior which is much more mobile and feels like it hits harder.

I liked move 4 (leap of faith) but I wish I could trait it for a lower cooldown (maybe we can?).

Basically what I would try to do is Leap of faith (blinds multiple enemies) and then try to get my whirling wrath in. If a player was running from an enemy I would Bind them and then pull, then whirling wrath. Now I agree Whirling Wrath can be strong, especially if combined with Leap of faith or a Bane Signet for the knockdown. I think overall it just wasn't my style because Guardian felt less Mobile. More than likely it was because of whatever build or playstyle I was running, because they do have lots of tools. However I will give it another shot the next time we get to play. If I combine the short teleport on a Sword and Judge's Intervention that may work well for me. Maybe even "Retreat!" for the group mobility buff (needs a rename for sure)

Can Judge's Intervention be traited for a lower cooldown? Bulls charge on a warrior is 40 seconds and I believe you can trait to lower the cooldown on physical utility skills by 20% (so 32 seconds). Like I said, I'm really into mobile melee builds and I prefer the Guardian and Warrior archetypes to a Thief.

[Deleted]

I concur with Ynna - finding the Greatsword to be my preferred weapon of choice. Opening rotation would be:

Leap of Faith (which blinds them)
Symbol (the blind covers this being put down)
Spin

...and hey presto, they're dead if not very close to it.

[Ynna]

I concur with Ynna - finding the Greatsword to be my preferred weapon of choice. Opening rotation would be:

Leap of Faith (which blinds them)
Symbol (the blind covers this being put down)
Spin

...and hey presto, they're dead if not very close to it.

I used that combo extensively in PvP, with my boon/damage build. Martyr (Staff)>Switch to Greatsword>Leap of Faith>Symbol>Whirling Wrath. Combined with the Virtues trait that gives you more damage for each boon you have it's perfect.

Can Judge's Intervention be traited for a lower cooldown? Bulls charge on a warrior is 40 seconds and I believe you can trait to lower the cooldown on physical utility skills by 20% (so 32 seconds). Like I said, I'm really into mobile melee builds and I prefer the Guardian and Warrior archetypes to a Thief.

I believe you can trait Meditations (of which Judge's Intervention is one, if I recall correctly) to have a 20% lower cooldown, but it's in the Valor-line, which might not be worth it (although you only need ten points in it), but I think that using a trait just for one skill isn't all that great.
The most mobile melee build you're going to get is Greatsword/Sword and Judge's Intervention. Retreat! isn't really all that good in terms of mobility because of the cooldown (but is a good skill to have anyway). The build I used for mobility had the two signets that incapacitate enemies, to make up for the inherently low mobility.

[Deleted]

I absolutely adore the Greatsword in both PvP and PvE. Was even more fun putting up Purging Flames, placing them symbol down, then tagging them with Binding Blade, pulling them through the fire to cause burning(not sure if it did or not but meh was fun) and then just spinning everyone to death whilst curing conditions from the flames and the combo.

[Loaf Lord]

I concur with Ynna - finding the Greatsword to be my preferred weapon of choice. Opening rotation would be:

Leap of Faith (which blinds them)
Symbol (the blind covers this being put down)
Spin

...and hey presto, they're dead if not very close to it.

edit delited

[Deleted]

I used that combo extensively in PvP, with my boon/damage build. Martyr (Staff)>Switch to Greatsword>Leap of Faith>Symbol>Whirling Wrath. Combined with the Virtues trait that gives you more damage for each boon you have it's perfect.

Oh nice, not thought about combining it with the Staff. Will definitely look into that sort of build (if I remember for the next available play time).

[Loaf Lord]

I see spirit weapons are still crap. That's a shame.

[Cuchulainn]

Greatsword is pretty nice in PvP, unless you're going up against an ele or ranger, then you're fucked. You can't get close enough to those bastards to do any real damage, especially since LoF and Chains have such retardedly long CDs. 90% of the time I'm blowing meditation utilities and switching to my staff (or scepter/torch) in order to keep the damage flowing. It's pretty sad when you're able to get on their asses, because an ele will drop 5 AoEs that'll rape your holy hole, and the ranger does more damage with a two hander than a warrior.

It's just fucking ridiculous. Otherwise, I have no problems with other professions in PvP. Yes, even thieves aren't a problem.

[AnnoDomini]

Im messing around with trait lines trying to make a great sword and sword / shield build to try out. Also may make a sword / board and mace / board combo. Anyway Two handed Mastery needs to be moved out of the Honor trait line...there is utterly no reason for it to be there at all. Move it to Zeal or even Valor since they increase power and crit damage respectivly.

---------- Post added 2012-06-13 at 11:49 PM ----------

What moves count as consecrations besides Hallowed Ground? My only guesses are Purging Flames, Sanctuary and Wall of Reflection. I don't see anything on the tool tips saying they are, but it could be logical that they would be. I'm just curious because I was messing around with the Virtue trait line.

[Casper0878]

Quick question. If I should ever decide to go Sword/Shield - Mace/Shield combo, and I use a Shield ability then switch weapon sets, are my Shield abilities on the new set up and ready or will they still be on cooldown from the previous weapon set I used them on??

[Deleted]

During beta weekend 2 I tried to mix things up with the scepter and hammer, but went back to what I knew. Like most of you here I used the Great sword, but as an offhand I used the sword and focus. S+F are a great combo to initiate with, teleporting in, doing some damage blinding, then more damage, then shield up and swap to greatsword, blind with leap of faith, more damage, then a short knockdown using chains. It is absolutely great for destroying your opponents burst and taking no damage for a decent amount of time with 1 or 2 people around. I just need to figure out what skills to take!

[Deleted]

Quick question. If I should ever decide to go Sword/Shield - Mace/Shield combo, and I use a Shield ability then switch weapon sets, are my Shield abilities on the new set up and ready or will they still be on cooldown from the previous weapon set I used them on??

It will still be on cooldown, even if you use a different shield.