I'll guard you. Let them come through ME first! - Guardian discussion thread.

[DrakeWurrum]

The whole point to the "people are dumb" argument Zilong is that, across three BWEs, that's 9 days of playing the game.

After 9 days of playing WoW, most people would not have figured out a Warlock or a Shaman, but they could have easily figured out Paladins and Mages.

Ya dig?

By that same token, Guardians are the least complicated class in GW2. It's also the class that people most quickly associate with "Oh hey, this guy will protect me" because they're so similar to a Paladin. So many people coming from WoW, they're going to be playing the game with the incorrect assumption that no other classes can help keep them alive and support them.

Most of the people so eagerly searching for a Guardian to add to their group are the same people who, most likely, still believe that there are tanks and healers.

[Deleted]

A Guardian is indeed harder to keep alive than an Elementalist (the other profession I played), but, on the other hand, when things were getting hairy (being outnumbered or outskilled) a Guardian can only stave of the inevitable for so long. An Elementalist can actually get away.

A guardian is harder to play yes, but its also reallly rewarding for good play, a well played guardian is really hard to kill and can deny an objective from several oponents for a substantial period of time to allow other points to be taken or reinforcements to arrive.

---------- Post added 2012-07-25 at 10:39 PM ----------

By that same token, Guardians are the least complicated class in GW2.

lol whut? You know Anet have stated that guardians are designed to require more skill to play than classes such as warriors or elementalists? Likewise mesmers are designed to require more skill.

[grandpab]

Necromancers can defend a point, they can substitute a guardian. They lack the great area control a guardian has, the healing and support, and their role is more limited by their build. This is why a guardian is better at that job. They are also not as reliant on limited cooldowns like the necromancer, and I'm not sure if life force declines after combat, if so then there's another huge reason.

Death Shroud survivability got nerfed to shit already. Necromancers can't survive anywhere near as long as they could in the previous 2 betas. It helps a bit, but it's so much easier to damage through a necros death shroud now.

I tried a pure death shroud build just like I did in bwe2, yea...it was no where near as effective as it use to be. It felt like I hit a bit harder, but the survivability is waaay down.

[DrakeWurrum]

lol whut? You know Anet have stated that guardians are designed to require more skill to play than classes such as warriors or elementalists? Likewise mesmers are designed to require more skill.

They have not met their design intent, if that's the case.

[Adoris]

Hey everyone! I was messing around with some guardian builds on this website ( http://gw2skills.net/ ) and i noticed a pretty massive change to the staff. Martyr was gone and Save yourselves has appeared as a utility skill, essentially the same skill, just available to every weapon combo. Also the new staff "Empower" ability seems pretty dope. Channeling might and providing an AoE heal at the end seems quite good in group fights. Thing is, i didn't notice any of this last beta. True i didn't play the guardian for once, cause i focused on other classes. Can you confirm that change?

[DrakeWurrum]

It was definitely there in the last beta. I mentioned it earlier in the thread.

[tyralen]

There's a set of screen cap of a in game Q&A with Jon Peters where he lists the highest difficulty classes as the scholar classes + engineer. I'd post it but I don't really post here so I can't post links.

[grandpab]

I used the staff #4 a bunch on my asura guardian. It's my favorite animation, if you haven't seen an asura do it yet he jumps up on the staff and spins in circles on it.

[Adoris]

It was definitely there in the last beta. I mentioned it earlier in the thread.

I'm sorry, i admit i didn't scroll back much.

I used the staff #4 a bunch on my asura guardian. It's my favorite animation, if you haven't seen an asura do it yet he jumps up on the staff and spins in circles on it.

How did i miss this!? And thanks for the confirmation, guys! :P

[Zilong]

The whole point to the "people are dumb" argument Zilong is that, across three BWEs, that's 9 days of playing the game.

After 9 days of playing WoW, most people would not have figured out a Warlock or a Shaman, but they could have easily figured out Paladins and Mages.

Ya dig?

By that same token, Guardians are the least complicated class in GW2. It's also the class that people most quickly associate with "Oh hey, this guy will protect me" because they're so similar to a Paladin. So many people coming from WoW, they're going to be playing the game with the incorrect assumption that no other classes can help keep them alive and support them.

Most of the people so eagerly searching for a Guardian to add to their group are the same people who, most likely, still believe that there are tanks and healers.

Hmm I see that but I still don't think it's about the peoples mind set. Guardians are a huge easy mode in PvE for sure, which you can relate to paladins. And ok I can even agree with the mind set, which is not the issue here. The issue is that even with people HAVING other classes support in their team a Guardian at this moment is still the best way to go. This is not about the mind set, it's the fact that in sPvP the guardians are not wanted because ppl are thinking "Hey we need a tank/heals", they simply saw INSIDE THE GAME already (regardless of other games way of thinking) that guardians does it best no matter how focused other classes are in support. Not because they cant support, but simply because the guardian does it best. Which is fine, because thats the theme of the class, but it starts to be very annoying when 1 - Other classes support are usually focus in either boons, heal, control, survival having to neglect other parts of the "roles". 2 - Guardians not only does it best, but also does it in a very wide range of it. Even if you are not build for one of the above, you can still manage to do them, and if you are wise you do them good, and I'm not even going to go on damage.

My point is simple: It's not thru peoples mind that lies the problem. It's the experience inside the game that even tho short, already showed us a little unbalanced in that regard. Most people (and I've been talking to people in game researching on it, cause I cant open an thread here to everyone share their opinions, making it just in the "guardian thread".) tried build of support in sPvP including myself, and found that the guardian just does it best while surviving and having fun without having to be THE focus build. So no, I think its more about the experience so far!

A guardian is harder to play yes, but its also reallly rewarding for good play, a well played guardian is really hard to kill and can deny an objective from several oponents for a substantial period of time to allow other points to be taken or reinforcements to arrive.

Guardians are not hard to play. They are the easiest by far.

lol whut? You know Anet have stated that guardians are designed to require more skill to play than classes such as warriors or elementalists? Likewise mesmers are designed to require more skill.

Guardians by far are the easiest ones, to an extent if you just keep to one weapon and go with it every class can be somewhat forgiving in PvE. But certainly Guardians takes the care, by very far. If you are confused by that, post again and we can discuss . And about Anet statement, its def not true or if it is, its a fail.

Death Shroud survivability got nerfed to shit already. Necromancers can't survive anywhere near as long as they could in the previous 2 betas. It helps a bit, but it's so much easier to damage through a necros death shroud now.

I tried a pure death shroud build just like I did in bwe2, yea...it was no where near as effective as it use to be. It felt like I hit a bit harder, but the survivability is waaay down.

Yeah I noticed that, big big nerf on that part.

[DrakeWurrum]

Mindset will be a huge factor. I assure you, in BWE2, plenty of Guardians were like "I'm the tank!" in AC.

[rhinomatic]

I actually found the warrior a lot easier to play than the guardian. Maybe it was my weapon choices. Or maybe I just embraced "Support" more as a guardian and found myself with a lot more to do. I don't know.

[Ynna]

There's a lot I'd like to address, but I'm tired so it'll have to wait for tomorrow. I'd just like to respond to the Guardian skill-debate that seems to have sprung up.

I once ranked (and did rather accurately, if I may say so myself) the different professions by how hard they would be for a beginning player, and I ended up ranking the Guardian as easiest. Let's be real for a moment: playing a Guardian isn't that hard. Now, and this is the important part, playing a Guardian really, really well takes a lot of skill. A bad player can afford mistakes on a Guardian that s/he might not be able to on a different profession, but at average and high-end play, I don't think the difference is as big.

Guardians seem to embody the idea of "easy to learn, difficult to master".

[PonyCannon]

I don't think either profession was truly "hard" It might just be may of been a playstyle sort of thing.

The Guardian gave off more of a "Come at me, i dare you" sort of vibe while the warrior gave off a "Run away or you're done" sort of feeling. i was more comfortable with the more aggressive style so the warrior suited me more.

Thats just my take on it. Don't think any profession is notably "difficult".

[Yoshimiko]

I'll be honest - I only tried Guardian in BWE1, but I generally prefer ranged classes.

Can anyone tell me of ranged Guardians are any better than they were in bwe1?...I found they were the lowest damage of any class I played.

[grandpab]

I'll be honest - I only tried Guardian in BWE1, but I generally prefer ranged classes.

Can anyone tell me of ranged Guardians are any better than they were in bwe1?...I found they were the lowest damage of any class I played.

They're in a better spot now than they were in bwe1. Staff is an excellent support weapon. I'm not too sure what to think about the scepter though, it's been improved but it still feels a little lackluster.

[rhinomatic]

I found scepter to be rather boring. I really enjoyed staff though, but the range on the staff attack seemed to be rather limited for a ranged weapon.

[Yoshimiko]

They're in a better spot now than they were in bwe1. Staff is an excellent support weapon. I'm not too sure what to think about the scepter though, it's been improved but it still feels a little lackluster.

Ah.. I'm just split on what my 5th class is going to be( I plan on making all 5 asap, to reserve names)Ranger, thief, ele, engi, and either Mesmer, Necro or Guardian. Love the giant shield thing guardians do, along with their sword 2, but hate how little damage they do.

[grandpab]

Ah.. I'm just split on what my 5th class is going to be( I plan on making all 5 asap, to reserve names)Ranger, thief, ele, engi, and either Mesmer, Necro or Guardian. Love the giant shield thing guardians do, along with their sword 2, but hate how little damage they do.

The 3 for the 1 hand sword does a pretty good amount of damage now, the sword in general feels stronger than it use to, but the 3 stood out more than anything else to me.

[Exedore]

So how's Guardian with 2h swords right now? And Sword/shield?

Sword is very versatile and fits into a lot of different playstyles as both a primary and secondary weapon. It has a nice balance of offense, defense, and mobility. Shield is more for team support while focus is a little more for personal defense or offensive. Greatsword is more limited in the roles it can fill. It does much better area damage compared to the sword, but it lacks the defensive additions that the sword allows through off-hands. Compared to sword, the mobility is about the same. It's worth noting that Whirling Wrath no longer roots you; it only slows. That change didn't seem to make it into the tooltip in BWE3. I only read it after the fact, though I did notice I moved while using it sometimes during BWE3.

Can anyone tell me of ranged Guardians are any better than they were in bwe1?...I found they were the lowest damage of any class I played.

Their damage is still low. If you want damage as a guardian, you need a melee weapon. With a damage focus, the ranged weapons are there for an alternative when melee isn't a good idea. But both the staff and scepter are more support oriented than damage oriented and do very well in support roles.

I once ranked (and did rather accurately, if I may say so myself) the different professions by how hard they would be for a beginning player, and I ended up ranking the Guardian as easiest.

Really I think there are two lists: How easy it is to play competently and how easy it is to play exceptionally. Guardian is and easy profession with which to perform competently. It's very forgiving for a melee class because of Aegis, and the abilities are pretty straightforward in their usage. I'm not sure if I'd agree that guardian is easy to master. There are a lot of tricks and tactics that we still have yet to discover.