I'll guard you. Let them come through ME first! - Guardian discussion thread.

[Deleted]

Nice video. Not used much of the sword in pvp, but this makes me give it more thought.

Also, subbed on YT. =)

[rhandric]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...cussion-thread

[Larynx]

http://teamlegacy.net/_/gw2/sword-bo...en-a-deta-r622

[zeelive]

Nice video. Not used much of the sword in pvp, but this makes me give it more thought.

Also, subbed on YT. =)

Thank you mate !

[Ynna]

http://teamlegacy.net/_/gw2/sword-bo...en-a-deta-r622

It might be just me, but this felt fairly basic. I guess it can be useful to those who haven't played a Guardian (or haven't played it a lot), but for anyone with a couple of hours of Guardian experience, these things should be clear.

[Deleted]

It might be just me, but this felt fairly basic. I guess it can be useful to those who haven't played a Guardian (or haven't played it a lot), but for anyone with a couple of hours of Guardian experience, these things should be clear.

It was fairly basic. I expected a bit more "in-depth" from the almighty Team Legacy.

[Deleted]

It was fairly basic. I expected a bit more "in-depth" from the almighty Team Legacy.

not really much point at this time as that info is valid for BWE3 only, abilities may change between now and live. They changed between BWE2 and 3 quite significantly (increased ranges, new abilities on staff, one ability becomming a utility). And also stuff changed for the latest stress test (not sure about guardians, but sylvari racial for instnace changed from aoe to single target).

Its a nice overview, to get a feel for the weps if you need that.

---------- Post added 2012-08-07 at 11:16 AM ----------

If you want to see this build in action check this out !

Nice vid, but damm those mesmers near the start sucks, no dmg output, standing still to cast, using scepter...

[Deleted]

Nice vid, but damm those mesmers near the start sucks, no dmg output, standing still to cast, using scepter...

Oh yes, it'll be a good first few weeks fighting against people who play like that. Can't wait.

[Ynna]

Not really much point at this time as that info is valid for BWE3 only, abilities may change between now and live. They changed between BWE2 and 3 quite significantly (increased ranges, new abilities on staff, one ability becoming a utility). And also stuff changed for the latest stress test (not sure about guardians, but Sylvari racial for instance changed from AoE to single target).

Yeah, but what's the point in giving an overview of something you could see after 30 minutes in the Mists, or even reading the build calculators? I'd preferred it if it was a more in-depth guide, with the disclaimer that not all information may be valid after release. With the guide that there is now, only complete novices had some use out of it (I think). It's not that I don't like it (a guide is better than no guide), there just doesn't seem much of a point to it.

@zeelive: Nice video, and I see we have a similar playstyle when it comes to focusing people down. Just a few questions, though.
1) Why pick the Scepter? You hardly used it in the video and it's generally seen as one of the worst sPvP weapons we can pick. The only use might be the Incapacitate, but is that worth giving a weapon slot up for?

2) You seem to have spent a lot of resources on "incidental" healing (Life Steal on both weapons, heals with various traits). Did you feel this was needed to survive or was it just personal preference?

3) A lot of people seem to have troubles with estimating when to use their Virtues. I saw yours were on cooldown a lot (except for Virtue of Justice). What's your take on this?

[Deleted]

@zeelive: Nice video, and I see we have a similar playstyle when it comes to focusing people down. Just a few questions, though.
1) Why pick the Scepter? You hardly used it in the video and it's generally seen as one of the worst sPvP weapons we can pick. The only use might be the Incapacitate, but is that worth giving a weapon slot up for?

Scepter is not that bad, you can use it to control people with chains and its useful to swap to if you are being kited (though even then its a bit lacking), you can in certain situations generate large burst by "stacking" projectiles by exploiting its low travel speed, to create a barrage of shots as you close in.

Its not the best weapon by a long shot, but as the only real ranged option we have its got its uses. Though it probably suits a less aggressive playstyle, where you go more for support and control.

[Ynna]

Scepter is not that bad, you can use it to control people with chains and its useful to swap to if you are being kited (though even then its a bit lacking), you can in certain situations generate large burst by "stacking" projectiles by exploiting its low travel speed, to create a barrage of shots as you close in.

Its not the best weapon by a long shot, but as the only real ranged option we have its got its uses. Though it probably suits a less aggressive playstyle, where you go more for support and control.

I can understand using the Scepter (though I'm not planning on it ), but zeelive hardly used it, and it didn't seem like a good fit in his build/playstyle. I'd also like to use this opportunity to complain (again) that Arenanet apparently didn't have the foresight to see that Guardians were severely lacking in ranged weapons.

Incidentally and completely unrelated, is there any word on the fact that two-handed weapons effectively give you one Sigil less?

[Exedore]

Incidentally and completely unrelated, is there any word on the fact that two-handed weapons effectively give you one Sigil less?

After BWE2, ArenaNet said they had plans to remedy that. No specifics were given though and I didn't see any changes in BWE3.

[Meledelion]

I can understand using the Scepter (though I'm not planning on it ), but zeelive hardly used it, and it didn't seem like a good fit in his build/playstyle. I'd also like to use this opportunity to complain (again) that Arenanet apparently didn't have the foresight to see that Guardians were severely lacking in ranged weapons.

Incidentally and completely unrelated, is there any word on the fact that two-handed weapons effectively give you one Sigil less?

I think they'll play it off as a balance thing, you do more dmg using the two handers but you have to give up the sigil.

And I agree that the scepter doesn't really do much, in the 10min vid it gets used 2times I think.
I doubt anet didn't forsee this, I think it's their way of giving the guardian more balance. They are by far the best ranged tanks but they can't dish out ranged damage to compensate.

Imo lots of guardians seem to be scared of using their virtues. Especially courage is under used due it's (seemingly) long CD but having aegis up on a burst or kd is amasing, especially since you can chain it with a 'proc'.

[Ynna]

I doubt Anet didn't foresee this, I think it's their way of giving the guardian more balance. They are by far the best ranged tanks but they can't dish out ranged damage to compensate.

In my opinion, this would be a horrible way to balance things. From what we've seen in Guild Wars 2, using ranged weapons is downright needed in certain situations and a bit of extra survivability doesn't exactly measure up against the flexibility of switching from close to long-range combat.

Not just that, but during (or after) the second Beta Weekend, one of the devs said that the lack of ranged options in the Guardian was a problem and later a dev (maybe the same, maybe another, I can't remember) said that they couldn't add a new weapon to the Guardian this late in development. I, and others, have read this is somewhat of a regret to how the Guardian works are range (e.g. not at all).

The thing is, because they couldn't add a new weapon (Rifle, Longbow) they had to rework another weapon, which turned out to be the Scepter, which got a range increase. If this (admitted) problem were tackled earlier, we wouldn't be stuck with a mediocre-at-best ranged weapon. If ranged damage were a problem, they could have just made it a crappy Damage weapon, focusing on Support and/or Control instead.

My suggestion was something along the lines of:
Rifle
[1]: Justice Shot--> Range: 1200: Deals extra damage to a burning enemy
[2]: Cleansing Blast--> Range: 600; deal damage in a conal area and heals conditions to allies in the burst; Cooldown: 15
[3]: Symbol of Protection--> Range: 900, cooldown: 12
[4]: Purifying Shot--> Range: 1200 shoots a a bullet, burns foes and cleansing conditions of allies it passes, cooldown: 15
[5]: Flashing Bullet-->Follow your bullet to target enemy, knocking them down (1s) and granting nearby allies protection (or retaliation); cooldown: 30s

[Deleted]

In my opinion, this would be a horrible way to balance things. From what we've seen in Guild Wars 2, using ranged weapons is downright needed in certain situations and a bit of extra survivability doesn't exactly measure up against the flexibility of switching from close to long-range combat.

Not just that, but during (or after) the second Beta Weekend, one of the devs said that the lack of ranged options in the Guardian was a problem and later a dev (maybe the same, maybe another, I can't remember) said that they couldn't add a new weapon to the Guardian this late in development. I, and others, have read this is somewhat of a regret to how the Guardian works are range (e.g. not at all).

The thing is, because they couldn't add a new weapon (Rifle, Longbow) they had to rework another weapon, which turned out to be the Scepter, which got a range increase. If this (admitted) problem were tackled earlier, we wouldn't be stuck with a mediocre-at-best ranged weapon. If ranged damage were a problem, they could have just made it a crappy Damage weapon, focusing on Support and/or Control instead.

My suggestion was something along the lines of:
Rifle
[1]: Justice Shot--> Range: 1200: Deals extra damage to a burning enemy
[2]: Cleansing Blast--> Range: 600; deal damage in a conal area and heals conditions to allies in the burst; Cooldown: 15
[3]: Symbol of Protection--> Range: 900, cooldown: 12
[4]: Purifying Shot--> Range: 1200 shoots a a bullet, burns foes and cleansing conditions of allies it passes, cooldown: 15
[5]: Flashing Bullet-->Follow your bullet to target enemy, knocking them down (1s) and granting nearby allies protection (or retaliation); cooldown: 30s

yeah, was suggested in each beta, they said in BWE2 that they did not have the capacity to put a new weapon in at that late stage, so a rework of scepter (and focus and torch ranges) was the fix.

I like the abilities on the Icebow the elementalists use as a basis, and personally I prefer a longblow firing blue flaming projectiles over a rifle, but thats personal preference.

to be fair, they got scepter+OH to a point where its workable, if not very exciting or distinctive.

[DrakeWurrum]

They really should have just decided "Ya know what, we're adding the Longbow now."
I don't understand why it wasn't there originally, considering we have the Bow of Truth.

Fully agree that Scepter+OH really isn't very exciting.

[Ynna]

They really should have just decided "Ya know what, we're adding the Longbow now."
I don't understand why it wasn't there originally, considering we have the Bow of Truth.

This is kinda my point. And it should have been decided before the first beta event.

[DrakeWurrum]

I think it's silly for them to say that it's "too late"

I mean, it might be too late now, with only weeks to go, but when they first said it was too late, they hadn't even announced the release date yet. It couldn't take that long to develop a new kit for a profession where it's lacking some power, creating the new animations involved, and then balance it out against other professions and between weapon kits...

[Ynna]

[A]nd then balance it out against other professions and between weapon kits...

I think that's where the problem is. Making the skills and animation probably isn't as hard. The skills are quite modular, so I assume it's relatively easy to program and for animation you could just reskin from other skills. But making sure it's balanced is the hard part. It can't be underpowered, because that doesn't solve the problem of not having any decent ranged weapons, and if it's overpowered, you're giving the Guardian a lot of advantage on other professions.

[DrakeWurrum]

The problem though is that balancing the Scepter+OH setup to fill in the lack of a good ranged kit, and the role that it's supposed to normally fill, would in theory take even more work. Balance tweaking is something they can do during live anyways, if something is still not quite right.