Level 50 Content - How did BW screw up end game this bad?

[Trollsbane]

We knew what it was before the game even released. This really shouldn't be a surprise to any of you that were in this forum this last year. I'd venture to say you are not upset with this game's endgame content, you are just upset with MMO endgame content.

Also, give opinions on what the endgame should be like, and I'm 100% sure we can get more than a few reasons that it would not work, ways players would find to do unintended things, or reasons why many people would hate it. They had to take a route, and they took one that works. If it no longer works for you because you are tired of it from games in the past, that's not Bioware's fault. It's just you not liking what the masses do because of getting older or doing it so often before. There's no fault, especially with the developer.

[Bellomourn]

I havent PvPd in the 50s since mid January you are correct there. Between level 50 PvP and Ilums terribadness (which is dependant on server and faction of course)

You people should look at someones post history before you try to flame. I have been an avid supporter of this game, on these boards longer then most posters here.

Don't get all defensive because I'm "dissing your game" this is my game too. The end game content and character progression is just balls right now.
The first time you do everything it is cool, cause its new, but after a few weeks it is underwhelming.

This post was obviously a rant, tried to mix in some humor about the bugs (which were/are fucking annoying come on) and the terrible gearing system.

I have fun on my alts all the time, the game is great pre 50.

I'll be happy to vouch for you being an avid supporter. You were one of the biggest/longest supporters, in fact.

I'll go on to say, I absolutely agree with you. I burnt out by the 2nd week of January.
I had high hopes and enjoyed my time, but alas I got bored very quickly... in an almost eerily similar way to this narrative :P

My biggest piece of advice? Take a break from MMO's.

I actually decided to start a LARP group with some friends. We're up to about 45 people in a week - it's DAMN fun.

[Deleted]

IMO at level 50 you do what you want to do, and enjoy it. For me i am decked out in both full pvp (Champion) and pve (Mix of rakata and columi) on 2 toons but i still do the hm flashpoints/normal & hm ops and pvp ... why cuz i enjoy it, thats why i am paying for the game. The most fun part is tho making a mixed guild raid (2 guilds) of 24 people and go and rape the imp's on ilum -- its normally us 24 vs around 50+ sith ... we kill them, push them back, they kill us etc etc but its fun. Im not battlemaster yet, my 2 toons are around 45+ valor - but both has the same gear.

Yea the commendations are a bit rubbish but i use mine to gear up my pets (companions).

[misterbeefy117]

What do you expect? It was just recently launched. I don't think any MMO has had a smooth launch, and I'm not talking about launch day or launch week or whatever.

Sure, there's a small amount of things to do endgame, sure the bag system for pvp kinda sucks, sure it's a little convoluted as to what to do when you hit 50, but it's an MMO which is always in progress. Give them time. BW said that they're going to fix the bag system in 1.2 and it looks like there's some cool stuff headed out over the next few major patches. Just give it some time. Again, I don't think there's been a single MMO with perfect endgame from the get-go.

[vizzle]

I'll be happy to vouch for you being an avid supporter. You were one of the biggest/longest supporters, in fact.

I'll go on to say, I absolutely agree with you. I burnt out by the 2nd week of January.
I had high hopes and enjoyed my time, but alas I got bored very quickly... in an almost eerily similar way to this narrative :P

My biggest piece of advice? Take a break from MMO's.

I actually decided to start a LARP group with some friends. We're up to about 45 people in a week - it's DAMN fun.

I saw a video of LARPing once...

yeah... good on you though. *pat*

[Vulcanasm]

I saw a video of LARPing once...

yeah... good on you though. *pat*

Yeah, I was gonna say s/LARP/Pathfinder, but ... to each their own, I suppose. Given that I'm now spending my Wednesdays on a third party rehash of an outdated Dungeons and Dragons product, I'm hardly one to poke fun of people who like being vampires.

[ContentsMayVary]

There's an easy solution to all this, but it takes a long time: Cancel your account and check back in a year's time and see if it's any better. That's what I'm doing, anyways.

[Vulturia]

The problem, imo, is that you are paying 15$ per month for a game that does not have enough content to justify it.

Leveling, while well done in SWToR, gets boring after some time - or at least becomes something you are unwilling to do every day. Dailies are the same thing as leveling pretty much - faceroll easy solo content that you need to repeat over and over.
FPs are badly designed - the vast majority of your time in a FP is spent clearing trash and bosses which are annoying, easy and boring. There are some interesting bosses (though difficult only with 2-man groups), but the majority is, in every sense, trash.
Thus, you can do PvP (which you might not care about in the first place) or OPs (which require coordinating with 7 other people).

This is why I don't find it fun. If you casually log on, there is nothing interesting to do. And yet I need to pay regularly for it. Conclusion: same thing as WoW, and generally worse.

[Deleted]

The problem, imo, is that you are paying 15$ per month for a game that does not have enough content to justify it.

well I prefer to pay for some "real content" than 8 bosses in a rehashed instance with reused models. btw this is the first tier of the game, while wow is in their tier13 with one of the worst raids ever in a MMO.

[Parrin]

I LOVE this game! Why? Because it can be played as a single player RPG... 8 times. That means that no matter how many people miss the memo that Bioware spent tons of money on story quality, and space-bar to 50 without bothering with the quest stories, I will still be able to enjoy the game with the other players that love the quality of the 1-50 game. I've got 4 empire characters that I'm playing right now. The highest is 36 (my new main that I created about 5 weeks ago). The lowest is 15. Could I have made it to 50 on one of them if I had ignored the others? Probably. Who cares, though?

My only regret is that the game isn't a little less engaging. I still haven't finished Skyrim; and I haven't even picked up Kingdoms of Amalur. If I could truly enjoy the stories, and make it to 50 in a week or two, then I'd just log off and save the monthly subscription for a few months until the next Flashpoint or Operation is released. That would be a win-win.

[Synbaby]

There's an easy solution to all this, but it takes a long time: Cancel your account and check back in a year's time and see if it's any better. That's what I'm doing, anyways.

Yep just cancelled my sub last week as well. The lack of endgame doesn't bother me as much as the pvp imbalance, and the random bag rng. I understand I'm going to get rolled by a pre-made every time, I've accepted this. It is so frustrating joining a warzone on my juggernaunt, and going up against a team of mostly inquisitors/consulars or BH/troopers. Being throw off stuff and charging back then getting thrown again is annoying as shit. Then I get chain stunned to death.....

[Sephiracle]

This will end well.

Honestly, I agree. I hate dailies. I only did the dailies religiously only when the Argent Tournament came out to get the titles, and even then it was difficult to do so. Although, the nice thing is, normal ops are pretty easy, just get a couple purps from the AH and you should be good to go assuming you've geared up on the way up to 50.

[Venant]

If you enjoy the mechanics of the game and the people you play with, is it really such an issue that they haven't gated content to the extreme? You might actually have fun trying out another character, and if you have a moderate amount of credits you can even make your alt a twink.

The only way to make enough 'content' to last for months between patches would be to either:
1. Make it so challenging that it takes you months to actually down it
2. Make the mechanics fun in the same way an FPS game is fun, in that you are playing just to enjoy playing

[Nootz]

I don't understand why so many people don't like the endgame in swtor. It's a generic MMO, what do you expect? The only thing swtor did different was the leveling.

WoW endgame: PvP, dailies, heroics, raids, hard mode raids.

SWToR endgame: PvP, dailies, heroics, raids, hard mode raids (nightmare)

Either you like sci-fi and star wars or you like fantasy and Warcraft. WoW has had 7 years worth of expansions to add all of this "extra" little stuff to do which not everyone is into that sort of stuff anyway. Star wars certainly has a different "feel" than WoW, but it's far from bad. You either like it or you don't. If you're seriously that angry over an MMO then I suggest you take a break.

[Hellfury]

To be honest I think the content its meaty 7 hardmode fun FPS and 2 enjoyable raids, its just its consumed too rapidly and u gear too fast. May seem a oxymoron players complaining about gearing to fast, but to be honest and I never though I would say that but its funnier to do stuff when there is a carrot in front of your eyes, when there is a porpose a objective

I like the FPs and I would still do atlest 1 per day but there isnt reason for it anymore so why bother.

In terms of Multiplayer content at 50 there is stuff just gets done to fast. Now solo stuff there are just none, you may say to go level another char and Iam doing that but I would still like to do stuff with my main outside of raids and PVP(wich I dont do it)

[Leadsop]

I don't understand why so many people don't like the endgame in swtor. It's a generic MMO, what do you expect? The only thing swtor did different was the leveling.

WoW endgame: PvP, dailies, heroics, raids, hard mode raids.

SWToR endgame: PvP, dailies, heroics, raids, hard mode raids (nightmare)

Either you like sci-fi and star wars or you like fantasy and Warcraft. WoW has had 7 years worth of expansions to add all of this "extra" little stuff to do which not everyone is into that sort of stuff anyway. Star wars certainly has a different "feel" than WoW, but it's far from bad. You either like it or you don't. If you're seriously that angry over an MMO then I suggest you take a break.

In other news, the sky is falling, everyone is quitting SWTOR and going back to WoW, right? Maybe not...

http://www.vgarabia.com/2012/02/29/b...cuts-600-jobs/

Hm... SWTOR must be doing just fine... and probably much much much better than ActiBlizz thought they would...

[jearle]

I'll be happy to vouch for you being an avid supporter. You were one of the biggest/longest supporters, in fact.

I'll go on to say, I absolutely agree with you. I burnt out by the 2nd week of January.
I had high hopes and enjoyed my time, but alas I got bored very quickly... in an almost eerily similar way to this narrative :P

My biggest piece of advice? Take a break from MMO's.

I actually decided to start a LARP group with some friends. We're up to about 45 people in a week - it's DAMN fun.

I have cut back my mmo time alot due to a new job and new responsibilities and such so it isn't a terrible thing.

I enjoy my alt toons and the 10-49 PvP is really fun for the most part.

Would like to see them go in a different direction in the future, and possibly listen to the feedback of people who have played the game.
I wrote over 50 bug reports and several extensively long feedback reports during beta, the end game progression was one of them.
Even though at that time it was impossible to know it would be as bad as it turned out.

My friends and I had some fun in the game, but people new to MMOs or not accustomed to gearing and raiding don''t get turned on by.

We just killed this raid in Hard Mode, next week, same stuff but in NIGHTMARE.!

Hopefully the tide will turn, I won't cancel my sub because it is still worth it, just not at 50.

[Vulcanasm]

What do you expect? It was just recently launched. I don't think any MMO has had a smooth launch, and I'm not talking about launch day or launch week or whatever.

This isn't even the topic at hand. The launch was smooth. The problem (and the reason for this thread) was that it's natural to expect Bioware to place the same emphasis on endgame that they placed on the music, art, and voice acting. You'd think that the "most expensive game in history" (industry estimates place dev cost at $200-300 million) would have stepped back and said "wait a minute, who do we have working on making sure the game stays interesting at max. level?"

[Razeo]

Meh.... I'm in the same boat as the OP. Started researching ToR early 2010 and was excited for it; Come launch day, I couldn't put it down for about a week straight and took a few days off work just to play it, lol. Around late January I got burnt out, which was ironically a few days after I hit 50. Afterwards I tried leveling another character but seeing the same side-quests again for just the 2nd time was already taking its toll, it was cool seeing another character arch but the questing system overall is just too linear (by this I mean both side-quests design and map design.)

All of ToR's main selling points were only there for leveling from 1-50, come 50 there wasn't a single ounce of innovation. Too much like that "other game" (When I say innovation, no I don't mean "Revolutionary" I know how much that word gets mis-used around here. Nothing even evolutionary.) ;

- The LS/DS choices you make while leveling doesn't impact the endgame at all. (This is one of the things I was hoping and expecting for mainly)
- VO dialogue gets really bland after you've run the same heroics 10x. (I knew this would happen before the game was even released, but I didn't care.)
- No auto-attack, cool at level 1-10... once you get the hang of it though it feels like every other MMo combat style. (See above.)

But what really got me was how terribad Ilum was, so laggy it was nigh unplayable for me... I mean literally unplayable, search for a YT video of Ilum at 2-4 fps and you'll know what I mean. Warzones are bleh... would've enjoyed this more if they weren't exact copies. Huttball = WSG, Alderaan = AB, Voidstar = SoTA. Not to mention the ability lag *ugh*. These things arewhat really hit me hardest since i'm more of a pvp fan, I was hoping for an RvR lake type of thing since the people at Mythic were behind the pvp system for ToR. Looks like my faith was misplaced...... :/

Biggest problem for me about ToR was that they made it too much like WoW, down to the design core. If they probably made a Warzone like the old AV that probably would've gotten going for another few months, but with the graphics engine they're using I can probably understand why. If you love ToR though for what it is then I'm happy for you!

So here I am again, MMO-less waiting for the next big thing which would be GW2. Which is ironically the game I was looking forward to originally since it was first announced and if by any chance it flops for me personally (god forbid!) then I'm done with MMOs in general, maybe I am one of those people getting burnt out on the genre.

[juubear]

Stories like this give me a chuckle. This is the first tier of raid for a new game with new style and of healing / tanking to some people. it's meant to be easy and give you a feel for whats to come....