What do you think of the MoP talent system for Druids?

[HeroicDruid]

Ok, this not a QQ thread. I just want to know your opinion on the MoP talent system.

Honestly, I'm happy with the current talent system. I don't think they should change it.

What do you think?

[Champatron]

I like the option of not having to deal with treants, I hate having to cast them in fights because its so awkward. The DPS CDs they added with the new update look promising.

[Deleted]

I don't like the new talent system at all. I don't like how you have to to chose a particular move over another.Although it may be beneficial to different scenarios/encounters.I also can't help but notice how they are all more beneficial to PvP more than PvE.
Or is that just me?

[Quippi]

I don't like it either, because I'm annoyed as hell that our last tier is basically "Be better at something that is not your spec"x2 and Oh look you can break roots again.

[Raugnaut]

The last tier, for Heart of the Wild, is lacking in the tanking department. 95% armor buff for bear form will bearly amount to anything, compared to a Ferals 330% armor boost. It should at least be 180% armor boost, if not 220%. However, from looking at it by going healer and such, it seems to be decent, as a boomkin, feral, or Guardian can use it to pop Tranquility for a more powerful Tranq.

Beyond that, Might Bash should be either have a short cooldown, 30 seconds or so, or a higher range, 20-30 yrds. Mass Entanglement also has far too long a CD compared to the other talents. Renewal and Cenarion Ward seem to be underpowered when compared to Nature's Swiftness- 50% more powerful Duration and effect on a 1 minute CD is intense! Imagine a PS cyclone, followed up by a NS cyclone, for 10.5 seconds of Cyclone! or a NS Cyclone followed by a P cyclone for 11 seconds of cyclonage! I also think of this combined with Dream of Cenarius = impressive burst healing (Healing Touch, 80% more powerful if additive, bit less if not, instant, free, and usable in all forms!

I am wondering how Force of Nature will work. So far, the 15 and 60 talents seem to be fairly decent.

Dream of Cenarius will probably be nearly-mandatory for the majority of resto's, as one can cast a Wrath right before popping Tranq for a very powerful Tranq.

In terms of the spells? Ima miss Thorns, it seems to be gone completely. Ima miss Lifebloom as a non-resto, but I hope they buff it for resto! I think that Ironbark, the new Resto CD, should be on a significantly smaller CD, and that Barkskin should be baseline for all druids.

I am relatively happy with Guardian, we seem to actually be a real tank now! We get a 30% health heal, no CD, or a 40% damage reduction, no CD. We can also potentially hit armor cap- Im gonna guess that the druids way to gear will be Mastery till cap>Dodge>expertise>hit>crit>agility>haste (Yes, that right, Agility will be worth less then all other stats!) If they make Lacerate tick faster with Haste, or make Mangle's CD lower with haste, Haste might actually be better then Agility and be somewhat equivalent to Crit. Tanking ring/necks/cloaks with Dodge/Mastery will most likely be our BiS piece.

Having Vanish is gonna be exciting! Imagine the trolling- "KK, im tanking, im tanking, im tanking, im-------->NOT TANKING! SUCKERS! Vanish is exciting!

LvL 60 talents seems to be interesting. You either can choose between either throughput, or burst, or some-thing-we-are-ignoring-because-we-have-no-idea-what-it-does. Incarnation will be good for any fight where the tank will take heavy damage for a prolonged period, like Blackhorn, while Soul of the Forest will be better for fights like Hagara or Zon, where you are tanking for prolonged periods. For Resto, I feel that Soul of the Forest will be the best choice for tank healing, while Incarnation will be excellent for raid healing.

So, I feel some things need a bit more change, while others seem to be extremely nice as is.

[stormgust]

The current tree looks bland/boring/uninspired to what other classes trees currently offer, which is probably (not only) a direct result of the tree trying to offer something every druid spec can make use of. The problem is that, there is no common foundation in all of our specs, even moonkin is hard to bring onto a common foundation with restoration (see: Eclipse).
The "hybrid" style blizzard came up with (what else there is honestly?) will not be a solution. Either it's completely undesired (see: past expansion) or borderline overpowered, as the advantages gained by dynamically adapting raidsetup during an encounter cannot possible be balanced.

Dream of Cenarius will probably be nearly-mandatory for the majority of resto's, as one can cast a Wrath right before popping Tranq for a very powerful Tranq.

Until you make healing entirely predictable that's not gonna be how things will play out.

[BatteredRose]

I'm generally liking the Druid tree. There are a few things that seem a bit underwhelming, but of course trees aren't final yet, so I hope some decent changes are made before it goes live.

[RadmaKanow]

I don't like how you have to to chose a particular move over another.

Hehe. That's the whole point of new talent system. Choices. No more 15 mandatory must-have talents + 6 situational ones that suits your own preferences + 4 meh fillers. Now you get 3 talents to choose from and, in theory, all three should be equally interesting.

Permanent speed boost or charge? Decisions, decisions...
7 years made people used to situation when you get this AND this AND this. Now it will be this OR this OR this.

I like the direction where new talent system is heading. I don't want to discuss current state of talents. Sure, there are few really cool (like improved shapeshift aka uber form), few like wtf? (those that grant off-spec proficiency). It is long time till MoP release and things are to change. Even drastically. So there is really no point QQing/raging over certain talents. Alpha and Beta will mess with it so much that released version will say are those talents good or bad.

[Deleted]

The last tier, for Heart of the Wild, is lacking in the tanking department. 95% armor buff for bear form will bearly amount to anything, compared to a Ferals 330% armor boost.

I see what you did there...

I actually like the concept of the new talent tree, but the druid one is severely lacking compared to others. For example, I really like the paladin and warlock ones. They have a lot of new, fun stuff, most of it can be useful in both pve/pvp, and every spec has options that complement well their chosen role.

The druid one is a mish mash of utilities (some of those are good) and "hybridy" talents. Let's be clear on something: trying to be hybrid as a druid doesn't work, it never has, it never will. Especially not now that even boomkin and resto don't share the same ressource system.

If you look at another "super hybrid" class, there's the paladin: well all specs use mana as a base ressource, holy power for a lot of special abilities, their damage/healing is with holy spells, and they all use judgements. Even if their dps/tanking/healing mechanics are completely different from each other, they have this common base.

Druids don't. Guardians are in bear form and use rage, ferals are in cat form and use energy, resto stay in humanoid form and use mana, and balance are in moonkin form and use mana/Eclipse. And each of those form locks you out of any ability that isn't for your spec.

PS: on that note, if we do actually lose half our healing spells when specced balance, the restriction on casting healing spells in moonkin form should go. It was barely acceptable in cata when most dps classes got a way of healing themselves, but if they keep it in MoP where all classes get even more healing spells, it'll just be plain insulting.

[Findus707]

Wild CHarge, Renewal, Faerie Swarm, Force of Nature, Ursol's Vortex and Heart of the Wild, is going to be my "specc" atleast.

The new system is fine, and the numbers will change, so no real damage done.

[stormgust]

The new system is fine, and the numbers will change, so no real damage done.

It's fine in a vacuum. It certainly isn't when compared to 9 (soon to be 10) other classes.

Blizzard hopefully realizes that druids are in fact four classes rolled into one, and not one class with "three"(four actually :>) roles, and hence the tree needs to be treated as such. Hybridism was already proven to not be a suitable solution. The absurd numbers HotW needs to be actually useable (4-5 times what we currently have, given the lack of abilities and mastery) should provide a good estimate of how unreasonable hybrid design is.

[Deleted]

I'm Very exited! I'm not reading much about it at the moment because the talents can change alot during alpha/beta and i dont know how the new talents will scale with stats prio during MoP but im exited ^^ the talents has been dull and booring lately so im waiting for changes

[ELEDIN]

I see what you did there...

I actually like the concept of the new talent tree, but the druid one is severely lacking compared to others. For example, I really like the paladin and warlock ones. They have a lot of new, fun stuff, most of it can be useful in both pve/pvp, and every spec has options that complement well their chosen role.

The druid one is a mish mash of utilities (some of those are good) and "hybridy" talents. Let's be clear on something: trying to be hybrid as a druid doesn't work, it never has, it never will. Especially not now that even boomkin and resto don't share the same ressource system.

If you look at another "super hybrid" class, there's the paladin: well all specs use mana as a base ressource, holy power for a lot of special abilities, their damage/healing is with holy spells, and they all use judgements. Even if their dps/tanking/healing mechanics are completely different from each other, they have this common base.

Druids don't. Guardians are in bear form and use rage, ferals are in cat form and use energy, resto stay in humanoid form and use mana, and balance are in moonkin form and use mana/Eclipse. And each of those form locks you out of any ability that isn't for your spec.

PS: on that note, if we do actually lose half our healing spells when specced balance, the restriction on casting healing spells in moonkin form should go. It was barely acceptable in cata when most dps classes got a way of healing themselves, but if they keep it in MoP where all classes get even more healing spells, it'll just be plain insulting.

I totaly agree with what you said about moonkin form , in mist with only reju and ht its idiotic in every way to not let us heal in this form. At the same time if they remove it then the the form is only buff without providing any gameplay so there is not reason for this form to exist exept for the visual part.

They seperating our forms even more in mist and at the same time they give us hybrid talents making them less apealing.

[Pokty]

I think it's promising. I'm a bit worried about the new Insect Swarm, and how that will reduce our multi target damage, but hopefully they will buff our single target damage to compensate. Moonkin dps will still be highly reliant on being stationary due to Nature's Grace still being in the game; movement during Eclipse punishing you both in missed casts AND lowered NG uptime.

[Karnalsyn]

I'm not entirely happy with the segmentation of hybrid classes, but I'm sure I'll adapt and get used to it.

I fully understand blizzard wanting to bake in all the old talents that would buff certain abilities/spells in various ways, thereby eliminating the need to take a talent solely because it makes your spell better. But then I read the new Insect swarm and I'm like "What the frick?"

[Fiana]

It sucks.
There is no pve talents in this "talent system", so I see no usage of it.
No mater what spec you choose, you abilities will do same damage, and your rotation and playstyle will not change.
Whats the point of such "talent system"? You can completely ignore it, never even use a single talent point and still be viable in raids.

The talent spec I always wanted is ability-based talent system.
Lets take 25 talent points and let player to put them to any ability they want. Each talent increases your ability dps by 20%. It means that ability will do 200% more damage when maxed.
So the examples of such specs will be:
1) Rip:10, Rake:10, Shred:5 - bleed spec, you reforge to mastery and focus on keeping your dot uptime.
2) Shred:10, FB:10, SR:5 - agressive spec, you will reforge to haste and try to spam shred and finishers as much as possible
3) SR:5, Rip:5, Rake:5, Shred:5, fb:5 - intermediate spec, pretty much like current.
4) SR:10, Shred:10, FB:5 - "arp-like", autoattack spec.
All abilities should be balanced around each other so no matter what playstyle you choose you should be able to do exactly the same dps.

Ofc its very simplified, but I hope you got the point.

[Deleted]

I kinda like the 'forced shifting' blizzard is choosing...

[Icefalcon28]

From a Cat perspective there is one talent in the whole tree that will improve the preformance of the cats role (melee dps). Thus to me the entire thing seems like a waste. Besides Soul of the Forest the rest of the talents realy feel like they will benefit pvp and have no affect on pve other then gimic abilities. If i pvped i'd be stoked. I can see multiple cases where i'd use all of those abilities if i could have them all in any pvp encounter. Yet I mostly pve and i struggle to find cases where i'd use these new talents UNLESS the pve encounters in MOP will be heavly scripted fights unlike what we have seen and design a specific situations around us (HIGHLY UNLIKELY).

tier 1 - for raid encounters nothing really helpful, yes increased speed is okay, but more gimic then beneficial
tier 2 - I can heal myself, or protect the tank but nothing to improve dps
tier 3 - root things near the tank, might help with aoe dmg but it helps tanks more then dps, knock back though fun, knocking back is usually a dps decrease.
tier 4 - Soul of the forest will be taken hands down as it gives us energy back thus increasing dmg. Incarnation would be good and so would treants as they would help dps, but we can only choose one so they don't count. If these where spread out through the tree i'd be more excited about the other two talents as then they would be useful.
tier 5 - ursols vortex might be a cute gimic ability to help with melee aoe, but its the tanks job to gather mobs not ours so once again this helps out tanks more then us.
tier 6 - more hybrid stuff that won't affect our role directly but help other peoples roles.

Gimic stuff with only 1 new talent that will help out our role

Resto seems to get some neat stuff, balance seems to get some good stuff, even guardians/tank get some decent stuff. Yet kitties i feel get 1 good helpful ability but other then that there is nothing that helps our role.

I hope it changes. Other classes seem to get alot of stuff that helps or benefits their chosen role, except for druids.

[Deleted]

Hehe. That's the whole point of new talent system. Choices. No more 15 mandatory must-have talents + 6 situational ones that suits your own preferences + 4 meh fillers. Now you get 3 talents to choose from and, in theory, all three should be equally interesting.

Our current Talent Tree's are based on increasing general DPS, take Balance of Power for example, it increases our Arcane and Nature spell damage an additional 2%, that may not be much but it still does something, but i fail to see how our new talent tree does so. And i with our current Tree you don't necessarily have to chose particular abilities over others, as you get 41 talent points to place where ever, not necessarily in ability's, but in talents that increase damage done/decrease cast time for our current abilities. I'm just saying i prefer how it is now.

---------- Post added 2012-02-24 at 06:46 PM ----------

It sucks.
There is no pve talents in this "talent system", so I see no usage of it.
No mater what spec you choose, you abilities will do same damage, and your rotation and playstyle will not change.
Whats the point of such "talent system"? You can completely ignore it, never even use a single talent point and still be viable in raids.

I completely agree.

[Dead_MAX]

It sucks.
There is no pve talents in this "talent system", so I see no usage of it.
No mater what spec you choose, you abilities will do same damage, and your rotation and playstyle will not change.
Whats the point of such "talent system"? You can completely ignore it, never even use a single talent point and still be viable in raids.

The talent spec I always wanted is ability-based talent system.
Lets take 25 talent points and let player to put them to any ability they want. Each talent increases your ability dps by 20%. It means that ability will do 200% more damage when maxed.
So the examples of such specs will be:
1) Rip:10, Rake:10, Shred:5 - bleed spec, you reforge to mastery and focus on keeping your dot uptime.
2) Shred:10, FB:10, SR:5 - agressive spec, you will reforge to haste and try to spam shred and finishers as much as possible
3) SR:5, Rip:5, Rake:5, Shred:5, fb:5 - intermediate spec, pretty much like current.
4) SR:10, Shred:10, FB:5 - "arp-like", autoattack spec.
All abilities should be balanced around each other so no matter what playstyle you choose you should be able to do exactly the same dps.

Ofc its very simplified, but I hope you got the point.

.....Fail. There just would be calculator what is the best and you would choose like mongoloid....NOT FUN!