[Megathread] DotA 2

[PizzaSHARK]

Valve really needs to get off their ass and start doing something about the community - it needs to be the absolute top priority. I had two games in a row with some motherfucking douchebag troll that flames his team all game, and when you stand up for yourself, somehow YOU become the bad guy here.

Had a game as Slardar vs BH and Clinkz, I picked Slardar to counter them. I initiated for our team so our Treant could land better ultis, so I died a lot. I was something like 3/10/21 by the end of the game, the troll was playing Riki and was like 35/4/6 or something, constantly calling me (and for the first 3/4 of the game, Treant) noobs because we have very few kills.

But until we were able to steal a gem from their BH, I was the driving force behind our kills on Clinkz and BH. Yeah, I died a lot, but it's because I would blink in to be certain I could get a stun on their team and put truesight on clinkz or BH. This forces them to play defensively or die, allowing us to push effectively. If they stick around to fight, BH and Clinkz are fighting without their best tool.

These kinds of people have no business being allowed to play. I'm dead serious when I say I think the only thing that should be done is to have them dragged into the street and shot, but that'd be an insult to the gun and the bullet being used to execute that trash. If you're going to be some kind of massive fucking douche in a game, where everyone's there to have fun, what kind of shitbag are you in the real world?

[Hermanni]

I think you need to stop telling IF and Valve what to do about their game and find another way to vent than post lengthy descriptions of every game and player that pissed you off as a basis for your claims. I've gotten angry over a game once in my dota career and only thing I had to do about it was alt+f4 out of wc3 and do something else.

[Finear]

Valve really needs to get off their ass and start doing something about the community - it needs to be the absolute top priority. I had two games in a row with some motherfucking douchebag troll that flames his team all game, and when you stand up for yourself, somehow YOU become the bad guy here.

Had a game as Slardar vs BH and Clinkz, I picked Slardar to counter them. I initiated for our team so our Treant could land better ultis, so I died a lot. I was something like 3/10/21 by the end of the game, the troll was playing Riki and was like 35/4/6 or something, constantly calling me (and for the first 3/4 of the game, Treant) noobs because we have very few kills.

But until we were able to steal a gem from their BH, I was the driving force behind our kills on Clinkz and BH. Yeah, I died a lot, but it's because I would blink in to be certain I could get a stun on their team and put truesight on clinkz or BH. This forces them to play defensively or die, allowing us to push effectively. If they stick around to fight, BH and Clinkz are fighting without their best tool.

These kinds of people have no business being allowed to play. I'm dead serious when I say I think the only thing that should be done is to have them dragged into the street and shot, but that'd be an insult to the gun and the bullet being used to execute that trash. If you're going to be some kind of massive fucking douche in a game, where everyone's there to have fun, what kind of shitbag are you in the real world?

lol, you are so mad

if someone is not intentionally feeding etc. i dont care what hes saying
report him and move on

[PizzaSHARK]

I think you need to stop telling IF and Valve what to do about their game and find another way to vent than post lengthy descriptions of every game and player that pissed you off as a basis for your claims. I've gotten angry over a game once in my dota career and only thing I had to do about it was alt+f4 out of wc3 and do something else.

I see this logic a lot, and it's fucking retarded.

I want to play DotA 2. I want to enjoy my games. Most of the time, I do - I wouldn't play if I wasn't enjoying it.

But then you get these massive fucking twats that do nothing but flame and blame and rage all game, and it's ridiculous. They do it because they know they won't get punished for acting like a motherfucking child. The report system doesn't do shit because it's so easy to abuse, and there aren't any other means of trying to get rid of these people.

Yeah, I can play another game. I can go lift weights, I can go watch TV, I can go read a book, I can go cook a big meal, I can play a different game. But I want to play Dota, not do something else.

And yet you're blaming the victim, not the little twat that's been flaming since minute zero. Do you also tell rape victims that they were asking for it, that it was their fault?

I really want to know: WHY are you and so many others so tolerant of this trollish, douchey behavior? People just seem to accept that MOBA games have shitty communities infested with the video game equivalent of cancer - fucking WHY, though? Do you really think that it's something that can't be dealt with, that if enough people put their foot down and told the developer that this kind of behavior in their game's community is unacceptable that the dev would just ignore it, or tell them to deal with it?


And it's not just Dota, it's applied to virtually every game I've ever played that had multiplayer. These shitbags are fucking CANCER. So why are you just letting the cancer continue instead of treating it?

---------- Post added 2012-08-16 at 10:17 PM ----------

lol, you are so mad

if someone is not intentionally feeding etc. i dont care what hes saying
report him and move on

I always do. Report them, ignore them, and move on. But that's not satisfactory; you're essentially leaving the victims out to dry because reports don't do shit. By not punishing people for acting like this, you're basically telling them that behavior like that is completely fine. Do you understand that?

[Hermanni]

Not sure what logic it is that you're calling retarded. I don't read 75% of your posts because it's mostly you venting about how someone went 0/11 on clinkz and flamed you for it, and I'm probably not the only one. I wasn't actually telling you to do something else than play dota, what I was trying to emphasize was that all these years playing I got angry once when you seem to get mad over every bad game to the point you need to vent them in public forums. Like Finear suggested, you could simply do like most people and ignore > report > move on and perhaps express your dissatisfaction in a constructive manner (tip: claiming that "reports dont do shit" isn't constructive) in the dev forums instead of polluting the rest of the internet.

[Lysah]

I definitely got trigger happy with ignore, most people I play with get an auto ignore the second they open their mouth. Three minutes in when I go pull and my lane partner dies because he wasn't paying attention, yells "wtf no-" IGNORED. The end. Like I said before, when I solo queue, at this point, almost *every single game* there are 2-3 people already ignored when I load up. Is it a shame that I have to silence so many people in the community? Of course it is, but I'd rather play a quiet game than a game full of flaming.

At the end of the day, you have to pick your battles. As long as the horrible parts of the community continue to pay money they will exist. You'll save yourself a lot of hassle by finding the ignore feature, because honestly, even if the majority of the community got outraged, they aren't going to start mass banning anyone who calls someone a noobshit.

[PizzaSHARK]

Not sure what logic it is that you're calling retarded. I don't read 75% of your posts because it's mostly you venting about how someone went 0/11 on clinkz and flamed you for it, and I'm probably not the only one. I wasn't actually telling you to do something else than play dota, what I was trying to emphasize was that all these years playing I got angry once when you seem to get mad over every bad game to the point you need to vent them in public forums. Like Finear suggested, you could simply do like most people and ignore > report > move on and perhaps express your dissatisfaction in a constructive manner (tip: claiming that "reports dont do shit" isn't constructive) in the dev forums instead of polluting the rest of the internet.

It's cool dude, you can just ignore it

---------- Post added 2012-08-16 at 11:30 PM ----------

I definitely got trigger happy with ignore, most people I play with get an auto ignore the second they open their mouth. Three minutes in when I go pull and my lane partner dies because he wasn't paying attention, yells "wtf no-" IGNORED. The end. Like I said before, when I solo queue, at this point, almost *every single game* there are 2-3 people already ignored when I load up. Is it a shame that I have to silence so many people in the community? Of course it is, but I'd rather play a quiet game than a game full of flaming.

At the end of the day, you have to pick your battles. As long as the horrible parts of the community continue to pay money they will exist. You'll save yourself a lot of hassle by finding the ignore feature, because honestly, even if the majority of the community got outraged, they aren't going to start mass banning anyone who calls someone a noobshit.

And that's the problem. By not taking action when these people start ruining games, they're sending a message that it's okay to act like a dick to everyone you meet, that it's okay to flame people from 00:00 until the game ends. If sending PMs didn't require someone to accept you as a friend on Steam, you'd probably see the kind of post-game harassment that was pretty common when I played SC2.

What I want to know is, why are developers so tolerant of these behaviors? It violates pretty much every rule about being nice and friendly in the ToS or whatever else they make you agree to prior to being able to play, but in practice it seems like people acting like twats is paid as much attention to as someone going 45 in a 25 zone.

Wouldn't the developer want their game's community to become known for being welcoming, friendly, and absent of the human detritus that infests pretty much every other game out there? I've had games where everyone the game was polite, friendly, and the game was completely absent of the usual flaming and trolling you see in most games. Those games are what keep me playing, I guess - the hope that I can get another game like that, win or lose.

But then you get games where you have some arrogant little manchild flaming everyone from the word go, knowing his precious little shield of anonymity combined with the apparent apathy of the devs means he's beyond reproach. Those games are frustrating and often not a lot of fun, even if you win. So shouldn't those games be an extreme rarity, not the general rule?

And oddly enough, I don't think I've ever seen anyone use their mic to flame, it's always through text. I wonder if that's significant in some way.

[Lysah]

Why are developers so tolerant....



Money. Age old excuse, but it's true.

But of course people won't use their voice to flame, that makes them vulnerable because it makes the interaction personal.

[PizzaSHARK]

Why are developers so tolerant....



Money. Age old excuse, but it's true.

But of course people won't use their voice to flame, that makes them vulnerable because it makes the interaction personal.

I wonder if having a friendly, polite community devoid of the trolls would result in more income from people not getting turned off by the overly hostile people in games, though. Oh well.



Stealing Sniper's ulti with Rubick is hilarious. The only real balancing point for that specific skill is that the mana cost is pretty prohibitive for Sniper since he doesn't get mana and his INT isn't amazing. Rubick doesn't have those problems, though!

[Lysah]

I wonder if having a friendly, polite community devoid of the trolls would result in more income from people not getting turned off by the overly hostile people in games, though. Oh well.

Probably not, no. The game already doesn't cater to the kind of "casual" crowd that gets turned off by this behavior. Yeah it pisses the rest of us off, too, but we all still play, so they don't have to "fix" anything.

[PizzaSHARK]

Probably not, no. The game already doesn't cater to the kind of "casual" crowd that gets turned off by this behavior. Yeah it pisses the rest of us off, too, but we all still play, so they don't have to "fix" anything.

But again - if it pisses everyone off, why keep it? Does anyone actually ENJOY having some raging trashmouth manchild douchebag running his mouth all game instead of being friendly and polite? Would the money lost from a rather small minority of players (they're just a motherfucking VOCAL group of players) being perma-banned for general douchebaggery outweigh the benefits gained by having a community that becomes known for not tolerating anyone's bullshit?

Dota doesn't cater to the casual crowd but the community being infested with fuckwits is a very common complaint and very well-known, and I've seen people just give up on the game not because the game is complex, but because trying to learn and improve when you're getting nothing but a deluge of insults and douchebaggery from a particularly vocal manchild is discouraging... and, shit man, I could work tech support if I wanted to get yelled at by someone that thinks they're a genius.

More to the point, someone that quits your F2P game - for ANY reason - without buying stuff means you just lost money, and if you just lost that money because of some little cockbite raging at people... well, there's proof that those douchebags are costing you money.

[Valedus]

But again - if it pisses everyone off, why keep it? Would the money lost from a rather small minority of players (they're just a motherfucking VOCAL group of players) being perma-banned for general douchebaggery outweigh the benefits gained by having a community that becomes known for not tolerating anyone's bullshit?

Most of the peopel I see that are truly trolly douches, and this isn't often, have bought shit from the store and play heroes like Jugg, while me nor any of my buddies have bought anything from it.

[Lysah]

Yep.

Also please buff Undying.

[PizzaSHARK]

Most of the peopel I see that are truly trolly douches, and this isn't often, have bought shit from the store and play heroes like Jugg, while me nor any of my buddies have bought anything from it.

Works both ways. I was playing LoL when Riot added a thing that tracked all of your purchases, and I knew several people that had spent thousands of dollars in their store. In every case, these were all people that were honestly pretty poopy at the game - the kind of player that'd be potentially "scared off" by hostility. I'd actually enjoy seeing stats related to this kind of thing, but I doubt it's the sort of thing any company would make public.

---------- Post added 2012-08-17 at 03:01 AM ----------

Yep.

Also please buff Undying.

I think they just designed Dirge to get a never-ending stream of kills during laning phase and didn't really care about the rest.

[Ultraviolet Harmonies]

More to the point, someone that quits your F2P game - for ANY reason - without buying stuff means you just lost money, and if you just lost that money because of some little cockbite raging at people... well, there's proof that those douchebags are costing you money.

You're misusing the word proof. Valve makes more money through the cosmetic item store than what they would have if DotA2 had a $30 price tag. Right now, there's a kid in Kansas earning well over $150,000 annually on creating virtual hats for Valve.

If you were in charge, what would happen to these flamers? Additionally, have you ever flamed other people in DotA (I'm talking about in-game, not like this on public forums)?

Personally I think the current system is fine and functional. What basis do you have for claiming reports do fuck all? None, right? I've a friend who consistently gets 48h low-prio punishments because he flames others. Besides, how often could you get flamed? I've seen proper flaming in up to maybe five of my last one hundred games - while not counting shit like "this *hero*" or "omg *hero* noob wtf".

Here's the trailer for Valve's upcoming DotA2 Documentary:

[PizzaSHARK]

You're misusing the word proof. Valve makes more money through the cosmetic item store than what they would have if DotA2 had a $30 price tag. Right now, there's a kid in Kansas earning well over $150,000 annually on creating virtual hats for Valve.

Proof isn't the right word but it's the closest I could come up with on the fly. I know F2P is more profitable than a box sale because Valve doesn't make bad business decisions and EA's making noises about getting into the whole "F2P" thing.

If you were in charge, what would happen to these flamers? Additionally, have you ever flamed other people in DotA (I'm talking about in-game, not like this on public forums)?

Probably temp bans, not just low-prio, for repeat offenders anyway. The current system works fine for the ones that were just having a bad day or had a little too much to drink. But then again, they're still allowed to play in low priority, and they'll probably continue being a dick to other people in the low priority games. I'd describe the current system as adequate but not satisfactory, I think it can be improved. Whether it'd be a good business decision... no idea, really.

To the second part, yeah, I've lost my shit once or twice, but usually I just ignore them and focus on the game. I'm not a saint, and I'm not saying I'd be above punishment, but that's the point - being punished makes you rethink your actions unless you're a sociopath, and my opinion is that the current system isn't quite aggressive enough with doling out the punishments for being a dick. Shit, you could probably flick through my post history here and see my posts become consistently more and more within the rules as I got more and more irritated with earning myself bans.

Sometimes I still fire off and get myself banned, but for the most part being put in a time out results in me being more observant of the rules when I get out of that time out. That's kind of the concept I'm shooting for here, when I'm saying I think the system could use some improving.

But then again, unless they actually implement a limit on how many reports you can submit per day, I wouldn't want the system to be more aggressive - some dude I played LoL with a while back mentioned that he got thrown into low-prio queue because the enemy team (four of the five were Russians all queuing together) all reported him at the end of the game, despite him literally having said nothing all game besides "glhf."

Personally I think the current system is fine and functional. What basis do you have for claiming reports do fuck all? None, right? I've a friend who consistently gets 48h low-prio punishments because he flames others. Besides, how often could you get flamed? I've seen proper flaming in up to maybe five of my last one hundred games - while not counting shit like "this *hero*" or "omg *hero* noob wtf".

Anecdotal is anecdotal, obviously. But that's another thing - I think if you want people to really feel as if them reporting some guy for being a douche is actually doing something, you need at least SOME measure of transparency; like "hey you reported a douchebag (we can't say which one, sorry) earlier this week and today we took action against them thanks your report and the reports of others." I don't need to know who got punished, or how they got punished, but simply having the system fire off an automated message letting the player know their reporting some dude for being a douche ended up in them being punished for it... warm fuzzies, man. You know that feeling when you see some dick in a Mercedes fly down the road at 40 over the speed limit and then you top a hill and see him pulled over on the side of the road with a cop leaning in his window? Dat feel, that "eat it, bitch!" feel.

Flaming is uncommon even at my presumably low MMR, but that it happens at all or happens often enough for it to become just an "accepted" part of MOBA games is the problem, as far as I'm concerned.

[Lysah]

I think they just designed Dirge to get a never-ending stream of kills during laning phase and didn't really care about the rest.

IDD
And then I randomed bloodseeker. 730GPM says whaaaaat. More proof that WR is a horrible solo long because the enemy carry (like bloodseeker!) is gonna farm hard (like 13 minute radiance hard!). Of course, NA only ganked me once, but that's kind of how all games go.

Anyway, I also feel that the report system doesn't do much. I *HAVE* gotten back ONE notice that someone got "action taken against them." But for all I know that was one of the guys feeding chickens and force staffing people into hills that got a two hour low priority debuff.

[PizzaSHARK]

IDD
And then I randomed bloodseeker. 730GPM says whaaaaat. More proof that WR is a horrible solo long because the enemy carry (like bloodseeker!) is gonna farm hard (like 13 minute radiance hard!). Of course, NA only ganked me once, but that's kind of how all games go.

Anyway, I also feel that the report system doesn't do much. I *HAVE* gotten back ONE notice that someone got "action taken against them." But for all I know that was one of the guys feeding chickens and force staffing people into hills that got a two hour low priority debuff.

Had an enemy team pick SB and BS today. Personally I think they were better players than us, but... man, you're basically playing 3v5 with those two on your team :-/

[Deleted]

What level do you guys play at, if I may ask?

I hear people "Up there" in the skill brackets call Alchemist, Spirit Breaker, Bloodseeker and Sniper terrible heroes, but honestly I've yet to see it for myself. I've seen them do bad of course, but being completely useless - Never. I just find that in the majority of games, teams are too unorganized to deal with them properly. People have a habit of not carrying TP scrolls and not ganking at all, at least in some of the games I get.

The only one of those I see shut down on a regular basis is Sniper, mainly because a lot of people in the lower skill levels pick him.

[Hermanni]

It's cool dude, you can just ignore it

Like I said, I do ignore it, I just thought you might want to acknowledge the unique flower syndrome or whatever it is that makes you think your every thought is interesting enough to be documented. You're so obsessed with the bad end of the in-game community that you're falling into the bad end of the out of game community.

I never said the in-game community can't or shouldn't be improved by Valve, but right now their system is simpler and more efficient than what I saw in HoN and the community is overall healthier and in my opinion it absolutely fucking definitely shouldn't be their firstmost ultraimportant megapriority.