[Megathread] DotA 2

[kronpas]

Yup. Valve is eSports done right.

---------- Post added 2013-02-09 at 12:50 PM ----------

God, fuck Lycan. Still has one of the most stupidly broken ultimates in the game. I guess it's still nowhere near as bad as Drow's or as versatile as Doom, though.

The most broken is Storm. Or Naix. Or Tini. Or every other heroes that you dont know how to counter it. Lycan is somewhat like Drow, just stand your ground if you cant juke him.

[Charge me Doctor]

The most broken is Storm. Or Naix. Or Tini. Or every other heroes that you dont know how to counter it. Lycan is somewhat like Drow, just stand your ground if you cant juke him.

Tiny is easily countered by Repel. ALL HAIL REPEL.
Storm Spirit hates Magina or Diff. blade. Or anything that can drain his mana or CC him after engaging with ult.
Naix are very weak against windrunner. Or omniknights ultimate.

[Deleted]

and why would anyone buy a copy? Cause i can't imagine i am the only 1 that got 23 copies.

I have spammed copies to friends and randoms on this forum. Still got 15 invites left and getting new ones twice/month. You should be able to block it. Cause you can't delete them either. I have a CS:GO beta invite aswell. A little late and can't remove it. Just sitting there and looks sad at me

[PizzaSHARK]

I call that awful play and beyond awful excuse, but whatever.

edit: Actually didn't even read thoroughly enough to see you played Tinker... imagine if there was a 1600 gold item that would let you ignore Lycan infinitely and even safely TP out because the immunity wouldn't even break when using BoTs as opposed to normal TP scrolls. That would be just sick.

Imagine there's an item that gives an on-demand stun that ignores magic immunity. That'd be pretty great for stopping TP attempts, wouldn't it?

---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 07:43 AM ----------

You were dumb enough to not push their towers and halt their farm in min 15. If you let a team with full caries farm, they will punish you. You should have dominate all lanes, and harass Lycan's jungle(which is pretty easy to do so). Don't blame developers for your bad play. Also you weren't outplaying them, you were using enemy teams disadvantage at early game. Actually, you failed to use it.

Lanes were pushed to their t3's all game, didn't matter because we had no DPS. Like I said, just shit game design, heroes designed to be useless until they have specific items, then they're unstoppable. Also, heroes designed to be gamebreaking for 30 minutes, then they fall off a cliff and are basically useless. (Not Tinker, he's useful all game.)

Again, shit game design.

[Lysah]

Lanes were pushed to their t3's all game, didn't matter because we had no DPS. Like I said, just shit game design, heroes designed to be useless until they have specific items, then they're unstoppable. Also, heroes designed to be gamebreaking for 30 minutes, then they fall off a cliff and are basically useless. (Not Tinker, he's useful all game.)

Again, shit game design.

It's not so bad when you consider that teams are made up of multiple heroes. The better teams tend to pick heroes who mesh together in such a way that their early game heroes become ineffective right as their late game heroes pick up. A lot of heroes have a minute timer that you can safely say is their breaking point in any given game. You can watch heroes like Leoric around 35, AM is around 35, Medusa is around 45, Lich is around 25. It shouldn't surprise you that the team with stronger late game heroes wins more the longer the game lasts. How well you handle early game can vastly increase the amount of time you have, but you will still inevitably lose if you don't win. Any hero is a lot better with items, Rhasta goes from a 25 to a 45 with early scepter and euls. At the same time, Wolf goes from a 25 to a 45 if he gets interrupted and doesn't free farm vlads/book 3/BKB.

Take a look at current top picks and notice that they tend to completely crush this rule. Medusa is pretty much never going to be useful early game. She can hold a lane and maybe push some but won't have much damage in team fights. Juggernaut, on the other hand, is useful as early as level 3 and remains useful the entire game, ending up being one of the strongest carry picks in the game. Enigma never has a down time and will never lose relevance like other intelligence heroes. NS blossoms very, very early (first night ~8 minutes) and becomes an incredibly useful utility hero mid-late, never failing to be worth his spot on the team. People tend to favor heroes who do not die off or absolutely need build up time. On the other hand, you can bet that if people play Chinese doto and stack four early game heroes and a carry like Medusa that they will win if they buy her enough time. That's how the game is made, and if you want to beat that team, you can either try to stack five early game heroes and win while it's 4v5 or have a late game strong enough to stop a fed Medusa. Either way it will come down to playing your lineup better than they play theirs.

Rock/paper/scissors is not necessarily poor game design, one can easily argue that it is fantastic game design - though I think the MOBA genre sort of lends itself to this because every hero is only 20% of a team. A hero can be useless as hell like CM and still have at least some role in the grand scheme, and a hero can be ridiculously overpowered like Ursa but still not break games because there are 4 people other than his target who can interrupt him. In fact, in Ursa's case, this knack of DotA is so strong that he isn't even considered a good hero, despite being able to kill any other hero in the game in quite literally one second flat. If your entire team is paper instead of a balance of things, expect to beat heavy rock teams and lose to heavy scissor teams. If you like fairer games, pick fairer teams. Picking a heavy intelligence lineup is a very one-way road and you need to keep in mind the limits of each hero, and therefore the limits of the team.

[Hermanni]

Imagine there's an item that gives an on-demand stun that ignores magic immunity. That'd be pretty great for stopping TP attempts, wouldn't it?

---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 07:43 AM ----------



Lanes were pushed to their t3's all game, didn't matter because we had no DPS. Like I said, just shit game design, heroes designed to be useless until they have specific items, then they're unstoppable. Also, heroes designed to be gamebreaking for 30 minutes, then they fall off a cliff and are basically useless. (Not Tinker, he's useful all game.)

Again, shit game design.

So you can't win because your enemy spends 6700 on Abyssal which lasts 2 seconds against your 4 second Ghost Scepter? It's actually hilarious you didn't even mention Diffusal Blade, but then again like many others pointed out what I said was just a tip of the iceberg of the reasons why you lost.

You should just stop making excuses for your awful and play force-feeding us your stale opinions on 'game design', they're still as bad as they were n pages ago. No hero in the game is designed the way you describe, and none of them function in such way. Again your attempts of hyperbole to validate yourself are as obvious as your lack of understanding of any of the topics you attempt to discuss. Or perhaps you don't even completely lack understanding but just pretend to.

If you want everyone to know what you think of game design in dota, write a blog about it and put it in your sig where everyone interested can find it instead of posting it every 10 pages. If you actually want to debate game design or balance, at least try to build a somewhat neutral argument without hyperbole and with some basis outside of your opinions and I might put some effort into answering it (though I suppose Lysah already gave a good answer), or if you want advice ask for it and I'll be more than happy to give some. Your posts about how mad you are about how your games went and how that is someone else's fault (be it game designer or teammate) and how you appear to know everything about everything aren't very interesting to read.

[Deleted]

Is there anywhere i can pick a key for this? Fancy something different from LoL and after watching TB play a few games DotA 2 looks good. Also, how's the community?

[Deleted]

Is there anywhere i can pick a key for this? Fancy something different from LoL and after watching TB play a few games DotA 2 looks good. Also, how's the community?

Just add me and send me a message.

The community's as you'd expect. Low-tier is awful, mid-tier is sorta, top-tier is somewhere in between.

[Charge me Doctor]

Is there anywhere i can pick a key for this? Fancy something different from LoL and after watching TB play a few games DotA 2 looks good. Also, how's the community?

Community is horrible, everyone will blame you for losing and drop tons of shit on you after picking BH, BS, Drow and Riki. 1 out of 15 games will be OK, with friendly people who don't -random, don't flame and help each other.

If you want a key you can PM me right now, i will give mine steam id and send key

[Deleted]

Community is horrible, everyone will blame you for losing and drop tons of shit on you after picking BH, BS, Drow and Riki. 1 out of 15 games will be OK, with friendly people who don't -random, don't flame and help each other.

If you want a key you can PM me right now, i will give mine steam id and send key

ah the kinda community i expected then lol, PM sent!

[PizzaSHARK]

So you can't win because your enemy spends 6700 on Abyssal which lasts 2 seconds against your 4 second Ghost Scepter? It's actually hilarious you didn't even mention Diffusal Blade, but then again like many others pointed out what I said was just a tip of the iceberg of the reasons why you lost.

Pop scepter, begin TP cast. Cast interrupted by AB, ghost scepter ends before you can finish a rearm+TP again, you are dead.

[Deleted]

Pop scepter, begin TP cast. Cast interrupted by AB, ghost scepter ends before you can finish a rearm+TP again, you are dead.

Blind/Sheep him. If he has a BKB and your team is worthless get a Euls/Force Staff and try to outlast it, etc etc.

[Sarevokcz]

Blind/Sheep him. If he has a BKB and your team is worthless get a Euls/Force Staff and try to outlast it, etc etc.

dont you see? they all popped BKBs and abyssals so they could kill OP skill@ tinker who was singlehandedly demolishing them, while tinkets teamates were low prio -snip- with zero skill and 0/20 feed who never even participated in teamfights. Way more probable than tinker just not having the correct items or enough micro skills or correct decision making.

Please refrain from nationality-based slurs.

[Scummer]

ah the kinda community i expected then lol, PM sent!

The thing is that as a player who's new to traditional MOBA's and has heard a lot of people often rant about MOBA communities I really can't say I've found the community all that bad. I'm finding it just a load of hyperbole, maybe it's just luck but I haven't really had a problem with it. I've only encountered one person who really got under my nerves with his d-baggery. Even then the guides and videos about DOTA also show a nice community who actively create content and help people out.

I'm afraid to ask this question, but what are the fundamental differences between DOTA 2 and LoL? I've gotta say that playing DOTA 2 has very much got me intersted in the genre and I wanted to know what LoL was like as it can't hurt to play both.

[Lysah]

LoL is more rigid and defined in its playstyle, and is therefore easier and quicker to learn. LoL is also faster to respond and doesn't have things like turn rate and backswing built in to the game so there is less of an emphasis on APM/pointer accuracy. Otherwise, both revolve around team play and strategy, largely. The main difference I would point out is that if you dedicate the same amount of time to both games you will be a better player at LoL, sooner.

[OscaR]

Pop scepter, begin TP cast. Cast interrupted by AB, ghost scepter ends before you can finish a rearm+TP again, you are dead.

Force Staff, Blink, Cyclone, position yourself in a way so that they can't come close? By end game BKB lasts 5 seconds, if you can't be alive that long to get a hex off, it's kinda your fault.

Is there anywhere i can pick a key for this? Fancy something different from LoL and after watching TB play a few games DotA 2 looks good. Also, how's the community?

To be honest, I don't think it's as bad as people say it is cuz people will only talk about their bad experiences and not their good ones. As long as you play calm and not be an ass yourself, it's usually ok.

[Charge me Doctor]

I'm afraid to ask this question, but what are the fundamental differences between DOTA 2 and LoL? I've gotta say that playing DOTA 2 has very much got me intersted in the genre and I wanted to know what LoL was like as it can't hurt to play both.

In Dota you need to know map better than LoL, you don't want to spam abilities (since you will run OOM after 2-3 casts in early-mid game), you need to think about your health (ways to regenerate it), and remember such things like vision range, creeps pulls, destroyable trees. In short i can say that dota is more diverse and have higher skill cap than LoL due to more rewarding teamplay, utility items, much better CC and long-range skills.
And if you want a unfinished list, i will go with:
Night
Secret Paths
Secret/sidelane shop
Courier
Regen items
Mana managing
Leveling attributes
No (very little, orchid and aghanims scepter) spell damage increase items for casters
No AP/AD carry meta
Heroes who shines at early-middle game
Heroes who shines at late game or after getting decent farm (~30 minutes)
Shutting down farming carry (death takes gold from you)
Teleportation scrolls
Regen item sharing
Illusions
Runes (double damage, illusion, invisibility)

And if you want to play dota good, you will need at least 100 games to play, and even after it you will have alot to learn

[Enkidulgaa]

I'm afraid to ask this question, but what are the fundamental differences between DOTA 2 and LoL? I've gotta say that playing DOTA 2 has very much got me intersted in the genre and I wanted to know what LoL was like as it can't hurt to play both.

LoL is easier to learn but also has less diversity
You farm creeps, kill your lane opponent, gank a bit, ward, teamfight and push and thats basically it
Abilities rarely go beyond damage/aoe/disable/short range teleport
Every game basically has the same teamcomp. You have mage mid, rightclick carry+babysitter bottom, jungler, and some kind of early/mid game hero top and items boil down to damage, survivability or hybrid

Dota is more complicated and harder to learn but also pretty diverse
You'll probably want to learn what pulling/stacking/runes is and theres like two thousand different mechanics that are only important for a few heroes but basically every hero has some kind of weird mechanic (damage types/magic immunity/different types of disables/illusions)
Almost all items have an active effect that as important as your heroes abilities. Itembuilds are also fluid, you need to know when to get an item and why, not just "this hero buys this item because this guide says so"

[Morally Grey Storm]

wow...
I must admit, Tiny 'Aghanim is something.
just won a game where I would mow down everything I see while Naix tanks, slows and finishes wounded down like a boss.
not to mention it was a 4v5 from the beginning due to girly Leoric who did nothing through the game besides leeching occasional exp so he dont get AFK-tag.

[Charge me Doctor]

wow...
I must admit, Tiny 'Aghanim is something.
just won a game where I would mow down everything I see while Naix tanks, slows and finishes wounded down like a boss.
not to mention it was a 4v5 from the beginning due to girly Leoric who did nothing through the game besides leeching occasional exp so he dont get AFK-tag.

Aghanim + hyper + buriza rocks on him