[Megathread] DotA 2

[Hermanni]

I don't see what's the big deal, I rather wait a minute or two for someone that disconnected than turn the entire 40 minute game into a joke by playing 4v5 for any time when a difference could be made. And if someone politely asks for a short moment for non-disconnect pause, I don't mind that either. If it's a really stupid reason like "hey I need my hands to speak in my phone while I play because I never learned to wedge the phone between my shoulder and my head to free my hands" then someone I play with will usually unpause.

I rarely see pause abuse in my games, most of the time it's just "sorry his dota crashed he'll be back in a minute" "okay thanks" "np go." I never need pauses myself, but I don't feel like being a fuckwad about it when someone else needs one for a good reason, I can spend that part of my incredibly precious time tabbing out to reddit and IRC.

[Kuntantee]

@Sandman
Best way to deal with pause is a website. I generally alt-tab into MMO-C and check forums while waiting for game to continue.

[Sackman]

Well that's one way to look at things, I guess.

If that would be the case, why have a pause function in the first place? A 100% vote to pause would be virtually impossible to pass in a public game.

Ask yourself why this is, what the reasons are, and whether it is reasonable to expect people to always have to pause in public matchmaking. Then recognise why myself and Lysah are perhaps finding your argument asinine. Am I Lysah? No. Am I good enough to secure a double kill on a dual lane invoker Q build at lvl 4 and drow level 4, with double damage at level 7 on a ta with QEQWER build? Yes.

---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 07:16 PM ----------

@Sandman
Best way to deal with pause is a website. I generally alt-tab into MMO-C and check forums while waiting for game to continue.

I spam 9gag, and whatever. But I don't think I should have to. Its public matchmaking you know, it should just be a carefree way to have fun, not a really fair ultra competitive game. I would be happy with a 100% pause, when you know its like "hey this is an awesomely close game, everyone is having fun - everyone has time to wait, lets wait and see where this goes".

The fact that most think that "this will never happen" is most likely because people have lives - they dont like to wait and not everyone is always having fun. This should be respected, rather than this misconception that it is rude to unpause.

Crazyness.

[Hermanni]

No. Am I good enough to secure a double kill on a dual lane invoker Q build at lvl 4 and drow level 4, with double damage at level 7 on a ta with QEQWER build? Yes.

I don't see how this is relevant because your opponents were probably as bad as yourself. Truth is, I'm pretty sure majority of players are happy the pause feature exists, and even if you account for the abuse the overall effect should be positive because pauses results in fairer games and fairer games results in happier players instead of people ending games feeling disgruntled because they lost their rax because they couldn't defend 4v5.

As for self-entitled witless dicks like yourself, reading your rage makes me twice as satisfied with the feature.

[Sarevokcz]

Ask yourself why this is, what the reasons are, and whether it is reasonable to expect people to always have to pause in public matchmaking. Then recognise why myself and Lysah are perhaps finding your argument asinine. Am I Lysah? No. Am I good enough to secure a double kill on a dual lane invoker Q build at lvl 4 and drow level 4, with double damage at level 7 on a ta with QEQWER build? Yes.

Either you can secure the kill or you cant, the element of surprise should have close to no impact on the outcome. If you complain they might think of some tactic during the pause? Then they might have figured out it even without the pause (like what are they gonna think of? drow silencing you and both retreating asap?). And you got time during pause to call for teamates help, too.

And ask yourself this: If 8 people are willing to wait for DCed person and one is not, why isnt it reasonable to respect the rest?

[Hermanni]

If anyone should be interested, Fnatic just picked Meepo for n0tail in a game against VP.

[Sackman]

what? pauses from your team can be unpaused immediately, ragardless of if one of the other team dcs or not. and if you keep unpausing even after your teamates are pausing because they are actually decent people and are willing to wait, they will eventually give up. they will call you dick, but they will give up.

But I gotta agree with Longview. Get out of Talking Chimpanzee level of MMR and DCs and pauses are gonna be pretty rare. I have a pause in like one out of 10-15 games and more often that not I even get the explanation from their friend, that his PC crashed or power went down.

If you still cant stand DCs? get 4 more friends and host games and dont play MMR games. That simple.

Would you like a game? These "Chimpanzee level of MMR" are pretty funny comments, I want to see how you all actually play.

[Longview]

Ask yourself why this is, what the reasons are, and whether it is reasonable to expect people to always have to pause in public matchmaking.

It isn't, and I haven't said that it is.

Then recognise why myself and Lysah are perhaps finding your argument asinine.

Did she even respond to the post I made, in any way?

Am I good enough to secure a double kill on a dual lane invoker Q build at lvl 4 and drow level 4, with double damage at level 7 on a ta with QEQWER build?

Match ID?

Its public matchmaking you know, it should just be a carefree way to have fun, not a really fair ultra competitive game.

If you want to have fun while playing games, and you do not enjoy pauses or fairness (I'm not saying unpausing equals unfair either, it is really far from black and white), there are games out there that better suit your needs. But why should you have to consider what other people playing the game and the creators of said game think, right? You just want to play game! I get it.

I would be happy with a 100% pause, when you know its like "hey this is an awesomely close game, everyone is having fun - everyone has time to wait, lets wait and see where this goes".

I don't think this happens ever. Not only are close games not that common, I sincerely doubt that everyone would be having fun in one single game too.

The fact that most think that "this will never happen" is most likely because people have lives - they dont like to wait and not everyone is always having fun. This should be respected, rather than this misconception that it is rude to unpause.

People have lives? On the internet? Playing video games? I am sure they have, but I still do not see how what appears to be majority opinion (majority of vocal opinion of the dev.dota2.com-forum, anyway) would be a "misconception" in any way, shape, or form. Could you elaborate on that a bit perhaps?

Would you like a game? These "Chimpanzee level of MMR" are pretty funny comments, I want to see how you all actually play.

1v1 sf mid no items or you lose argument!!!

[Kuntantee]

I spam 9gag, and whatever. But I don't think I should have to. Its public matchmaking you know, it should just be a carefree way to have fun, not a really fair ultra competitive game. I would be happy with a 100% pause, when you know its like "hey this is an awesomely close game, everyone is having fun - everyone has time to wait, lets wait and see where this goes".

The fact that most think that "this will never happen" is most likely because people have lives - they dont like to wait and not everyone is always having fun. This should be respected, rather than this misconception that it is rude to unpause.

Crazyness.

Well, this is my first time someone complaining about pause function. I really don't see what is big deal. You gotta deal with it because valve won't remove it from game. Maybe tweak the working way a little but def. not a removal.

[Grimsdott]

Why exactly is leaving after game is safe to leave counted as a loss? I had a few games where someone from enemy team left after 2 mins cause 'FUCK LAGS' or 'SHIT TEAM CYKA' so seeing how there's no point playing 4v5, I left and queued up for next. After a while I noticed that some of those games were counted as a loss even though there shouldn't even be any stats counted for games with early abandonment.

What gives.

[Longview]

Why exactly is leaving after game is safe to leave counted as a loss? I had a few games where someone from enemy team left after 2 mins cause 'FUCK LAGS' or 'SHIT TEAM CYKA' so seeing how there's no point playing 4v5, I left and queued up for next. After a while I noticed that some of those games were counted as a loss even though there shouldn't even be any stats counted for games with early abandonment.

What gives.

Early abandonment games count towards your wins/losses if any of the following are true:

• Game has gone on for five minutes or more
• First Blood has happened
• A tower is dead

Most people leave those games anyway, but if you care enough you should stay connected until everyone on the opposing team disconnects. This gives you a win.

[Sackman]

I don't see how this is relevant because your opponents were probably as bad as yourself. Truth is, I'm pretty sure majority of players are happy the pause feature exists, and even if you account for the abuse the overall effect should be positive because pauses results in fairer games and fairer games results in happier players instead of people ending games feeling disgruntled because they lost their rax because they couldn't defend 4v5.

As for self-entitled witless dicks like yourself, reading your rage makes me twice as satisfied with the feature.

I see it as incredibly relevant, TA with DD, built for ganking with ult, jumping out of the fog on 2 unsuspecting players. How about if I add creeps in my favour (obviously, or I wouldn't be jumping out) and with tiny in lane full hp/mana. I mean, assuming my lane isn't empty? I mean do you assume that? That I am ganking a lane that has no team mate of mine?

Point is, I have the jump, on 2 players, with DD and am ready to go - it could be any team mate in lane and its a guaranteed kill, and even without a team mate in lane its pretty much secured (save for invoker ghost walk but it would turn out he was full Q at the time).

As bad as myself? I notice that the largest lack of respect for the fellow gamer comes from those advocating pausing. How amusing. I don't remember ever commenting on your skill levels? Even if I was unskilled what would it matter? Why would this change the weight of my argument? Would you be more inclined to agree with me were I a paid professional gamer with a 100% winrate?

I am intrigued by your belief that public match making is fair. I would be happy to have a game with/against you to see how good you really are, to see how good any of you really are, at any game to be frank.

[Ichy]

I don't disagree, needing a pause in game is incredibly rude and I rarely put up with it. My pizza comment was literally a reference to two days ago when the enemy team chain paused because, I kid you not, 40 minutes into the game the pizza guy arrived at this guy's house and he had to answer the door. How about not ordering a pizza and queuing for a match at the same time? I immediately unpaused all 5 times and kept playing, I have no respect for people who don't respect my time, and I don't feel bad about that.

I make food and do other things while playing all the time. Sometimes I go AFK and give control to my friend so he can have my hero leech EXP until I'm done. I never pause, I don't think I'm more important than the other 9 people in the game, that notion is simply absurd. Pauses due to DCs in close games are nice, but that is pretty rare.

Dunno about you, but most people make orders for pizza during "dinner" time.. usually between 5 and 8. During this time it can take 45 to an Hour and a Half (depending where you live) The average dota game is over in 45 minutes... if he ordered once the que popped and was in game... then he figured he had time for that 1 game... not his fault pizza dude was fast.

[Finear]

I notice that the largest lack of respect for the fellow gamer comes from those advocating pausing. How amusing.

this doesnt even make sense

abusing pause for "brb pizza" sucks
but i would rather wait 2-5min more (e.g. legit DC) than waste 30min of the game we were playing

Yeah... you should. Why should you force other people to wait for you?

because if they force me to wait for one of them im FINE with that

[Sackman]

It isn't, and I haven't said that it is.



Did she even respond to the post I made, in any way?



Match ID?



If you want to have fun while playing games, and you do not enjoy pauses or fairness (I'm not saying unpausing equals unfair either, it is really far from black and white), there are games out there that better suit your needs. But why should you have to consider what other people playing the game and the creators of said game think, right? You just want to play game! I get it.



I don't think this happens ever. Not only are close games not that common, I sincerely doubt that everyone would be having fun in one single game too.



People have lives? On the internet? Playing video games? I am sure they have, but I still do not see how what appears to be majority opinion (majority of vocal opinion of the dev.dota2.com-forum, anyway) would be a "misconception" in any way, shape, or form. Could you elaborate on that a bit perhaps?



1v1 sf mid no items or you lose argument!!!

Nah, we can either queue in this apparently highly rated MMR system or make a private lobby with some friends.

I don't publicly share my game info on my personal steam account because I like it personal. For any games we in the future if ever play against or together I would be on a spoof account.

Extrapolating I don't enjoy fairness is silly, but as you just said yourself, public games are rarely fair, so why should we pause like it's going to make a difference? Certainly if everyone agrees to pause in a good fair game sure, but elsewise I (and I know my friends all agree) just want to play. In fact the only time when queuing with friends do we allow pausing is captains mode games, simply because non captains mode games - and indeed any combination of 2 friends 3 friends either side in any mode incl captains and outside of captains makes the game notoriously unfair. We pause in captains because lets face it - if you're doing captains, you are attempting a competitive scenario style game.

I would love to elaborate but It is just my own experience of players within games that people find it rude to unpause. Many players consider it "manners" to accept a pause, and like to state this in games where I unpause.

---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 07:59 PM ----------

this doesnt even make sense

abusing pause for "brb pizza" sucks
but i would rather wait 2-5min more (e.g. legit DC) than waste 30min of the game we were playing


because if they force me to wait for one of them im FINE with that

Which is why you are fine with pausing, clearly, but let's say you are not happy with people waiting ? That other people are not happy with waiting?

You are happy to force them just because you would be happy if they forced you - even if they would never force you. (As I never would).

---------- Post added 2013-02-12 at 08:01 PM ----------

Dunno about you, but most people make orders for pizza during "dinner" time.. usually between 5 and 8. During this time it can take 45 to an Hour and a Half (depending where you live) The average dota game is over in 45 minutes... if he ordered once the que popped and was in game... then he figured he had time for that 1 game... not his fault pizza dude was fast.

Neither is it Lysah's, why should she wait for his pizza? lol

My friend had this happen himself actually, he ordered a chinese for a specific time, and they ignored the time he set and brought the meal anyway.

He answered the door (without pausing) and enjoyed a lukewarm chinese later on as he commited to the game and continued because he was thinking of everyone else rather than himself. :\

[Finear]

public games are rarely fair, so why should we pause like it's going to make a difference?

game is not fair
lets make it even worse

>fuck logic

and I know my friends all agree

and all my friends disagree

best argument ever

[Hermanni]

I see it as incredibly relevant, TA with DD, built for ganking with ult, jumping out of the fog on 2 unsuspecting players. How about if I add creeps in my favour (obviously, or I wouldn't be jumping out) and with tiny in lane full hp/mana. I mean, assuming my lane isn't empty? I mean do you assume that? That I am ganking a lane that has no team mate of mine?

Point is, I have the jump, on 2 players, with DD and am ready to go - it could be any team mate in lane and its a guaranteed kill, and even without a team mate in lane its pretty much secured (save for invoker ghost walk but it would turn out he was full Q at the time).

As bad as myself? I notice that the largest lack of respect for the fellow gamer comes from those advocating pausing. How amusing. I don't remember ever commenting on your skill levels? Even if I was unskilled what would it matter? Why would this change the weight of my argument? Would you be more inclined to agree with me were I a paid professional gamer with a 100% winrate?

I am intrigued by your belief that public match making is fair. I would be happy to have a game with/against you to see how good you really are, to see how good any of you really are, at any game to be frank.

I have a lot of respect for most people, and I try my best to be respectful to everyone that hasn't given me a reason to disrespect them no matter how much I disagree with them. You gave me plenty of reasons to not respect you before, and you crying about having to be polite towards other players only reinforces what I thought of you. Quite frankly it was you who tried to use skill as an argument or justification of an argument, and even if I cared about how good you think you are I have little interest in playing with someone like yourself and I'm simply content on assuming you're as bad as a player as a poster.

But please, just go play another game if you're not content with having lesser mortals waste your time. Or just unpause every pause instantly in every game, which should minimize your wait time to a maximum of few minutes in the case of a disconnect, or half a minute without a DC. Then see how popular you will be among other players and maybe you will understand why the feature isn't going to be removed no matter how hard you keep crying. But do keep crying.

I'm sorry I can't be as patient as Longview about responding, but I don't really have the energy to waste my time with you, if you catch my drift.

[Longview]

I notice that the largest lack of respect for the fellow gamer comes from those advocating pausing. How amusing.

Did we collectively represent anyone who shares our view on the matter of pausing in public match making and disrespect "the fellow gamer"? Did I disrespect you personally? Do you have anything to back this atrocious claim up?

I would be happy to have a game with/against you to see how good you really are, to see how good any of you really are, at any game to be frank.

Why would this change the weight of my argument? Would you be more inclined to agree with me were I a paid professional gamer with a 100% winrate?

[Sarevokcz]

I see it as incredibly relevant, TA with DD, built for ganking with ult, jumping out of the fog on 2 unsuspecting players. How about if I add creeps in my favour (obviously, or I wouldn't be jumping out) and with tiny in lane full hp/mana. I mean, assuming my lane isn't empty? I mean do you assume that? That I am ganking a lane that has no team mate of mine?

Point is, I have the jump, on 2 players, with DD and am ready to go - it could be any team mate in lane and its a guaranteed kill, and even without a team mate in lane its pretty much secured (save for invoker ghost walk but it would turn out he was full Q at the time).

then you should be able to kill them anyway. what kind of magical tactic they come up with that they got away?

As bad as myself? I notice that the largest lack of respect for the fellow gamer comes from those advocating pausing. How amusing. I don't remember ever commenting on your skill levels? Even if I was unskilled what would it matter? Why would this change the weight of my argument? Would you be more inclined to agree with me were I a paid professional gamer with a 100% winrate?

No, why should it? PGG is dick too and people arent afraid to call him dick. So are you.

I am intrigued by your belief that public match making is fair. I would be happy to have a game with/against you to see how good you really are, to see how good any of you really are, at any game to be frank.

I can admit for myself Im medicore dota player at medicore MMR level and I dont have pauses and DCs every other game and even russians unwilling to speak other than russian are rare now, while it was nightmare few months ago when I had 50 games played. Im not afraid to admit I will never be on Manni or Lysah level. Those problems of yours with constant pauses simply dont happen at my medicore level MMR and I have never heard of it from better players either, so yeah, Im going to assume its exclusively low level MMR problem. It doesnt automatically mean you are terribad, it means whole teams averaged MMR is bad. I have played games when most players were obviously beyond my level and games where I was the weakest player on the map easily, even with my strong hero. The only obvious answer to your problem is get better to get matched with people who are less likely to be that problematic.

[Morally Grey Storm]

ooh, today sure the topic is so lively ;>