[Megathread] DotA 2

[Jester Joe]

2 supports will win what? Two supports are useless if they don't know how to play. It's extremely rare to see a good dual support combo. The last one I saw must have been like 3 or 4 months ago against that Sonneiko guy and his friend.

How often do you see supports getting cover when they are dewarding in a game where they are behind in pro games? Not often at all.

Option B is probably best of the ones you listed but you can also wait until your team has killed someone or you win a fight or when your teammates are close. You don't need to instantly go deward.

But hey, Swiftending just posted a post about supports after my rant: http://www.playdota.com/forums/showp...postcount=2576

He did start off saying assuming equal skill. Of course one good support is better than 2 bad supports, I'd argue 2 decent supports are better than 1 good support, but 2 good supports will be a lot better than 1 good support.

[Deleted]

So, you're saying you don't play support often first, which I do, and then go on to say since I'm in the trench making mistakes because I'm solo supporting?
To me that's kind of odd to say it that way, you're admitting you have a lack of experiencing playing supports, yet try to call out someone else on a lack of experience?

It's relevant because the the first thing I said was I'm annoyed of playing pubs and getting flamed for not solo supporting the whole map constantly. Yet you're comparing that to no one actually knowing how to play support. I know how to support, but what I was saying was even if I knew, even if I was a pro at the game on a smurf account, people in pubs will STILL think they know better, and I'm just tired of dealing with that. I mean come on, is it a mistake that I bought wards, placed them, and somehow people will expect more magically when there's a restock time? Or that I only have brown boots and people are telling me I should have arcane? Please, tell me where the hell the mistake is in that, because even you seem to be saying there is none, yet people STILL FLAME FOR IT, ergo, it's not FUN TO PLAY SUPPORT.
Solo support is just a thing that shouldn't exist in my opinion, at least in pubs where no one's gonna understand why you might have to run into the woods as CM to get a bit of extra gold for wards and boots.

No, I'm saying you are probably making a lot of mistakes as support and it's not because you are solo supporting but because you don't know how to play the game. Sorry if that seems harsh. Just because I don't play support often doesn't mean I don't know what a good support is or how good supports play.

The first thing you asked me was how you were supposed to ward if you get ganked along the way. If a guy asks me that in a game it's a sign of them being bad. Nothing else. An excuse.

Yes, if a guy in your team whines on you for not having wards up when you have wards up and they are out of stock in the shop then he's just a retard but that is not what I am talkign about at all. I'm talking about supports making excuses for not having wards up when they can have wards up. Just like your excuse about being ganked along the way.

Again you make the excuse that being solo support shouldn't exist because you want that to be the reason you can't keep wards up when it in reality isn't.

[edmorte]

I re-installed the game.

Read posts, same ppl playing pub, uninstall... Avoided waste of precious time and patience.

[Jester Joe]

Again you make the excuse that being solo support shouldn't exist because you want that to be the reason you can't keep wards up when it in reality isn't.

I mean come on, is it a mistake that I bought wards, placed them, and somehow people will expect more magically when there's a restock time? Or that I only have brown boots and people are telling me I should have arcane?

I will ward, I think you misunderstood what I meant in the first place, I don't refuse to ward for no reason, it's when people start flaming for you not having arcane boots yet or something silly, when you simply can't afford it because the game has only been going for 15 minutes and someone has to keep the wards up.

If I'm playing with friends, or with people who actually use the wards, yes, I will ward the hell out of that map. But when it comes down to it, usually a mek is more useful on a team that just ignores wards anyway, or doesn't help place them.

I'm done here. I literally have never said I do not ward except if my team ignores them, which is a bad team, yet you keep ignoring what people say to make your own argument. My original point was if they have a roaming invis hero, and you're expecting a support to run out and ward right away, then it won't go well unless that support had enough 7 minutes in to afford both wards, which won't even make a difference because they'd have to get there to place it first.

[Deleted]

Its like you ignore everything people said because you have your own agenda.

Funny.

[Deleted]

I'm done here. I literally have never said I do not ward except if my team ignores them, which is a bad team, yet you keep ignoring what people say to make your own argument. My original point was if they have a roaming invis hero, and you're expecting a support to run out and ward right away, then it won't go well unless that support had enough 7 minutes in to afford both wards, which won't even make a difference because they'd have to get there to place it first.

Literally?

Well how are you suppose to ward when you end up getting ganked along the way?
Honestly I'm getting to the point in pubs where if there's no support I'm not gonna pick one, people expect way too much from a solo support.

This is the quote I was talking about when I said you are making excuses.

I saw your last Rubick game you lost when you were solo support. No crow at 3 min, but at 6:40. Had a ward on you for 4 minutes at the start of the game. No boots 8 min in, leeching experience from the TB while providing no lane presence, ignoring taking/guarding 4 min DD rune for a potential gank mid. You used your ward at 4 minutes and placed the most defensive ward I've seen and providing no high ground ward even though you have a Pudge. But if I was that Pudge and asked you why not crow or asked for a high ground ward I'm sure you'd say 'cause you can't afford or they were out of stock 'cause you wasted them or that you were solo supporting. But hey, at least you had your bracer and used chicken before mid got his bottle.

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Its like you ignore everything people said because you have your own agenda.

Funny.

Tell me something in your posts that I didn't answer before you spew random bullshit.

[Jester Joe]

I saw your last Rubick game you lost when you were solo support. No crow at 3 min, but at 6:40. Had a ward on you for 4 minutes at the start of the game. No boots 8 min in, leeching experience from the TB while providing no lane presence, ignoring taking/guarding 4 min DD rune for a potential gank mid. You used your ward at 4 minutes and placed the most defensive ward I've seen and providing no high ground ward even though you have a Pudge. But if I was that Pudge and asked you why not crow or asked for a high ground ward I'm sure you'd say 'cause you can't afford or they were out of stock 'cause you wasted them or that you were solo supporting. But hey, at least you had your bracer and used chicken before mid got his bottle.

Oh man, you picked out the one game I played Rubrick, who I suck at in general, so then you decided to accuse me of not knowing how to be good with Rubrick, instead of any game where I play someone I'm used to. Ok. And also you're going to blame me without point out anything else in the match.
Also, that Terrorblade was my friend who I play with. But I didn't come up with any excuses, so way to assume more.
Yet again, like said, you pick and choose and ignore the rest.

I guess if you wanted to prove I'm a terrible Rubrick you did though, which I would of told you before. I'm also a terrible carry in case you were curious. And I did do terrible that match. I'm sure you feel so excited proving that all though to try to validate...what, exactly?

And that wasn't an excuse, that was an honest question about the being ganked while warding. But apparently you don't have an actual answer except "It's an excuse"

[Deleted]

Well you still have not actually answer the original question of "How can you ward when you get insta counterwarded and ganked"


You are the only person getting angry here and it paints you in a poor light, frankly.

Taking shots at people doesn't make you cool or right, just makes you look a fool - people here are trying to have a conversation without getting insulted but there always has to be "that guy" it seems.

[Deleted]

Oh man, you picked out the one game I played Rubrick, who I suck at in general, so then you decided to accuse me of not knowing how to be good with Rubrick, instead of any game where I play someone I'm used to. Ok. And also you're going to blame me without point out anything else in the match.
Also, that Terrorblade was my friend who I play with. But I didn't come up with any excuses, so way to assume more.
Yet again, like said, you pick and choose and ignore the rest.

And that wasn't an excuse, that was an honest question. But apparently you don't have an actual answer except "It's an excuse"

How does being bad with Rubick have any relevance to the things I mentioned? Crow at 3 min is standard for any support. Warding is done by any support and your wards were horribly placed. Checking runes is standard for any support. How does being friends with TB have anything to do with what I said? But please tell me why there was no crow at 3 min.

I took that Rubick game because it was the only one where the replay is still available and the one I could find where you played solo support. Tell me what I ignored. Give me a game within the last 6 days (that's how long replays last I think) where you were solo support.

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Well you still have not actually answer the original question of "How can you ward when you get insta counterwarded and ganked"


You are the only person getting angry here and it paints you in a poor light, frankly.

Taking shots at people doesn't make you cool or right, just makes you look a fool - people here are trying to have a conversation without getting insulted but there always has to be "that guy" it seems.

Well, you say I ignore stuff and miss the point when I've already answered those questions but just because you ignore my answers or don't accept them doesn't mean I ignore your questions.

I didn't answer the original question?

Your question about getting ganked along the way? Why can they see you? Because they got wards up. You reduce the chance of getting ganked drastically if you have wards up yourself so you can see where their gankers are. You also reduce the chance to die if you know where their wards are and avoid running through them. That's also one of the things that separates good from bad supports. Good supports notice when enemy ward in vision, bad supports don't.

Option B is probably best of the ones you listed but you can also wait until your team has killed someone or you win a fight or when your teammates are close. You don't need to instantly go deward.

Aren't these answers to that question? At least I think they are.

[Deleted]

"Your question about getting ganked along the way? Why can they see you? Because they got wards up. You reduce the chance of getting ganked drastically if you have wards up yourself so you can see where their gankers are. You also reduce the chance to die if you know where their wards are and avoid running through them. That's also one of the things that separates good from bad supports. Good supports notice when enemy ward in vision, bad supports don't."

How is this possible when the example i gave you was warding after getting counterwarded by 2 supports - you don't have vision.

"Option B is probably best of the ones you listed but you can also wait until your team has killed someone or you win a fight or when your teammates are close. You don't need to instantly go deward."

If they have just dewarded you need to get vision asap, also the team not being close is once again the point i made - The team is not close so you have to go by yourself.

[Jester Joe]

How does being bad with Rubick have any relevance to the things I mentioned? Crow at 3 min is standard for any support. Warding is done by any support and your wards were horribly placed. Checking runes is standard for any support. How does being friends with TB have anything to do with what I said? But please tell me why there was no crow at 3 min.

I took that Rubick game because it was the only one where the replay is still available and the one I could find where you played solo support. Tell me what I ignored. Give me a game within the last 6 days (that's how long replays last I think) where you were solo support.

I thought it was obvious. You said "No lane presence". I was afraid to get close and end up feeding, I'm terrible with Rubrick honestly, and I'd rather not feed and definitely cause a loss when I could just play defensively and not die.
And no matter what I say, you'll just say it's an excuse anyway, but I didn't get flying right away because honestly I forgot. I haven't played much lately, and I wasn't performing well.
But I'm glad you'd rather use personal attacks to prove your point rather than actual facts. Just because I sucked that match doesn't prove anything besides I sucked that match.
Tell you want you ignored? Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, no one in that match did well on my team at all. We all sucked as a group. Pudge missed a lot of hooks I believe, has brown boots at the end of the match still, Terrorblade accomplished basically nothing at all, and wasn't even aggressive with his abilities that basically give him a huge early game presence. Bounty Hunter tried ganking/stealth scouting someone with a Gem, and I don't even remember seeing Lifestealer that much at all honestly, I believe he was mostly jungling?

[Deleted]

"Your question about getting ganked along the way? Why can they see you? Because they got wards up. You reduce the chance of getting ganked drastically if you have wards up yourself so you can see where their gankers are. You also reduce the chance to die if you know where their wards are and avoid running through them. That's also one of the things that separates good from bad supports. Good supports notice when enemy ward in vision, bad supports don't."

How is this possible when the example i gave you was warding after getting counterwarded by 2 supports - you don't have vision.

"Option B is probably best of the ones you listed but you can also wait until your team has killed someone or you win a fight or when your teammates are close. You don't need to instantly go deward."

If they have just dewarded you need to get vision asap, also the team not being close is once again the point i made - The team is not close so you have to go by yourself.

The first quote was answer to Jester Joe's question about getting ganked while going to ward.

The second quote was answer to your question I actually quoted you in that post so I don't see how you can say I didn't answer you question or how I am ignoring your points.

If the team is not close and you have no control over that part of the area of course you can't do deward at that moment. You don't need to go deward instantly if they got control of that area because then that ward won't help them that much since they are already there. And if your team isn't in that area anyways and have no intention of going there then why do you need to get a ward up there as soon as possible and why can't you wait?

You do have vision because you probably have two wards up so unless they deward both at the same time you will have vision of the map elsewhere and can use that to know where your enemies are. And getting dewarded is usually a result of their support randomly dewarding you or because you warded in vision without knowing about it because you didn't see their support put down his ward 'cause you had no vision.

[Deleted]

I thought it was obvious. You said "No lane presence". I was afraid to get close and end up feeding, I'm terrible with Rubrick honestly, and I'd rather not feed and definitely cause a loss when I could just play defensively and not die.
And no matter what I say, you'll just say it's an excuse anyway, but I didn't get flying right away because honestly I forgot. I haven't played much lately, and I wasn't performing well.
But I'm glad you'd rather use personal attacks to prove your point rather than actual facts. Just because I sucked that match doesn't prove anything besides I sucked that match.
Tell you want you ignored? Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, no one in that match did well on my team at all. We all sucked as a group. Pudge missed a lot of hooks I believe, has brown boots at the end of the match still, Terrorblade accomplished basically nothing at all, and wasn't even aggressive with his abilities that basically give him a huge early game presence. Bounty Hunter tried ganking/stealth scouting someone with a Gem, and I don't even remember seeing Lifestealer that much at all honestly, I believe he was mostly jungling?

Even if you suck, thats is irrelevant to the question at hand, which still remains

"How can you ward solo when they instantly counter ward and gank you"

We all know the answers if, you can't you need some help - but lets see where this goes.

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The first quote was answer to Jester Joe's question about getting ganked while going to ward.

The second quote was answer to your question I actually quoted you in that post so I don't see how you can say I didn't answer you question or how I am ignoring your points.

If the team is not close and you have no control over that part of the area of course you can't do deward at that moment. You don't need to go deward instantly if they got control of that area because then that ward won't help them that much since they are already there. And if your team isn't in that area anyways and have no intention of going there then why do you need to get a ward up there as soon as possible and why can't you wait?

You do have vision because you probably have two wards up so unless they deward both at the same time you will have vision of the map elsewhere and can use that to know where your enemies are. And getting dewarded is usually a result of their support randomly dewarding you or because you warded in vision without knowing about it because you didn't see their support put down his ward 'cause you had no vision.

I put down a ward and counter ward bot jungle at 10 minutes (EXAMPLE)

I go away to set up a gank top lane

Meanwhile they get counterwarded, this is what i do anyway (you know, counterward right away if i KNOW its safe)

After 1 minutes of ganky nonsense its time to deward so i buy all the wards and head bot - keeping in mind we have no vision over that part of the map.

I go to ward and notice one of thier team run past, so obviously they have seen me - so i back off for a bit and ask for some help incase i get jumped (seems reasonable to me)

Everybody is too busy farming.

After 30 seconds of it being clear i decide to counterward and ward, while doing so i see their team approaching me (this happens all the time)

I decide to run like shit and not feed as im solo vs 2 / 3 of them.

The kill my wards thus we have no map control, vision or wards left in the shop.


This literally happens almost every game and could be solved by my team just showing their faces close by, but they do not so it makes the job impossible / very difficult to do without feeding.

[Deleted]

I thought it was obvious. You said "No lane presence". I was afraid to get close and end up feeding, I'm terrible with Rubrick honestly, and I'd rather not feed and definitely cause a loss when I could just play defensively and not die.
And no matter what I say, you'll just say it's an excuse anyway, but I didn't get flying right away because honestly I forgot. I haven't played much lately, and I wasn't performing well.
But I'm glad you'd rather use personal attacks to prove your point rather than actual facts. Just because I sucked that match doesn't prove anything besides I sucked that match.
Tell you want you ignored? Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, no one in that match did well on my team at all. We all sucked as a group. Pudge missed a lot of hooks I believe, has brown boots at the end of the match still, Terrorblade accomplished basically nothing at all, and wasn't even aggressive with his abilities that basically give him a huge early game presence. Bounty Hunter tried ganking/stealth scouting someone with a Gem, and I don't even remember seeing Lifestealer that much at all honestly, I believe he was mostly jungling?

I said no lane presence because they had an Undying. Not because you didn't know how to play Rubick. You just don't fight an Undying. If you forgot to buy crow for 4 minutes then it's still bad support play. Why did you place a ward that didn't cover anything?

What facts do you want me to use to prove that people in pubs don't know how to play supports and they make excuses or think they do know how to play support? I recall you saying that you thought you knew how to play support or that you were decent at least. I was saying that what you have been saying in this thread is exactly the things people in my games are saying and you are an example of such a support that I complained about in my very first post.

You also said supporting was not hard yet you make very fundamental mistakes that a guy who knows how to play support wouldn't make even if he had a bad game. I know the rest of your team also played bad but that isn't relevant at all to what we were dicussing. How does a Pudge missing hooks have anything to do with what is discussed?

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Example

First off, are you Radiant or Dire? That's is quite an important fact to know. Secondly, why are you in such a rush deward a ward in bot jungle if no one in your team is ever there or doesn't want to go there? They kill your ward? Do you mean that you warded where you just dewarded? That's quite not... good. Or did you ward in vision?

If it literally happens every game can't you just link me some replays or something? Gives a much clearer picture and allows me to see things you might not have seen.

[Sorcereria]

Do people forget that if enemy team is so annoying with dewarding you, you can still ward during smoke which is actually much better than dewarding them couse they have no clue you have the vision and you can play a bait game?

Granted, on low mmr people suck at baiting or setting anything up... but If I found an annoying support opponent, you can always find yourself a way, juke placing a ward so they loose a sentry.
Also, why the fuck people ward always same spots instead of warding crossing when opponent is dewarding you.

I find it more annoying when you place offensive wards after you got T1-T2 and your team does not care going 2-3man on that solo carry farming jungle for 10min, waste of 150g. Its better trying to push a lane 3vs5 and get rekt. Whenever I try to bottle rush I fall so much behind at this crap net and TV sigh.

BTW. People acting like a snowflakes. You make mistake or still have to learn some stuff, dont deny. Accept it and get better. You aint gonna get better if you dont listen to others input that more often than not is a GOOD ADVICE.

PS. Since my last hiting suck so badly here and I want to mid a bit with Ember, I guess its viable to delay bottle, get branches, tango/pot as starter items and than bracer -> blade of attack -> bottle -> finish phase?

[Jester Joe]

I said no lane presence because they had an Undying. Not because you didn't know how to play Rubick. You just don't fight an Undying. If you forgot to buy crow for 4 minutes then it's still bad support play. Why did you place a ward that didn't cover anything?

what ward? Do you mean the one right off the bat? Because if it was bot lane, if I remember correctly, it covered the woods and shows rune.

What facts do you want me to use to prove that people in pubs don't know how to play supports and they make excuses or think they do know how to play support? I recall you saying that you thought you knew how to play support or that you were decent at least. I was saying that what you have been saying in this thread is exactly the things people in my games are saying and you are an example of such a support that I complained about in my very first post.

Quit putting words in my mouth, I never once said "I can't afford wards" or anything like that, I asked one simple question and somehow you've blown it up to insulting how I play. In fact, your original complaint was that they don't buy wards and sentries, which I usually do, yet you're somehow implying one terribly bad match that would of been lost even if I was the greatest support ever means I'm a bad support.

You also said supporting was not hard yet you make very fundamental mistakes that a guy who knows how to play support wouldn't make even if he had a bad game. I know the rest of your team also played bad but that isn't relevant at all to what we were dicussing. How does a Pudge missing hooks have anything to do with what is discussed?

Then how is one of my worst matches relevant at all? In fact, pretty sure bashing someone to make a point is against the forum rules, just fyi.

BTW. People acting like a snowflakes. You make mistake or still have to learn some stuff, dont deny. Accept it and get better. You aint gonna get better if you dont listen to others input that more often than not is a GOOD ADVICE.

Only problem being there hasn't been any good advice, I know I'm not a great player, I said decent for a reason. I'm sure I'm better than the supports that don't do anything but play like they're a carry, hence being decent, yet somehow a debate about solo supporting has come down to looking up my match history to try to rip me apart because I had a bad match and didn't ward like a pro, despite only being decent. Want to give advice, fine. Want to act condescending like what I say doesn't matter because of one match, then you're just losing the point of this debate, and quite frankly, ran out of proof in my opinion.

Since we started talking with hypothetical situations, that's the way it should of stayed. None of this "Lol I looked up your match history, you sucked this one match, I'm right you're wrong"

[Deleted]

what ward? Do you mean the one right off the bat? Because if it was bot lane, if I remember correctly, it covered the woods and shows rune.

Quit putting words in my mouth, I never once said "I can't afford wards" or anything like that, I asked one simple question and somehow you've blown it up to insulting how I play. In fact, your original complaint was that they don't buy wards and sentries, which I usually do, yet you're somehow implying one terribly bad match that would of been lost even if I was the greatest support ever means I'm a bad support.

Then how is one of my worst matches relevant at all? In fact, pretty sure bashing someone to make a point is against the forum rules, just fyi.

The 4 min one.

What words did I put in your mouth? I just said the things you've said in this thread and the way you defend yourself is exactly the same way supports in my games generally talk whenever I call them out (granted it doesn't happen often anymore 'cause I've given up hope on supports ever playing well). This is the quote that made me attack your support play: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post26121507

From reading that post I just draw the conclusion that you think you are a good support and you are saying it's easy to play support but yet I don't think you realize that you are probably a bad support if you are in the trench. I just told you that to hopefully make you reflect on your own play instead of thinking it's some external factor that stops you from doing your job as solo support.

I asked you to link a game where you played well or thought you played well. I said that game was taken because it was the only one available not because it was the game were you played your worst.

Is calling someone out for their mistakes in a game against forum rules? Okay. I'll stop then.

[Jester Joe]

The 4 min one.

What words did I put in your mouth? I just said the things you've said in this thread and the way you defend yourself is exactly the same way supports in my games generally talk whenever I call them out (granted it doesn't happen often anymore 'cause I've given up hope on supports ever playing well). This is the quote that made me attack your support play: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post26121507

From reading that post I just draw the conclusion that you think you are a good support and you are saying it's easy to play support but yet I don't think you realize that you are probably a bad support if you are in the trench. I just told you that to hopefully make you reflect on your own play instead of thinking it's some external factor that stops you from doing your job as solo support.

I asked you to link a game where you played well or thought you played well. I said that game was taken because it was the only one available not because it was the game were you played your worst.

Is calling someone out for their mistakes in a game against forum rules? Okay. I'll stop then.

Why would you draw the conclusion that I'm a good support when I quite clearly said I'm a decent support. Not good, but not terrible either, yet I don't see how that shows anything about this situation.
For me I consider a chart of this to go like-
Terrible->Bad->Average/Decent->Good->Great->Pro.
You said people in your pubs give excuses like "I can't pay for it, I'm a solo support", yet I don't do that at all. I've never said anything stops me from solo supporting, I said I'm tired of people expecting a mek and wards 20 minutes in, and that if they want that, there should be two supports, which is how most pro's play anyway correct? And what game could I link where I thought I played well, when they're all from like, 2-5 months ago?

What I'm saying is, and I think you're missing this, you're attacking how I play just because I said I think people sometimes expect too much from solo supports, like mek, boots, and constant wards really quick, yet you're blowing it up into "l2ward" and what not, that has nothing to do with this. I agree supports should ward, and I do ward like a decent support would, not pro wards like a pro would, but wards so you can see someone coming to gank, or in the woods if pudge is on the other team. And yes, I'll slip up sometimes, because I'm a DECENT support, not a great one. I'm failing to see where I'm trying to defend myself, except saying that you took a bad example, I admit I make mistakes, but usually I will ward as much as I can.

Keep in mind, nowhere have I insulted the way you play, yet you did just to try to prove your point of you're stuck with bad supports, when how I did in that one match was completely irrelevant.

Also I realized you might of misunderstood something, I never avoid warding on the thought of getting ganked, I'll stay safe and ward somewhere I can that's useful most the time, but it was just an example I meant, what if you know you're going to get ganked going down the river, and end up having to wait, then cannot put the ward down right away? I didn't say supporting is easy, I just said it's not hard either. Everythings hard to be a pro at, not everything is hard to pick up though.

And like I said before, if you wanted to give advice, constructive feedback is usually the best way to go. No one will ever tell you just insulting someone is the way to make them better. Also unsure of what area is really defined as the trench, but I'm low just because I only have 300 hours of gameplay, not because I'm bad. Only get into higher levels with time, not skill.

Let's restart on this, as so I can explain better what I meant by that post that made you attack my support skills.
In your bracket, if you saw a support with barely any items except perhaps dust, sentries, and they have wards up constantly in decent locations, what would the reaction be?
Now, come down to my bracket, same thing is happening, what would the reaction be? Just in case it's been a while, to let you know I was insulted while playing CM for "wasting mana", in case you forgot how bad it can be.

[Deleted]

does anyone know how long time it takes before the system matches you against people of equal skill? i just started playing dota, coming from a background in heroes of newerth and it's not really that much fun when the others don't put up a fight :/

the games i've played yet so far i've gone 28/0/10, 30/6/8 and 32/4/4, doesn't feel like am meeting the people i should be

[Clrg]

Wasnt this thread supposed to be free of elitism?