[Megathread] DotA 2

[Maruka]

jesus excaliburs tinker for fanatic against dk is pretty wild right now.

[Deleted]

Excalibur has always been a strong player. Anyone who has played with or against him in pubs knows he has big potential. His Meepo rivals N0tail's the times I've played with him. When Fnatic announced that he'd be replacing Era I was excited to see how he'd do in competitive.

[EqualWin]

jesus excaliburs tinker for fanatic against dk is pretty wild right now.

he's on fire lmao


I missed navi's matchs, I see they lost 2 of 3 games lol

[Maruka]

The best part was after the game when they showed DKs room and everyone had their head down. That was such a great shot.

[EqualWin]

I bet few random items on navi.. and gg wtf is this navi picks. they let the mchen and tinker again. axe lol xD

[Maruka]

and probably a good bet from the first 15 mins, excal tink getting dunked so hard

[EqualWin]

dendi is so awesome at ganking.. and xboct's arrows


I'm surprised about the tinker.. he recovered pretty well after getting rekt at bot

[PizzaSHARK]

Time for another extended break from DotA, I think. I really hate the way stuns and control are handled, relative to countermeasures for them.

I really think that BKB needs to be severely nerfed while also being made far cheaper, or maybe just majorly nerfed and turned into an inherent ability for all heroes. Like a skill you can activate for 2 seconds of magic immunity with a 60 second cooldown, maybe. Or a 2500 gold BKB that lasts 3 seconds with a 30-40 second cooldown, or something like that (current BKB has an uptime of 12.5%-8.0% depending on how many times it's been used, so the cheaper version would need to fall somewhere within that range to remain even in relative power-to-cost ratio.)

I just feel like stacking and spamming stuns is simply way too strong in DotA, given how high damage output is relative to hero health (which is a good thing, and something I don't want to see changed), and I feel like it just dramatically lowers the amount of skill involved in the game. If you look at games at pretty much any level of play, the team that wins will typically have more hard stuns than the other team.

I don't want to see something stupid like League of Legends' stupid passive "Tenacity" shit, I want using magic immunity to require thought and planning, but 4000 gold is just too goddamned expensive for how early you need that window of being able to actually play the fucking game. You end up in this situation where you either get BKB early, and therefore don't have the stats/items to actually do anything during it, or you buy those stats and items and can't use them because you're too busy being outskilled by stun spam.

Maybe just make BKB a three-tiered item? Like, belt (450) + blades of attack (450) + recipe (1375) = BKB 1 (2275 gold), like 3 sec duration with 40 sec cd (7.5% uptime.) Buy recipe again and it's upgraded to BKB 2, 5 sec duration with 55 sec cd (about 9% uptime), total of 3650 gold. Buy recipe one last time for 8 sec with 65 sec cd (about 12.3% uptime, about the same as the current 10/80 BKB), total of 5025 gold.

Or something. It's just too easy to brute force your way through fights in the first 30 minutes of the game by virtue of spamming stuns, even at a high level of play. I feel like it can be done better.

[Charge me Doctor]

I understand your frustration, but i don't think that it's good idea to make something similar to LoL summoner spell "cleanse".

I don't see a problem with stacking stuns, you basically, know that you will need BKB in the game as soon as you see picks and enemy lines, farming for it is not that hard. And seriously, i can't imagine "spamming" stuns for win, last time i've seen something like sven+lina, or SK+Lesh. And building BKB gives you significant power spike against teams with huge amount of CC.
I just want to say that "stacking" stuns is overrated, it's more important to have good synergy between heroes, not between 1/4 of their skills.
Also, isn't Manta is used for juking stuns? And there is a lot of skills that allow you to juke/ignore/survive stuns

[Deleted]

Eh, you can get a bkb pretty easily b4 20 minutes if you farm moderately well, I don't think its that big of a problem.

[PizzaSHARK]

Eh, you can get a bkb pretty easily b4 20 minutes if you farm moderately well, I don't think its that big of a problem.

And you can easily have all outer towers down and be threatening high ground by 20 minutes if you stacked stuns and played intelligently. And what's that Luna with BKB, HotD, and boots going to do? Pop her 10 second BKB for a few seconds of Eclipse?

BKB is a waste of fucking gold at almost every stage of the game, yet you HAVE TO make one if you're a core hero, because otherwise you're going to be drowned in slows, stuns, and just plain nukes. It's boring, and it discourages thought and decision-making. There is no "do I need a BKB this game?" at the pro level, it's "okay I need to farm my BKB now."

Imagine how much more interesting games would be to watch, let alone play, if there wasn't that stupid 10-15 minute lull in the action where the cores are off afk farming their BKBs so that they can actually play the fucking game again.

How many times do you watch a pro game and even without commentary you can sit there and go "okay Luna's had a good lane, lots of farm, now she's going to go use that farm to quickly farm up a BKB so she can begin teamfighting (aka, playing the goddamned game.)"

It's because stuns and even some slows are hideously overpowered in DotA. That's not really a major problem - it creates a high risk/high reward playstyle that's fun to watch and fun to play, and is certainly better than LoL's tepid pacing - but the issue is that there's basically a gold wall where a large percentage of heroes are essentially made invalid until they spend 10-15 minutes farming 4000 gold to be allowed to play the game again.

If BKB wasn't so ridiculously core on every goddamn hero that needs to either not get instantly blown up in fights or kited in circles in fights, you'd see a lot more interesting itemization, you'd see more options, you'd be able to see more frequent aggressive plays, or different ways of playing defensively.

Having better timing and positioning works fine for pubs and even in-house games, but the game is balanced around the pro level, and except for the lower tier teams, those teams don't have a lot of room to improve on their positioning and timing. That's why they MUST rush-farm a BKB in pretty much every single game unless the enemy team is trolling and somehow doesn't draft more than a couple of stuns or slows.

[Deleted]

And you can easily have all outer towers down and be threatening high ground by 20 minutes if you stacked stuns and played intelligently. And what's that Luna with BKB, HotD, and boots going to do? Pop her 10 second BKB for a few seconds of Eclipse?

BKB is a waste of fucking gold at almost every stage of the game, yet you HAVE TO make one if you're a core hero, because otherwise you're going to be drowned in slows, stuns, and just plain nukes. It's boring, and it discourages thought and decision-making. There is no "do I need a BKB this game?" at the pro level, it's "okay I need to farm my BKB now."

Imagine how much more interesting games would be to watch, let alone play, if there wasn't that stupid 10-15 minute lull in the action where the cores are off afk farming their BKBs so that they can actually play the fucking game again.

How many times do you watch a pro game and even without commentary you can sit there and go "okay Luna's had a good lane, lots of farm, now she's going to go use that farm to quickly farm up a BKB so she can begin teamfighting (aka, playing the goddamned game.)"

It's because stuns and even some slows are hideously overpowered in DotA. That's not really a major problem - it creates a high risk/high reward playstyle that's fun to watch and fun to play, and is certainly better than LoL's tepid pacing - but the issue is that there's basically a gold wall where a large percentage of heroes are essentially made invalid until they spend 10-15 minutes farming 4000 gold to be allowed to play the game again.

If BKB wasn't so ridiculously core on every goddamn hero that needs to either not get instantly blown up in fights or kited in circles in fights, you'd see a lot more interesting itemization, you'd see more options, you'd be able to see more frequent aggressive plays, or different ways of playing defensively.

Having better timing and positioning works fine for pubs and even in-house games, but the game is balanced around the pro level, and except for the lower tier teams, those teams don't have a lot of room to improve on their positioning and timing. That's why they MUST rush-farm a BKB in pretty much every single game unless the enemy team is trolling and somehow doesn't draft more than a couple of stuns or slows.

bkb is a waste of gold, yet you have to get it.

That doesn't really make much sense.


If every hero was useful at 10 minutes without any farm nobody would ever pick any supports, supports need to good stuns so they can fight early but late game they get stomped in 2 seconds flat.

[veiledy0]

I liked that excalibur kid. 'till they showed his face. Kill it before it lays eggs rofl.

[Charge me Doctor]

I would say that before building BKB you have to ask yourself a questions, "am i able to avoid taking AoE damage and CC and be at least 80% effective?", "am i potentially a target for enemy hard single target CC?", "does BKB helps me to fulfill my role better?". It isn't core item in any way, there is no reason to build it as core item, you build it if you feel that a lot of teamfight power is concentrated in you, and dying early due to nukes or CC will make you lose the fight.

And i don't know where you get these "forced to rush BKB" thoughts, i haven't seen anyone being forced to rush a BKB at least in TI4, and if it would be as important as you may it sound to be, we would see everyone getting a BKB in mid game instead of late game, where you need to be sure that you won't die in a second because of enemy having items AND levels, because otherwise, this mistake will leave you with 120 seconds of respawn.

Seriously, the worst thing that can happen to dota is "cheap", "free", or "quick" BKB-like item. In pro-scene (well, i don't really know, it's just my assumption) it's very hard to "make plays", and each enemy having a free early "get out of jail" card will discourage players to "make plays" and games will become really boring farm festivals.

And i'm quite sure that pro players do not share your opinion on BKB.

And players don't need to have BKB in every fight, because their enemies can dispose exact [b]this[/s] amount of CC, if someone (like Abaddon for example) tanks it, or CCs enemies first (like Magnus, for example) or helps you to be safe from enemy CCing you (Mirana, Treant(stealth), Bane(sick Nightmare jukes), Omniknight(pocket BKB)) you can "skip" BKB in this fight, in next fight, if you use you advantage, you will have upper hand over enemy, and again, can "skip" BKB, because now you are higher level and have better items and map control than enemy.

[PizzaSHARK]

bkb is a waste of gold, yet you have to get it.

That doesn't really make much sense.

Sure it does. Do you really think people would buy a 4000 gold club+hammer if they didn't have to? You must have it, but it's not something you'd buy without being required to. Hence, it's a necessary waste of gold and an inventory slot.

If every hero was useful at 10 minutes without any farm nobody would ever pick any supports, supports need to good stuns so they can fight early but late game they get stomped in 2 seconds flat.

So get rid of the hard lines between "support" and "carry" entirely. Make every hero potentially viable for every position.

[EqualWin]

go play lol then. srsly u're just complaning too much and dota has been like that since ages.. it's fine as it is.

[Charge me Doctor]

I have to agree on this, things Pizza demands already implemented in LoL, homogenization won't help these games

[Deleted]

Sure it does. Do you really think people would buy a 4000 gold club+hammer if they didn't have to? You must have it, but it's not something you'd buy without being required to. Hence, it's a necessary waste of gold and an inventory slot.



So get rid of the hard lines between "support" and "carry" entirely. Make every hero potentially viable for every position.

You have to buy boots are they a waste of money ? What about TPs scrolls ?

If you NEED it how can it be a waste of money ?


From the sounds of it you look into Heroes of the storm.

[LiiLoSNK]

From the sounds of it you look into Heroes of the storm.

How decent is blizz dota? I'm beta-less.

[Deleted]

How decent is blizz dota? I'm beta-less.

Its okay, but its nothing like dota at all and the two shouldn't be compared.

Its kinda like Bloodline champions if I had to compare it to something, personally I think the game feels very slow, not played it loads but for people that don't want to spend 45 minutes in one game it could be ideal.