[Megathread] DotA 2

[Deleted]

Applies to chickenmage and many other popular picks, too.

I wouldn't worry about DP because DP is a garbage tier hero.

Yeah, but their cooldowns are much shorter and they get active early.

[Charge me Doctor]

Applies to chickenmage and many other popular picks, too.

I wouldn't worry about DP because DP is a garbage tier hero.

Both skywrath and DP have silence on their disposal, also skywrath can be used to pick up an enemy not in position. Without ults these heroes are still big danger to your team.

I don't get where you've got DP being garbage tier hero thing. She has almost same kit as silencer (AoE silence is not global silence, but still), with better wave clear, with better scaling (she doesn't need AS, all she needs is mana and HP making her shopping really easy. Also, Euls scepter for free ult damage ticks) and better movement speed. Thanks to itemization she can take a beating, thanks to ult she doesn't even need to focus fire someone, she can kite anyone around, as soon as you turn away from her, you get bats eating your back, as soon you turn to her, you get your face eaten by ghosts.
And i forgot that she puts much more pressure on towers than Silencer. I don't understand how you hate last word so much, but it seems that swarm spam (1100 range) + silence (~900 range + 400 radius) from DP being garbage tier. And i want to repeat it again, she gets free 20% MS boost and can damage you while spinning in tornado while you can't do jack shit about it, it's just ridiculous.

Just finished a game №826099233 against silencer. Wasn't laning against him tho, but watching replay it doesn't seem that our laners had any problems with last word or his ult.
I can recall only one moment when his ult was really scary for me, when i was about to join teamfight after enemy Void ulted couple of my allies, Silencer used his ult and i was like "run away!", had to turn my back because by the time silence wears off, everyone is dead and i'm free frag. Pure coincidence, for the whole game i've been in this situation only once

[Deleted]

Applies to chickenmage and many other popular picks, too.

I wouldn't worry about DP because DP is a garbage tier hero.

Skywrath mage isn't a 1 position hero in the meta though.

Rofl@ DP being a garbage tier hero. The entire meta of the international has been taking early leads-->towers-->push for racks and dp/razor/rhasta were main picks.

[Deleted]

Skywrath mage isn't a 1 position hero in the meta though.

Rofl@ DP being a garbage tier hero. The entire meta of the international has been taking early leads-->towers-->push for racks and dp/razor/rhasta were main picks.

DP is an odd hero, in the sense that she is extremely strong in the current pro meta, but generally complete ass in pubs since few pubs play around her ult properly, and said ult falls off completely at 40-50 minutes.

She's like a reverse Riki, really.

[Deleted]

DP is an odd hero, in the sense that she is extremely strong in the current pro meta, but generally complete ass in pubs since few pubs play around her ult properly, and said ult falls off completely at 40-50 minutes.

She's like a reverse Riki, really.

Depends on what MMR you're playing at really, but last time I checked my average match was 32-35 minutes I think. Pub games (at low skill specially) tend to instant lock 2-3 carries and a mid hero so no idea why would you even pick a DP there(since its a hero that either needs safelane farm or mid).

[minteK917]

Depends on what MMR you're playing at really, but last time I checked my average match was 32-35 minutes I think. Pub games (at low skill specially) tend to instant lock 2-3 carries and a mid hero so no idea why would you even pick a DP there(since its a hero that either needs safelane farm or mid).

Yeah pretty sure my average win time with DP and lycan are -30 minute, even in unranked. This pizza guy been hillarous, whining about balance through this thread about every 2-3 page. His last one being Axe base hp regen. Now DP garbage tier, id say just take his stuff in stride.

[Jester Joe]

Yeah pretty sure my average win time with DP and lycan are -30 minute, even in unranked. This pizza guy been hillarous, whining about balance through this thread about every 2-3 page. His last one being Axe base hp regen. Now DP garbage tier, id say just take his stuff in stride.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, he might exaggerate with what he says, but it's not like he's pulling it out of thin air. Axe's base HP regen is pretty ridiculous compared to everyone else's. *shrug*

[Deleted]

Honestly, it feels like even in the pro scene, DP is an "oh they banned the other good heroes" pick more so than a "Dire Lycan instapick lelelelele" type of hero. Sure, her ult is pretty ridiculous, but quite frankly she's near-worthless when it's down, since her only other really relevant ability is her W which you never max early in the first place. IMHO heroes like Pugna are much more obnoxious pushers than she is - fuck that little green guy and his pimp cane.

[minteK917]

I'm not sure what you're getting at, he might exaggerate with what he says, but it's not like he's pulling it out of thin air. Axe's base HP regen is pretty ridiculous compared to everyone else's. *shrug*

Yep its almost as if he has to take damage to do anything! Like i said next hes gona be questioning Centaur Str scaling, its ridiculous compared to everyone else, i wonder why.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly, it feels like even in the pro scene, DP is an "oh they banned the other good heroes" pick more so than a "Dire Lycan instapick lelelelele" type of hero. Sure, her ult is pretty ridiculous, but quite frankly she's near-worthless when it's down, since her only other really relevant ability is her W which you never max early in the first place. IMHO heroes like Pugna are much more obnoxious pushers than she is - fuck that little green guy and his pimp cane.

No shes a pusher that can farm mid lane for early push. You dont have that many of those, Her and exort Invoker would be the primary ones for this role. Pugna falls off even ealier then DP and needs a much safer laning environment, they dont fit close to the same part. Infact if anything they are better in combination since they dont compete for the same spot.

I like how everyone expect to ignore DP ult and punish right after, which is not even possible most of the time when a good DP mid is online unless you have very specific line up on the other team. Unless your early team also have great push, you wont be able to punish the usage of a DP ult early. If they did enough damage to your map control early, you are on the back foot. Say for exemple you have SS as your push facing a DP, theoraticaly you could push with wards to punish, but its unlikely to be possible when DP start pushing, SS wont be anywhere near his wards at that time, unless the DP team is throwing free xp all over the place in his lane.

[Jester Joe]

Yep its almost as if he has to take damage to do anything! Like i said next hes gona be questioning Centaur Str scaling, its ridiculous compared to everyone else, i wonder why.

Eh, I would say str is a lot better though for someone who's suppose to take damage, all the HP regen does for Axe is allow him to stay in lane longer, and with tranquils almost never have to go back to the fountain. Not sure how much it honestly helps outside of that, I believe that was one of the reasons no one bothers with arguing about the HP regen on battle fury on PA, because it's nearly useless in a battle.

Honestly, it feels like even in the pro scene, DP is an "oh they banned the other good heroes" pick more so than a "Dire Lycan instapick lelelelele" type of hero. Sure, her ult is pretty ridiculous, but quite frankly she's near-worthless when it's down, since her only other really relevant ability is her W which you never max early in the first place. IMHO heroes like Pugna are much more obnoxious pushers than she is - fuck that little green guy and his pimp cane.

I dunno, she was banned like 16 times in the international, and only picked like 6 times.

[Deleted]

Eh, I would say str is a lot better though for someone who's suppose to take damage, all the HP regen does for Axe is allow him to stay in lane longer, and with tranquils almost never have to go back to the fountain. Not sure how much it honestly helps outside of that, I believe that was one of the reasons no one bothers with arguing about the HP regen on battle fury on PA, because it's nearly useless in a battle.



I dunno, she was banned like 16 times in the international, and only picked like 6 times.

Hmm, didn't follow the main bracket since I was on vacation with no internet, but I still think DP is a weak hero unless you draft around her - which for the record is no different from a hero like Pugna, who is also very meta right now. It's not like either of them are Rhasta who literally works no matter what else you pick.

On the note of Axe's health regen, the point is moot because the hero is completely fucking worthless. His base HP regen could be twice of what it is and he would still be worthless because his skills are worthless - he's like an Undying with more RNG in the sense that if you pick him and game goes longer than 30 minutes, you are playing 4v5. The only hero where I feel like base regen is pretty out of line is Nyx, honestly, since you can go boots first and still be completely impossible to harass out of lane.

[veiledy0]

I'm not sure what you're getting at, he might exaggerate with what he says, but it's not like he's pulling it out of thin air. Axe's base HP regen is pretty ridiculous compared to everyone else's. *shrug*

Axe's HP regen makes sense tho. He's an Orc warrior and whatnot. Nyx's HP regen is what I can't justify.

[Jester Joe]

Hmm, didn't follow the main bracket since I was on vacation with no internet, but I still think DP is a weak hero unless you draft around her - which for the record is no different from a hero like Pugna, who is also very meta right now. It's not like either of them are Rhasta who literally works no matter what else you pick.

I didn't follow it much either, but dotabuff had a page with the international stats, so I looked up how well DP did after people were saying she was a main pick.

On the note of Axe's health regen, the point is moot because the hero is completely fucking worthless. His base HP regen could be twice of what it is and he would still be worthless because his skills are worthless - he's like an Undying with more RNG in the sense that if you pick him and game goes longer than 30 minutes, you are playing 4v5. The only hero where I feel like base regen is pretty out of line is Nyx, honestly, since you can go boots first and still be completely impossible to harass out of lane.

Agree, Axe's strong part is just shutting down heroes early game. He can demolish almost anyone with an early level advantage, but if your team doesn't take advantage of that and their carries farm up, it's over for Axe almost. He becomes just a decent distraction, or a support ganker.
My point was more of it's not like it's being claimed "Riki's OP because he can go invis!!".

Axe's HP regen makes sense tho. He's an Orc warrior and whatnot. Nyx's HP regen is what I can't justify.

Excuse me, he's an Oglodi now :P

[Deleted]

Back in the days (see: before TI4) you could beat DPs by just avoiding her and out farm the enemy team when they five manned. But somehow with this meta it's so hard to do that. You lose your raxes by 15 min if you try to split-farm and avoid the 5 man. I don't know but it doesn't seem like anyone has figured out how to deal with DP in higher level games in this push-meta.

[Jester Joe]

Back in the days (see: before TI4) you could beat DPs by just avoiding her and out farm the enemy team when they five manned. But somehow with this meta it's so hard to do that. You lose your raxes by 15 min if you try to split-farm and avoid the 5 man. I don't know but it doesn't seem like anyone has figured out how to deal with DP in higher level games in this push-meta.

That would explain why her bans were so much higher than her pick rate at least.

[Deleted]

Honestly, I'm not sure what's going to be done to "nerf" the current Deathball meta. I think perhaps introducing TB and LC to Captain's Mode is sufficient to some degree, but it still feels like the base is very easy to break early with the right setup.

[Charge me Doctor]

Why something should be done about it? It looked fine for me.

[veiledy0]

Honestly, I'm not sure what's going to be done to "nerf" the current Deathball meta. I think perhaps introducing TB and LC to Captain's Mode is sufficient to some degree, but it still feels like the base is very easy to break early with the right setup.

Introducing Terrorblade will totally "nerf" it

[PizzaSHARK]

Back in the days (see: before TI4) you could beat DPs by just avoiding her and out farm the enemy team when they five manned. But somehow with this meta it's so hard to do that. You lose your raxes by 15 min if you try to split-farm and avoid the 5 man. I don't know but it doesn't seem like anyone has figured out how to deal with DP in higher level games in this push-meta.

Killing her is usually pretty effective at slowing her down. Your options are pretty much either instagib her or don't fight into her ult, depending on what's available to your team.

I never saw much of anything impressive out of DP in TI4. I remember Dendi feeding like crazy while playing DP, though. Her ulti isn't even particularly impressive until close to lvl 11 or so, either; lvl 6 ulti with one point in Witchcraft is, like, six or seven ghosts. Barely does any damage at all, and it's not like she has the HP or armor to tank any damage that early on. Her only real relevance early on is Crypt Swarm spam, and I guess her AOE silence.

By midgame, her only real major contribution is Exorcism, and it's like most any other major teamfight/push ulti - just force her to use it defensively, or engineer it so that when they use it to push, you can make a trade of some sort if you can't fight it head on. If they're pushing a tower, take a tower of your own, or go take Roshan, or something. Pubs are awful at doing this, but pros aren't, and I think that's a big part of why DP wasn't picked very much (84 picks/bans in the entirety of 6.81+6.81b with less than 50% winrate), and didn't do well when she did. She was banned a lot because if they get DP and you have no answer to her, it's gonna suck. I think that's what explains Void's high ban rate and low win rate, too.

- - - Updated - - -

Introducing Terrorblade will totally "nerf" it

LC will definitely nerf it. She loves big blobs of enemies. inc 500 dmg Q's.

[veiledy0]

LC will definitely nerf it. She loves big blobs of enemies. inc 500 dmg Q's.

Not really. Towers are taken by Rhasta's wards and DP's ghosts, and those don't count towards the damage multiplier. If Deathball was counterable by stuff such as her Q, Earthshaker would already be doing it.

Cheaper buybacks or reducing the cooldown on Glyph would nerf it to a certain extent.