Formula 1 2012

[Coffer]

But they wouldnt have got back to the garage + still had the fuel needed for the test, so they stopped out on track and took a gamble with the rules. As for Massa, i'd be amazed if he doesnt get dropped before the end of the season, 5 races in and hes still cruising around at the back doing nothing useful, while his team mate is joint leading the championship.

Massa had better pace than Alonso in China and Bahrain, but Spain may have just cost him the seat.

[jasonchris]

I clicked on this thread thinking I read "NASCAR" not "Formula 1", dang it!

Anyways, go Junior!

[Thrax]

Qualifying predictions:-
Pole: Hamilton
2nd: Alonso or Massa
3rd: Grosjean

[Coffer]

Massa looking extremely strong this weekend, in stark contrast to Vettel. Fastest time on softs today, second fastest on supersofts. Faster and more consistent than Alonso in both FP2 and FP3, both times being near the top with both compounds. Could we see a miracle?

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Sergio Perez, what a plonker. Could have parked his car on that escape road and the session wouldn't have been suspended.

Schumacher will be kicking himself for causing that crash in Spain a couple of weeks ago. Getting the pole position and then being put to 5th is going to hurt.

[Ligier]

Sergio Perez, what a plonker. Could have parked his car on that escape road and the session wouldn't have been suspended.

Schumacher will be kicking himself for causing that crash in Spain a couple of weeks ago. Getting the pole position and then being put to 5th is going to hurt.

Sergio Perez had a steering failure caused by Pastor Maldonado driving across him during FP3.

Michael Schumacher is 6th, because 1st plus a 5 place penalty is not 5th. Fastest in Quali for the first time in his entire 43 race comeback doesn't make him the world champion, hopefully there won't be too much Schumacher arse-kissing based on this 1 in 43 qualifying result. He won't win tomorrow.

[Coffer]

Sergio Perez had a steering failure caused by Pastor Maldonado driving across him during FP3.

Michael Schumacher is 6th, because 1st plus a 5 place penalty is not 5th. Fastest in Quali for the first time in his entire 43 race comeback doesn't make him the world champion, hopefully there won't be too much Schumacher arse-kissing based on this 1 in 43 qualifying result. He won't win tomorrow.

He wasn't going to anyway, considering the Merc is shit in race trim. Though I'd love to see him win specifically to see people like you get the short end of the stick.

[Ligier]

He wasn't going to anyway, considering the Merc is shit in race trim. Though I'd love to see him win specifically to see people like you get the short end of the stick.

Yeah well, my money is on Kimi Raikkonen, the man who's had two podiums in his first season of his comeback vs Schumacher whos had none in over 2 seasons. The Merc isn't overly bad, it's just that Schumacher is not as good as ppl always claim, never has been, never will.

[Coffer]

Yeah well, my money is on Kimi Raikkonen, the man who's had two podiums in his first season of his comeback vs Schumacher whos had none in over 2 seasons.

You mean the guy who couldn't find the pace to beat the Ferraris today and who has been way off the pace for the entire weekend? Okay. Enjoy losing the money. And this is coming from a Kimi fan.

The Merc isn't overly bad, it's just that Schumacher is not as good as ppl always claim, never has been, never will.

Guess that explains why Schuey has outpaced Rosberg in all but one race despite not finishing higher than tenth and despite the team, Grosjean and Schuey's own brain doing everything in their power to stop him from finishing a race. Okay.

[Ligier]

You mean the guy who couldn't find the pace to beat the Ferraris today and who has been way off the pace for the entire weekend? Okay. Enjoy losing the money. And this is coming from a Kimi fan.



Guess that explains why Schuey has outpaced Rosberg in all but one race despite not finishing higher than tenth and despite the team, Grosjean and Schuey's own brain doing everything in their power to stop him from finishing a race. Okay.

The prizes are handed out on Sunday, after the race, not Saturday, after qualifying. Being fast over one lap in qualifying doesn't score you 25 points for 78 laps in the race. As for my Raikkonen bet, as Murray Walker used to say, anything can happen in Formula One, and it usually does. Seeing as 5 diff teams have won the first 5 races, it's not totally unlikely that Raikkonen could win, after all, Olivier Panis won from 14th place on the day that Schumacher, who had pole, crashed on lap 1 While its more likely to be a race where everyone is running one behind the other, at the end of the day, you just never actually know until it happens.

Je Tu Len Jeden Kimi Raikkonen.

[Coffer]

The prizes are handed out on Sunday, after the race, not Saturday, after qualifying.

That's what practice sessions are for. Everyone did race simulations, even the steering-stricken Kimi. He was nowhere near Grosjean.

Being fast over one lap in qualifying doesn't score you 25 points for 78 laps in the race.

It worked for Senna and Schumacher. Over 60% of their wins were from pole. And that's not even mentioning Fangio.

Also, this is Monaco. Qualifying, if anything, matters more than the race here, even with the advent of the Pirellis. And I hope you haven't forgotten that the winner of the last 3 races was the polesitter himself.

As for my Raikkonen bet, as Murray Walker used to say, anything can happen in Formula One, and it usually does. Seeing as 5 diff teams have won the first 5 races, it's not totally unlikely that Raikkonen could win.

Never said that wasn't the case. With Macca dropping off the map Lotus now have the best car, so normally Raikkonen should've been the top contender this weekend. But as you could see, he was absolutely nowhere both while testing race pace and in qualifying itself. Though I'd blame that more on the time they lost in FP1 than on Kimi himself.

Olivier Panis won from 14th place on the day that Schumacher, who had pole, crashed on lap 1

Mind you, only 3 drivers finished that race. Coulthard was shit and Frentzen just parked it because he got bored. And I love how you're pointing out that Schuey crashed from pole in that race. A pole that he gained by outqualifying Hill by .5s in Monaco, one of the shortest tracks on the calendar, with only the third best car. But okay.

Regardless, considering Webber's horrible starts, Mercedes' lack of race pace, Hamilton's unpredictability, Raikkonen&Schumacher's sheer prowess at Monaco and how pleased Alonso and Massa seemed to be after qualifying, we should be on for a good race. Which is good, as, barring 2010 and 2011, Monaco generally produces snoozefests.

[Ligier]

It worked for Senna and Schumacher. Over 60% of their wins were from pole. And that's not even mentioning Fangio.

Different eras. Senna is the best of all time, followed by Fangio. They overtook on track, which is what we want, right, a *race*? Schumacher rarely raced, just sat behind a car until it pitted and then went faster.

Mind you, only 3 drivers finished that race. Coulthard was shit and Frentzen just parked it because he got bored. And I love how you're pointing out that Schuey crashed from pole in that race. A pole that he gained by outqualifying Hill by .5s in Monaco, one of the shortest tracks on the calendar, with only the third best car. But okay.

Well how many points did he get for the driver's championship for that pole? It's the finishes that score the points, the wins that people take from the stats to "prove" Schumacher is best (I dispute), not pole positions. Ferrari had the second best car by that stage, Benetton were falling down a little bit but were still contenders.

Hungaroring is another "Monaco" circuit which you "can't overtake on", but Jenson Button came through from 14th in 2006 on a day when 12 cars crossed the line.

Regardless, considering Webber's horrible starts, Mercedes' lack of race pace, Hamilton's unpredictability, Raikkonen&Schumacher's sheer prowess at Monaco and how pleased Alonso and Massa seemed to be after qualifying, we should be on for a good race. Which is good, as, barring 2010 and 2011, Monaco generally produces snoozefests.

I hope for a good race. I want Kimi on the podium atleast, because my bet is infact an each way (1-3). If Hamilton gets the lead off the start I think it'll be his race, if Rosberg leads into turn 1 then he's going to hold a long traffic jam which will keep things close. I also reckon Sergio Perez could score a 10th place minimum from the back of the grid - stranger things have happened. All I DON'T want is for Schumacher to win.... I was a Damon Hill fan when I first watched F1 in 1993...

[Coffer]

All I DON'T want is for Schumacher to win.... I was a Damon Hill fan when I first watched F1 in 1993...

Hah, figures. Have to respect your point of view then (not being sarcastic here). I absolutely despised Hill as a driver, especially because he never got over losing '94 (which is odd, as, in those days, I also hated Schuey), but I adored and still adore him as a person.

I must say, I'm enjoying this argument so far.

Different eras. Senna is the best of all time, followed by Fangio. They overtook on track, which is what we want, right, a *race*? Schumacher rarely raced, just sat behind a car until it pitted and then went faster.

Regardless of how "easy" he had it in '02 and '04 and the fact that he didn't deserve '03, the '92-'00 years and '06 more than make up for that. He beat Senna in an arguably worse car in his first full season.

Well how many points did he get for the driver's championship for that pole? It's the finishes that score the points, the wins that people take from the stats to "prove" Schumacher is best (I dispute), not pole positions. Ferrari had the second best car by that stage, Benetton were falling down a little bit but were still contenders.

If we were to go by that stat then not even your "Senna&Fangio>all" argument stands. And saying that Benetton had a worse car than Ferrari in '96 is like saying that Benetton had the best car in '94, which, despite the aids, was not the case.

Hungaroring is another "Monaco" circuit which you "can't overtake on", but Jenson Button came through from 14th in 2006 on a day when 12 cars crossed the line.

Honda had an extremely strong car that weekend, Barrichello and Button qualifying third and fourth respectively. Schumacher qualified 12th, had a remarkable start before being absolutely schooled by Alonso (who had an even better start), lost his front wing and was still in contention for the podium at the end. Raikkonen and championship leader Alonso crashed.

Hilariously, the podium was completed by freaking Pedro de la Rosa and the "slightly bored" Nick Heidfeld.

You know what that means? Yes, once again, that was a fluke win. Impressive, but a fluke nonetheless. And, to get it out of the way more quickly, that was also the case with Vettel's win in '08. And I'm saying that as a Vettel fan.

Denying the existance of the luck factor in F1 is a one-way ticket to hell. Massa ('08) can attest to that, as can Vettel ('10).

I hope for a good race. I want Kimi on the podium atleast, because my bet is infact an each way (1-3). If Hamilton gets the lead off the start I think it'll be his race, if Rosberg leads into turn 1 then he's going to hold a long traffic jam which will keep things close. I also reckon Sergio Perez could score a 10th place minimum from the back of the grid - stranger things have happened.

In all fairness, I want Kimi to win this one. He may only be starting from 8th, but I feel he has a strong enough shot. The only ones I want to win more out of the top 10 are Massa and Schumacher, both of whom I strongly believe will drop back in one way or another. We both know how often their minds fail them.

As for Perez, he may be monstrously good at preserving his tyres, but he won't be able to use that to his advantage here. He won't be the only one going for a one-stopper, and Sauber (rather surprisingly, as I'd tipped Kobayashi for the podium before the weekend started) don't have a strong enough car. But then neither did Schuey in Malaysia or Bahrain and he still fought back.

[Thallidomaniac]

Not really related to F1 since this incident occurred in a lower-leveled F1 division (GP3), but Conor Daly got into a horrifying crash that sent his car nearly perpendicular to the ground and into the catch fence, but was unhurt in the crash.

[Ligier]

Regardless of how "easy" he had it in '02 and '04 and the fact that he didn't deserve '03, the '92-'00 years and '06 more than make up for that. He beat Senna in an arguably worse car in his first full season.

Ayrton Senna & Gerhard Berger had failure after failure after failure, mostly with the Honda engine. This is why Schumacher beat Senna in 1992.

If we were to go by that stat then not even your "Senna&Fangio>all" argument stands. And saying that Benetton had a worse car than Ferrari in '96 is like saying that Benetton had the best car in '94, which, despite the aids, was not the case.

I'm not suggesting Benetton had the best car, I'm suggesting they cheated! That, and the fact that World Champions Williams had to deal with the San Marino Grand Prix where Senna was killed in their car.

Honda had an extremely strong car that weekend, Barrichello and Button qualifying third and fourth respectively. Schumacher qualified 12th, had a remarkable start before being absolutely schooled by Alonso (who had an even better start), lost his front wing and was still in contention for the podium at the end. Raikkonen and championship leader Alonso crashed.

Don't forget, both Schumacher and Alonso had time penalties on their qualifying times. Schumacher 1 sec, Alonso 2 sec, for transgressions in practice. The Ferrari was alot stronger than you seem to remember, although Schumacher got away with driving into almost everyone in the race. Alonso crashed because of a loose wheel after the nut fell off going into turn two.

As for Perez, he may be monstrously good at preserving his tyres, but he won't be able to use that to his advantage here. He won't be the only one going for a one-stopper, and Sauber (rather surprisingly, as I'd tipped Kobayashi for the podium before the weekend started) don't have a strong enough car. But then neither did Schuey in Malaysia or Bahrain and he still fought back.

Two 10th places is hardly "fighting back", especially when he didn't overtake anything in Malaysia, just allowed them to pit. Bahrain on the other hand, he started 1 place behind Pastor Maldonado and when Maldonado had his puncture, he was two places ahead of Schumacher, although, admittedly, Schumacher actually overtook cars without driving into them.

---------- Post added 2012-05-27 at 11:59 AM ----------

Not really related to F1 since this incident occurred in a lower-leveled F1 division (GP3), but Conor Daly got into a horrifying crash that sent his car nearly perpendicular to the ground and into the catch fence, but was unhurt in the crash.

No one's mentioning the fact that Dmitry Suranovic is running around without a rear wing the entire time Connor Daly is behind him. I'd not be surprised if Suranovic is given serious grief over that one.

[Coffer]

Ayrton Senna & Gerhard Berger had failure after failure after failure, mostly with the Honda engine. This is why Schumacher beat Senna in 1992.

Doesn't explain how he only had one more point than Berger. And what does that change? It'd be like saying Red Bull didn't have the best car in 2010 because Vettel had upwards of 6 car failures.

I'm not suggesting Benetton had the best car, I'm suggesting they cheated! That, and the fact that World Champions Williams had to deal with the San Marino Grand Prix where Senna was killed in their car.

Verstappen, JJ Lehto and Herbert were never penalized despite having the same car. FIA at its finest.

Schumacher got away with driving into almost everyone in the race

No he didn't. He took himself out like an idiot while fighting Heidfeld at the end.

The Ferrari was alot stronger than you seem to remember

As was the Honda.

Two 10th places is hardly "fighting back", especially when he didn't overtake anything in Malaysia, just allowed them to pit.

Obliterating Rosberg with the same car and catching the points despite dropping that far back (last place doesn't even begin to describe it) sounds like fighting back to me. It's no "18th to first" (Barrichello) or "17th to first" (Raikkonen) performance by any stretch of the imagination, but with a car that lacked race pace, had tyre issues and, in Malaysia's case, lacked the one advantage that set them apart from the grid (no DDRS due to the rain), it's a good performance. Hamilton, in comparison, only finished 8th with a better car, even with Perez getting a puncture and Schumacher&Senna showing signs of retardation. (Admittedly, he, much like Schuey in Malaysia, beat his teammate)

In both cases, that's all that they could've managed.

[Sackman]

Race predictions then...?

Schumacher looks hungry for a win, but I'm routing for Raikkonen, he has been exceptional since his return and has had great consistency, and thats what wins this race.

[Coffer]

Race predictions then...?

Schumacher looks hungry for a win, but I'm routing for Raikkonen, he has been exceptional since his return and has had great consistency, and thats what wins this race.

Rosberg or Hamilton for the win. I don't want either of them to do well, but overtaking at Monaco is nigh impossible and Webber will surely drop back after the start.

[Sackman]

Rosberg or Hamilton for the win. I don't want either of them to do well, but overtaking at Monaco is nigh impossible and Webber will surely drop back after the start.

Aye that wouldn't surprise me, but I have this little feeling McLarens pitstops are gonna prevent them winning, or even getting podium, they have been shocking this season.

[Coffer]

Aye that wouldn't surprise me, but I have this little feeling McLarens pitstops are gonna prevent them winning, or even getting podium, they have been shocking this season.

True that, but (mis)fortune doesn't last forever.