The Brewmaster Tanking Guide [5.4]

[Zonex]

Focus on Blackout Kick for adds. The problem that no one ever seems to realize is that, you shouldn't aoe the adds. You single target focus them down. Same goes for us, SCK should be used to grab AoE threat from new mobs if KS is on CD, otherwise, focus single target dps on w/e is highest prio. Have 1 wastewalker dead and 2 at 100% is better than having 3 wastewalkers at 66% and none dead.

Don't waste chi on BoF unless for smth drastic like your raid needing statue shields. Dont SCK, single target focus things down.

---------- Post added 2013-05-23 at 06:36 PM ----------

Also to all the guilds having an issue on Horridon hc in the final phase, knock some sense into your healers, cuz they are failing terribly, they should be able to keep up a monk with no shuffle, let alone one thats properly playing their class.

Tell them that ALL(every single one of them) the healers should be focusing on the horridon tank 100% of the time. Dire Call will not kill anyone, and if it will, it will be a one shot because they wont have enough effective health (and or they didnt pop a personal CD). There is NO raid dmg going out in that phase other than Dire Call, and you have a RLY long time inbetween each DC. So much so that, the raid wide hots, or Battle Healer from a pala, will top them off eventually. They should be focussing on the tanks taking 40% hp melee swings. Do it like this, and its a piss take of a boss.

-- This is after Jalak dies ofc, because before him, tank dmg is laughable

[Trendy-Ideology]

Focus on Blackout Kick for adds. The problem that no one ever seems to realize is that, you shouldn't aoe the adds. You single target focus them down. Same goes for us, SCK should be used to grab AoE threat from new mobs if KS is on CD, otherwise, focus single target dps on w/e is highest prio. Have 1 wastewalker dead and 2 at 100% is better than having 3 wastewalkers at 66% and none dead.

Don't waste chi on BoF unless for smth drastic like your raid needing statue shields. Dont SCK, single target focus things down.

---------- Post added 2013-05-23 at 06:36 PM ----------

Also to all the guilds having an issue on Horridon hc in the final phase, knock some sense into your healers, cuz they are failing terribly, they should be able to keep up a monk with no shuffle, let alone one thats properly playing their class.

Tell them that ALL(every single one of them) the healers should be focusing on the horridon tank 100% of the time. Dire Call will not kill anyone, and if it will, it will be a one shot because they wont have enough effective health (and or they didnt pop a personal CD). There is NO raid dmg going out in that phase other than Dire Call, and you have a RLY long time inbetween each DC. So much so that, the raid wide hots, or Battle Healer from a pala, will top them off eventually. They should be focussing on the tanks taking 40% hp melee swings. Do it like this, and its a piss take of a boss.

-- This is after Jalak dies ofc, because before him, tank dmg is laughable

I'm tanking adds exclusively, pally is tanking boss fulltime.

I understand fully the whole 1 dead worth more than 2 half-dead thing, in fact I preach it to the DPS. The problem is that when I lay off of AoE nothing dies, we get so many adds piled up that things get out of control, so we in the humblest words possible, need my DPS, I don't know what other conclusions to draw. If I single target, nothing dies, if I AoE we can barely squeak by each door without getting too much overlap.

We're dying in final phase because horridon is practically at full life because we get no uptime on him because we barely kill the adds.

I'm honestly not sure there's anything I can do. If all our DPS were pulling their weight I'd be single targetting stuff down and we'd be killing it no problem. =|


The only thing I can think to do is start doing my job more "right" and single target stuff and keep my shuffle up fulltime and let things crash and burn if that's how they end up.

[SurrealNight]

Our overall DPS is crap.
I'm trying to compensate with an increased focus on doing damage, my shuffle uptime is suffering as a result. Breath of fire does a LOT of damage to those adds, and can daze them, and frankly we just plain need the DPS more than we need my shuffle to be up more.
I'm taking a lot of damage. Bears are actually sorta dangerous since it's 25heroic.
I'm in 10m gearing ideology atm, fullon crit, zero mastery.
I could put on more mastery and stam, but I'd be losing damage. How much will stam and mastery really help? Is it worth losing damage?

I'm fairly certain that of all our problems I'm not the reason we can't kill it. But I'd still like to hear suggestions on what I could potentially be doing on this fight to make it work.

If you REALLY want to use BoF then you'll probably have to stack more haste or switch to Power Strikes which generates more Chi than Ascension until like 9k. Personally I don't touch BoF even when we were wiping at enrage and currently at # 81 rank (I tank all 4 doors). I just do the normal SCK instead of jab business.

The # 1 rule of fight club is never let shuffle drop, there should never be an instance while you are actively tanking where it's considered to be ok.

You can see from armory I'm a full crit build and as Zonex mentioned tanks dying at the end is often the healers fault (assuming tanks are doing their job) and we had issues with our healers not giving the tanks enough love until they realized just how hard Horridon hits at the end. All of my tank deaths have been around Dire Call going out, Triple Puncture hasn't killed me ever on heroic.

I use Xuen on this fight and pop him for Door 2, Door 4, and Horridon. On Door 4 to manage the bears I grab the 1st bear, then the 2nd bear and Horridon tank takes the 3rd temporarily to pull away some cleave's from the melee DPS. Once I have 2nd Bear where I am happy I pop Xuen and let him tank that bear for the duration. Once 1st bear dies I pull the 3rd from the Horridon tank.

Also on Door 4 we migrate one of our best single target DPS (usually a rogue) onto Horridon for the rest of the fight. If you have adds up from a previous door your DPS is to low and you have to improve it or it's just not going to happen. Warlock's and the like should also be keeping some dot uptime on Horridon the majority of the fight.

For managing a 25m group our guild carries a very large roster with over 30 active raiders and people know they may/can be asked to sit on any given night. With summer coming up we know a lot of people will be out doing stuff and don't want to lose critical mass for raiding. Officers are pretty much out recruiting almost every night so we can keep enough active raiders and get enough applications to only pick up solid looking players.

Hopefully some of the above helps. We got our 2nd kill this week and it was solid but still killed him during enrage (he one shot me through Zen Med lawlz).

---------- Post added 2013-05-23 at 02:05 PM ----------

The only thing I can think to do is start doing my job more "right" and single target stuff and keep my shuffle up fulltime and let things crash and burn if that's how they end up.

Keg Smash + SCK instead of Jab is really all that is needed. Never used BoF on H Blade Lord either and still in top 100 ranking.

[Trendy-Ideology]

We've got add carryovers on 2>3 and then tons more from 3>4 and then usually several from 4>jalik.

So yea, DPS is just that bad.

For the record I don't consider letting shuffle drop to be ok, I just felt obligated to try to do more damage in every way possible. It ends up being ~20+% of my DPS. I might swap into some haste so I can shuffle and keep the dot up on the dot-able mobs. But really the issue is just the DPS sucks overall.


Other problem is that atm our roster is like 28 people with like one or two semi-perm MIAs, and a few "I can't make this day"s. Two of our raid nights we would BARELY have 25 if no one "called in sick" and one day we have to bench 2ish people if everyone's available.

We need more recruits, badly. Lack of competent bodies is the only thing really holding us back atm. And I know people are actively out there recruiting for us, but the rate of attrition due to stupid stuff like babies and vocational changes is just as fast as we can recruit.

If you guys are killing him at enrage with competent DPS and a full roster ... that doesn't bode well for us when we don't have a bench to pull from if someone needs to be sat.

There's a few people who's performance is so bad that we'd replace them in a heartbeat if they weren't filling a spot that would otherwise be empty. 60k dps is better than no dps...(except on jinrok when you wipe us cause you didn't move out...)

[kaiadam]

I wouldn't be so quick to say "focus the kill targets only!" - it's not as if the gate adds are irrelevant and only balcony adds matter. The basilisks have an aoe stun on gate 1, the bloodlords do the most damage of any add in that fight on gate 2 and effusions really mess up your day, the diseases from gate 3 generally tick for far more damage on the raid than frozen orb, and the fireballs from the casters on gate 4 + dire call are the leading cause of deaths (along with chain lightning).

Anyway, if it's possible, try to tank your stack of adds on top of Horridon while aoeing. I aim to keep up shuffle 100% while I'm tanking stuff, just to be on the safe side, but it's not that big of a deal if you drop it now and then. Do note that the breath of fire dot doesn't stick to most of the big adds because immunity to dizzying haze. Stupid mechanic, that. It's still a good ability when you have a bunch of adds together though - don't forget RJW & maybe zen sphere/chi burst as well.

Don't be discouraged if Horridon is at high hp. Our first kill, the dino was over 50% hp when we finally focused on him after we finished off Jalak, and we pulled out a win even with 6 people dead at that point (I think he was somewhere in the high 60s when we finished off the last add from gate 4). The dps will manage it sooner or later.

[SurrealNight]

If you guys are killing him at enrage with competent DPS and a full roster ... that doesn't bode well for us when we don't have a bench to pull from if someone needs to be sat.

We pulled a little over 4mil combined DPS with lowest being 146k @ 12:19. You wont get much more time than that before an enraged dire call obliterates everyone left. I can't remember where we have him going into last phase but I think it's somewhere around 70%. If your not close to those marks then probably best to stop doing attempts and just do some normal clears for gear and time to find some new blood. Nothing you can do personally is going to close that gap so might as well keep playing the "right" way.

On a 25m roster it's not unusual to have 3ish people posting out every raid night which is why we carry a 30+ person roster. Only two tanks so doubt we'd get much progression if either of us are out but we have some plate DPS that can at least manage normal modes. We probably have 3+ people "sitting" any given fight but use EPGP so they still get credit and we try to bring people in for bosses they need loot from the most if possible.

Oh one other thing we do on Horridon is have the ranged/healers always stacks on the "right" side of every single gate. That way they can always keep me between the them and the gate adds as I slowly kite back as poison/orbs/totems start coming back. This way the gate add spawns have to run through me to get to DPS and it's easy to pick up with SCK.

[Dimzum]

Dumb question I'm sure. We managed to down Horridon (10man normal) last week but I know we could clean it up a bit. I see people using SCK. Is one able to still dodge/parry during the cast time of SCK?

We are working on Council now. We're trying the burn Sul method. I'm thinking whoever is tanking Sul should be tanking Frost King as well for the increased Vengeance and cleave damage. Usually it is myself and a druid tank.

[SurrealNight]

Dumb question I'm sure. We managed to down Horridon (10man normal) last week but I know we could clean it up a bit. I see people using SCK. Is one able to still dodge/parry during the cast time of SCK?

Yes, the only drawback from SCK is it stops your auto-attack so you aren't building Elusive Brew during. I haven't found that to be an issue on Horridon though.

[Trendy-Ideology]

Thanks for the tips guys.

We wont be any closer to a kill this week due to 21 signups tonight but if we attempt it again next week I think I may have some input and changes to make that might help.


@Kaiadam: I'd really like to stack and cleave but people aren't handling the responsibility of not dying to boss cleaves as reliably as we'd like yet. It's an eventual goal to have the adds closer to the boss though. Anecdotally it seems like dizzying haze seems to occasionally apply to some adds, but not 100% of the time. Dunno if it's accuracy based or can be dodged/parried but I definitely had times where it applied after a second keg smash but not on the first. I might watch more closely and report back on that.

[Zonex]

I wouldn't be so quick to say "focus the kill targets only!" - it's not as if the gate adds are irrelevant and only balcony adds matter. The basilisks have an aoe stun on gate 1, the bloodlords do the most damage of any add in that fight on gate 2 and effusions really mess up your day, the diseases from gate 3 generally tick for far more damage on the raid than frozen orb, and the fireballs from the casters on gate 4 + dire call are the leading cause of deaths (along with chain lightning).

Anyway, if it's possible, try to tank your stack of adds on top of Horridon while aoeing. I aim to keep up shuffle 100% while I'm tanking stuff, just to be on the safe side, but it's not that big of a deal if you drop it now and then. Do note that the breath of fire dot doesn't stick to most of the big adds because immunity to dizzying haze. Stupid mechanic, that. It's still a good ability when you have a bunch of adds together though - don't forget RJW & maybe zen sphere/chi burst as well.

Don't be discouraged if Horridon is at high hp. Our first kill, the dino was over 50% hp when we finally focused on him after we finished off Jalak, and we pulled out a win even with 6 people dead at that point (I think he was somewhere in the high 60s when we finished off the last add from gate 4). The dps will manage it sooner or later.

I would agree with you for the adds from gate 3, but everywhere else, balcony adds take precedent. Wastewalkers dish out heavy magic dmg that need to be dispeled, and there are only a finite amount of dispels going out. The basilisks oon the other hand, do 1 ability, and thats channeling a stun, they can be stunned, interrupted, even disoriented to break the channel. Gate 2 is straight forward, if you can burst the balcony adds down fast enough, you wont get effusions, its a no brainer, yes the charge sorta hurts, but more effusions means more interrupts that need to be going out and more dispels should interrupts fail. gate 3 is one where the gate adds are actually quite dangerous, but AoE seldom works for that part anyway since every thing is so spread out. As a tank, you would have the 3 Warlords on you anyway and you want to dps the lowest down with single target rather than take all 3 down gradually but kill none fast. Gate 4 works especially around proper dps management and control. The ranged and some melee take care of the flame casters anyway, as they are on priority above bears and shamans. As the tank, there wont be many times you will be in range of all the flame casters all at once, in which case you again, have to focus single target on whichever bear/shaman you want.

As for gate adds being quite dangerous, it's true, they are dangerous, but hat's more dangerous are the debuffs and random shit that the balcony adds like to torture the raid with. You can either let the gate adds live longer but only hit the tank, which is predictable damage for the tank's healer, and focus down the prioritized kill targets, or you can trade it in, for marginally less damage on the tank, but quite a lot more damage on the raid, which suffice to say, is less preditable damage than the tank's incoming damage.

[Aminance]

How much of haste I should aim for?
Im below 510.

[Rixarius]

How much of haste I should aim for?
Im below 510.

7-8k is pretty comfortable.

[Aminance]

7-8k is pretty comfortable.

What the hell.
Aren't I supposed to stacking crit? 8kish is just too high for below 500 dont u think?

[Sorrior]

What the hell.
Aren't I supposed to stacking crit? 8kish is just too high for below 500 dont u think?

I think alot of these guides assume a certain ILV.

Pre ToT we were stacking haste as one of our biggest stats. ESOECIALLY pre ascension... But yeah when you get more basic haste from gear i'm wagering you can then reforge more easily to crit,

[Radio]

What the hell.
Aren't I supposed to stacking crit? 8kish is just too high for below 500 dont u think?

4-5k is honestly pretty comfortable, 4 set t15 will make it even more comfortable.

[Bryce]

I'm running with 3.5k haste, but I'm 530il.

[Alucin]

4-5k is honestly pretty comfortable, 4 set t15 will make it even more comfortable.

Yeah I'd go 4-5k. Can go lower, but over 5k seems too much.
Power strikes is better for chi generation too.

---------- Post added 2013-05-24 at 12:04 PM ----------

I guess I overreacted a bit. Sleepless night ftl >_> I guess we shall see how it will look on ptr closer to 5.4. It's too early to come to conclusions, sorry.

On other topic: we are going for tortos hc tonight with me kiting bats. Got macro for lightening on humming crystal, specced momentum & charging ox wave and a disco with shields that increase speed. Would you have any specific tips for this fight?

EDIT: one more question- do dps kill the kited bats or I have to run with truckload of them on my back for the whole encounter?

http://sunniersartofwar.com/blog/201...-kiting-guide/

I'm going closer to this guide tonight. Main issue I seemed to have last time was that the bats stopped going to the paly tank and went to shaman healer instead. I do seem to be spruiking sunnier recently, but she seems to be answering questions in her blog posts just as I start to ask them.

[Bamboozles]

Hey guys. I've been tanking for a little while now and I've run into a problem - my DPS output is suffering and I don't know why or what is causing it.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...C3%A8ev/simple

I'm doing roughly 22 - 30k DPS and I'm out of ideas as to why. My rotation seems fine and I've followed not only the guide in this thread, but ones on Noxxic, Icy Veins and EJ and it looks like I'm doing everything right.

Any and all help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

[Pazx]

Hey guys. I've been tanking for a little while now and I've run into a problem - my DPS output is suffering and I don't know why or what is causing it.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...C3%A8ev/simple

I'm doing roughly 22 - 30k DPS and I'm out of ideas as to why. My rotation seems fine and I've followed not only the guide in this thread, but ones on Noxxic, Icy Veins and EJ and it looks like I'm doing everything right.

Any and all help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

what fights?

to be fair dps isn't your main concern if you are a tank

[Radio]

Hey guys. I've been tanking for a little while now and I've run into a problem - my DPS output is suffering and I don't know why or what is causing it.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...C3%A8ev/simple

I'm doing roughly 22 - 30k DPS and I'm out of ideas as to why. My rotation seems fine and I've followed not only the guide in this thread, but ones on Noxxic, Icy Veins and EJ and it looks like I'm doing everything right.

Any and all help would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Your gear level is still pretty low and you won't be getting much vengeance from 5 man heroic content, it'll be easier to help once you get to 460 and start tanking some MSV LFR.