The Brewmaster Tanking Guide [5.4]

[SurrealNight]

And I'm sitting at a comfortable 6.58% hit and 6.94% expertise and just finished up Will 25 N. While misses were noticeable, I was able to get 6th in the US (I think) on damage, and took 6 million less damage than my prot pally buddy.

The misses didn't drive you crazy? I really feel like it would F with my flow especially with a keg smash being lost.

Love our DPS and utility, we've done quite a few kills very close to the enrage timer so I know without my DPS (I've ranked on almost every boss we've killed) we would probably have wiped.

[Bryce]

It was also stated before but I tried it anyways during 100 gara'jal heroic attempts. What I noticed:

- The amount of elusive brew you get is nearly the same, averaged over the tries i can't see a difference
- The dmg with dual wielding was ~7-8 k dps higher averaged. (I got 2H from spirit kings with windsong and 1x gara'jal fist with dancing steel and 1 463offhand with windsong) btw. dancing steel has amazing uptimes >50%

So basically I think you can use both ... 2H and 1H. Since I am orc I use 1H because of the 1% exp I get... but besides that there is no big difference

Well I basically get both since I'm the only one on both so I think I'll try the 2h out and see for myself Sunday. But I don't have dancing steel for either of them yet because they're like 8k a piece on my server and I'm a broke ass and a cheap ass :P.

[Chuupag]

Wall of text crits for 16543...wild pidgey fainted.

But seriously...why do you need to make another spreadsheet when Ven at EJ already has one that the community broadly agrees is accurate.

[towelliee]

Ok Garan'jal the Spiritbinder.

How is everyone gearing for the HEROIC encounter? I am currently full Mastery about 15% Mastery raid buffed. Using Mastery/Armor Elixir with Milk 200 Mastery food.

So I chose to OT this fight so I can build shuffle with the Warrior tank. How does everyone handle their CD's?

For me I use the following


Fortifying Brew
Diffuse Magic
Elusive Brew + Mastery Trinket + Armor Pot

After this I have 2 PS / barriers / 3 Sacs / 3 Devos / 3 BOPS

Now what sucks is I have times when one Paladin has Voodoo doll so they cant, other paladin is down under can't use that. I use EB whenever a kick comes up and also keep Shuffle up. I PB almost anything since I built so much shuffle I last almost whole minute with it up.

Also Hermes WAS awesome for this fight until it bugs out when my cds go down under.

[The Madgod]

The misses didn't drive you crazy? I really feel like it would F with my flow especially with a keg smash being lost.

Love our DPS and utility, we've done quite a few kills very close to the enrage timer so I know without my DPS (I've ranked on almost every boss we've killed) we would probably have wiped.

Sure, they were annoying, but it wasn't driving me crazier than I am. If KS is lost, you can do a couple jabs in quick succession and get the chi back. It'll stop you for 1 or 2 GCDs, but it won't fuck with you that much or that often.

[Zonex]

Wall of text crits for 16543...wild pidgey fainted.

But seriously...why do you need to make another spreadsheet when Ven at EJ already has one that the community broadly agrees is accurate.

I looked at the EJ thread, and the spreadsheet seems to be a collective few people's take on a class spec, the majority of the people who use that spreadsheet to decide how to gem and gear have no idea under what pretenses those calculations were made and derived from. Just thinking about the spec in general, there are so many different ways to go about it, for one you wont always be tanking, so it means you can build shuffle up, this isnt fully taken into account in the spreadsheet. The spraedsheet tells us how to gear for a textbook fight where we are just standing still and taking damage and dishing it out, but the reality is, that doesn't happen too often, and basing our gear optimization on that notion makes someone unknowingly sacrifice a better overall gear setup.

There is also the notion of why they actually give Hit and Exp the rating it does have, and that is based on The Ox statue putting shields on raid members, which in a way doesn't directly affect the the "active" mitigation of the BrM class at all, it however does in a round about way affect their survivability (more guards on raid = less healing = more mana for tank healing + mana for dmg = shorter fight = less dmg = more damage mitigated in total). They also follow the same logic for Agi, whilst it is a great dps stat and affects the calculation of our Guard absorb, EH healing, and Chi Wave healing, what affects it way more is our AP gained from Vengeance, which is dependent on the fight. The little marginal gain Agi, hit, exp give to buffing these abilities is in a Diminishing returns relationship with direct Active Mitigation. The fact that it frees up GCD's gives a player with 15 EXP and Yellow Hitcap, 2.55 free GCDs a minute, hardly worth anything, as the value for Exp/hit is linear from 0 to the hard limit.

[Vagrancy]

Ok Garan'jal the Spiritbinder.

How is everyone gearing for the HEROIC encounter? I am currently full Mastery about 15% Mastery raid buffed. Using Mastery/Armor Elixir with Milk 200 Mastery food.

So I chose to OT this fight so I can build shuffle with the Warrior tank. How does everyone handle their CD's?

For me I use the following


Fortifying Brew
Diffuse Magic
Elusive Brew + Mastery Trinket + Armor Pot

After this I have 2 PS / barriers / 3 Sacs / 3 Devos / 3 BOPS

Now what sucks is I have times when one Paladin has Voodoo doll so they cant, other paladin is down under can't use that. I use EB whenever a kick comes up and also keep Shuffle up. I PB almost anything since I built so much shuffle I last almost whole minute with it up.

Also Hermes WAS awesome for this fight until it bugs out when my cds go down under.

I went mastery as well, but changed my legs enchants to agi/crit and my bracers to 500 agi (LW), went with 450 stam food and agi flask. Kept my hit and expertise at the softcaps.

I always OT as well to build my shuffle, then when the other tank is banished I

EB + DMF OX as its about to expire I dampen harm + armor pot

by then the other tank which is a pally is usally out of the spirit realm and Sac's me, followed by a druid Ironbark. After this I usally call for a Vig if our warriors are able to or another sac from our holy pally if he doesnt have voodoo dolls. Our best attempt last night was 14% last night.

I'll try my best to save my FB when I see someone with a CD is the spirit realm and others on CD.

[Koji2k11]

did anyone test shuffle timecap ? i managed to stack it to 5 minutes took me about 20-25 minutes

[SurrealNight]

Sure, they were annoying, but it wasn't driving me crazier than I am. If KS is lost, you can do a couple jabs in quick succession and get the chi back. It'll stop you for 1 or 2 GCDs, but it won't fuck with you that much or that often.

Where did you come up with those hit/expertise % values? Are you just taking what rating you get naturally from gear and leaving it at that? Why not reforge away the rest if the misses don't bother you? Is it acceptable to end a statement with a question mark? Was that last one an actual question or an incorrectly punctuated statement?

[The Madgod]

Where did you come up with those hit/expertise % values? Are you just taking what rating you get naturally from gear and leaving it at that? Why not reforge away the rest if the misses don't bother you? Is it acceptable to end a statement with a question mark? Was that last one an actual question or an incorrectly punctuated statement?

I got those values from a combination of the gems I am too lazy to switch out and the natural amount I have on gear.

The hit is actually all reforged away and it's still fairly high up. Expertise is reforged out of and into, but there's a net loss.

Once again, a bit lazy. I'm planning on doing it just to see, but right now it's pretty comfortable, like I said, so why fix what's not broken?

No, it is not acceptable to end a statement in a question mark.

That was a question. A dumb question, but a question nonetheless.

[Archdrood]

What do you guys think of the 5.1 change to Ascension now for BM instead of Power Strikes. > max Chi by 1 AND 15% more Energy regen

[Chuupag]

I looked at the EJ thread, and the spreadsheet seems to be a collective few people's take on a class spec, the majority of the people who use that spreadsheet to decide how to gem and gear have no idea under what pretenses those calculations were made and derived from. Just thinking about the spec in general, there are so many different ways to go about it, for one you wont always be tanking, so it means you can build shuffle up, this isnt fully taken into account in the spreadsheet. The spraedsheet tells us how to gear for a textbook fight where we are just standing still and taking damage and dishing it out, but the reality is, that doesn't happen too often, and basing our gear optimization on that notion makes someone unknowingly sacrifice a better overall gear setup.

There is also the notion of why they actually give Hit and Exp the rating it does have, and that is based on The Ox statue putting shields on raid members, which in a way doesn't directly affect the the "active" mitigation of the BrM class at all, it however does in a round about way affect their survivability (more guards on raid = less healing = more mana for tank healing + mana for dmg = shorter fight = less dmg = more damage mitigated in total). They also follow the same logic for Agi, whilst it is a great dps stat and affects the calculation of our Guard absorb, EH healing, and Chi Wave healing, what affects it way more is our AP gained from Vengeance, which is dependent on the fight. The little marginal gain Agi, hit, exp give to buffing these abilities is in a Diminishing returns relationship with direct Active Mitigation. The fact that it frees up GCD's gives a player with 15 EXP and Yellow Hitcap, 2.55 free GCDs a minute, hardly worth anything, as the value for Exp/hit is linear from 0 to the hard limit.

Not to keep trashing on your idea, if you want to run with it go, but I think just using your head can answer most of those questions without resorting to a behemoth of a spreadsheet.

Assuming you have a base amount of haste to generate enough chi for what you need to do the breakdown is roughly as follows:

~Progression means effective health...which for us is mastery and armor. EH becomes less important the more gear you have.

~Adds(think spine fights) means avoidance, which for us means crit, and to a lesser extent dodge/parry. This is what you also lean towards at the end of a cycle where the boss isn't gonna 2-3 shot you if the RNG doesn't like you at that moment.

~Offtanking or being the tank with less need to survive big hits means dps increases, hit/exp/haste.

That's about it, that's how it's always been for tanks no matter your creed. The stats and numbers may change depending on class but that is how the scenarios break down.

---------- Post added 2012-10-26 at 03:00 PM ----------

What do you guys think of the 5.1 change to Ascension now for BM instead of Power Strikes. > max Chi by 1 AND 15% more Energy regen

Probably will be a plateau thing, ie once you have X haste Ascension will be better than Power Strike/Chi Brew. That is unless we hit that 'haste soft cap' before that becomes relevant.

[Zonex]

Not to keep trashing on your idea, if you want to run with it go, but I think just using your head can answer most of those questions without resorting to a behemoth of a spreadsheet.

Assuming you have a base amount of haste to generate enough chi for what you need to do the breakdown is roughly as follows:

~Progression means effective health...which for us is mastery and armor. EH becomes less important the more gear you have.

~Adds(think spine fights) means avoidance, which for us means crit, and to a lesser extent dodge/parry. This is what you also lean towards at the end of a cycle where the boss isn't gonna 2-3 shot you if the RNG doesn't like you at that moment.

~Offtanking or being the tank with less need to survive big hits means dps increases, hit/exp/haste.

That's about it, that's how it's always been for tanks no matter your creed. The stats and numbers may change depending on class but that is how the scenarios break down.

---------- Post added 2012-10-26 at 03:00 PM ----------



Probably will be a plateau thing, ie once you have X haste Ascension will be better than Power Strike/Chi Brew. That is unless we hit that 'haste soft cap' before that becomes relevant.

Of course it boils down to the same generic formula based on the tank spec, however the difference is to what extent will minmaxing take it. I for one would like to minmax, but dedicating the time for constructing a spreadsheet of this many variations seems to be a wasted effort if I am the only one to gain any use from it. People seem content with the resources they have been given currently, and seem to base their performance off it and relative to everyone else who uses it (which is everyone atm), I guess if I do the same, my point of reference is the rest of the BrM player community as well, and not an alternate OC based model.

[Chuupag]

Of course it boils down to the same generic formula based on the tank spec, however the difference is to what extent will minmaxing take it. I for one would like to minmax, but dedicating the time for constructing a spreadsheet of this many variations seems to be a wasted effort if I am the only one to gain any use from it. People seem content with the resources they have been given currently, and seem to base their performance off it and relative to everyone else who uses it (which is everyone atm), I guess if I do the same, my point of reference is the rest of the BrM player community as well, and not an alternate OC based model.

I think you're missing the fact that Ven's spreadsheet is phenomenally complex and detailed. Right out of the box it does use the Patchwerk style fight of just sitting there and getting smacked on, but you can customize it to your heart's content. On the other tabs you can completely negate the statue from the equation if you just want to worry about your own min-maxing. If you think you don't want to use guard on CD, or if you think your reaction time is less than perfect for small cds like Keg Smash, you can change the frequency of use. If you fiddle with the boss dps on the front page you can emulate an add fight by making the boss's swing timer .3 and reduce the damage to 50k to simulate 10 little nappy adds on you. It has a basic priority list of abilities that are used that you can tweak to more accurately reflect your playstyle and it will give you the stat priority, dps, and optimal shuffle uptime for all of this. The possibilities are all there...you just have to make the tool tell you what you want to know.

[Deleted]

I went mastery as well, but changed my legs enchants to agi/crit and my bracers to 500 agi (LW), went with 450 stam food and agi flask. Kept my hit and expertise at the softcaps.

I always OT as well to build my shuffle, then when the other tank is banished I

EB + DMF OX as its about to expire I dampen harm + armor pot

by then the other tank which is a pally is usally out of the spirit realm and Sac's me, followed by a druid Ironbark. After this I usally call for a Vig if our warriors are able to or another sac from our holy pally if he doesnt have voodoo dolls. Our best attempt last night was 14% last night.

I'll try my best to save my FB when I see someone with a CD is the spirit realm and others on CD.

I went full Haste for this fight. We downed him after 102 tries ... I think 5 Wipes were because of me dying. I understand why you go for mastery for this fight since 100% of the dmg you take is taken by the doll players too --> high mastery means less initial dmg --> less dmg for the dolls

BUT I have to disagree anyways :P Thats why:

1. Every 8 seconds Gara'jal does his Hit which can not be absorbed nor staggered but it can be avoided ! This hit does around 150-170k dmg. If it hits together with 2 or 3 shadow bolts from the vodoo masks (dmg which can not be staggered as well!) somebody will most likely die. After 100 tries I can really tell that this are the occasions where dolls are dying and thats why I want max haste to maximize my avoid.

2. Chi Wave is once again extremely strong in this fight. It crits for 120-150k and this can be a life safer for yourself or a doll player which is low. We killed the encounter with 2 Healers so my heal was essential especially if one healer was in the spirit realm.

3. enrage timer .... It sounds strange but the enrage timer is really tight .. every little bit counts in this fight.

Just my opinion

[Bruce Leroy]

I've gotten away with tanking with my full WW setup gems, enchants etc, sits me directly at hit and exp soft caps.

Only fight I've had a bit of an issue with is Elegon because he hits like a truck, I think its part of me being a noob at tanking and missing my cooldowns etc. Otherwise it doesnt feel like BrMs take much damage at all. I definitely notice on that fight when I get parried on a BoK or Keg Smash. Going to do some more testing on it when we get back in there on Tuesday.

[Zonex]

I think you're missing the fact that Ven's spreadsheet is phenomenally complex and detailed. Right out of the box it does use the Patchwerk style fight of just sitting there and getting smacked on, but you can customize it to your heart's content. On the other tabs you can completely negate the statue from the equation if you just want to worry about your own min-maxing. If you think you don't want to use guard on CD, or if you think your reaction time is less than perfect for small cds like Keg Smash, you can change the frequency of use. If you fiddle with the boss dps on the front page you can emulate an add fight by making the boss's swing timer .3 and reduce the damage to 50k to simulate 10 little nappy adds on you. It has a basic priority list of abilities that are used that you can tweak to more accurately reflect your playstyle and it will give you the stat priority, dps, and optimal shuffle uptime for all of this. The possibilities are all there...you just have to make the tool tell you what you want to know.

That all seems great and user intuitive once you get used to it. I could go on about this, but it seems clear people are content with the amount of customization they can personally configure on the spreadsheet. My introducing an OC based model would if nothing else, confuse most people as it is a much more round about way of thinking, and leaving DPS as DPS seems to be an easier way to go about it.

[SurrealNight]

Once again, a bit lazy. I'm planning on doing it just to see, but right now it's pretty comfortable, like I said, so why fix what's not broken?

Have to keep that in mind, though right now we are still to close to enrage timers so I'll keep the soft caps to keep my DPS up there.

That was a question. A dumb question, but a question nonetheless.

Someone doesn't watch the Colbert Report =P

[gynshon]

After defeating 6/6HM and testing both all mastery reforges versus all haste reforges, I have come to the conclusion that Haste > Mastery on all the current encounters, including Gara'jal. Coupled with Pure Agi gems, and Agi+Secondary for those off-color slots, it really makes a huge difference in damage taken, and damage done.

[The Madgod]

Have to keep that in mind, though right now we are still to close to enrage timers so I'll keep the soft caps to keep my DPS up there.

Someone doesn't watch the Colbert Report =P

Yeah if you're close to enrage, extra damage is a bonus.

And I've been awake for 48 hours with no caffeine. Shush. I don't get quotes very much.