The Brewmaster Tanking Guide [5.4]

[Gallahadd]

It SHOULD be okay Hijiri, if I'm not mistaken they've said all pets (and if Spirit Wolves are included, im assuming Xuen is) will be getting stat scaling from us, so maybe he'll be getting some of our Dodge/armor etc, then again.. maybe the taunt/threat gen will be focused onto us, not him? Because I could see some problems with having a summonable taunting pet as a tank, say there's a big boss hit, that we need to avoid due to a debuff it stacks, now normally you'd have to tank swap, but as a Monk you can summon Xuen, taunt, he gets the debuff, taunt back and ta da! Solo tanked. Also.. we're tanks, we don't NEED a pet that tanks for us, it would be quite a nice mechanic if we could send him away to work as a mini MD type thing, say a big add is spawning across the room, summon him, set him on the add as it spawns and he'll bring it over to us.

It's looking to me like Xuen is shaping into a better version of Guardian of Ancient Kings

also..

I believe the build you currently have still has Zen Sphere is way way too strong. For testing content and giving feedback, it’d be helpful if you didn’t use Zen Sphere.

Saw that coming how savage do you think the nerfs will be? It does sorta make me laugh that they're nerfing ZS because it's too strong, and that makes it too obvious a choice in the same build they're buffing Xuen (who was already a very cool, viable choice) to the point he offers way to much and will be the clear choice for all, in my opinion at least (Psycho Crusher is only good for Street Fighter RPing, and Rushing Jade wind for AoE, so I MIGHT using it for Hc's/trash, but Xuen is the clear choice for bosses/small packs of trash)

[Gallahadd]

Holy Savage Nerfbats Batman!

the Zen Sphere changes are in and.... DAMN
Chi Burst down 90%
Chi Wave down 80%
Zen Sphere damage down 80% and healing down 90% AP scaling down 75%

... yeash :S anyone think this is a little harsh? I mean I know it needed balancing, but 90% is a bit OTT, and nerfing all the others as well.... I mean they don't really seem worth using now...

[The Madgod]

I expected it... though not to this degree. I'll have to see how it feels in-game before I pass any judgement... but Blizzard DID say they didn't want these things to be used regularly... though if it's so low, they might not be used at all. They're probably trying to find the sweet spot of "useful, but not extremely so".

[Hijiri]

Does the shuffle on Rushing Jade Wind make a difference on choosing it over Xuen?

[The Madgod]

I would say not really, no. They're for two different situations. Rushing Jade Wind and Blackout Kick both cost 2 chi. The fact that you can get shuffle from the former's nice, but it's for AoE. Xuen's more for single target, as evidence by the taunt. Basically, RJW allows for us to retain the same amount of mitigation but bump up threat during AoE, and Xuen allows us to retain the same amount of mitigation (since BoK is single target anyway) but bump up threat for single target.

[Gallahadd]

I expected it... though not to this degree.

Same, I was expecting around 50 maybe 60%, but 90... DAMN..

Tbh if they want them to be good, but not rotational, they should have left them as they were, but stuck a on a CD, that way they would still be worth using, but couldn't be kept up 100% of the time. As of now I can't really see the point in spending 2 chi for a sub 1k heal.

[Deleted]

I guess the numbers will be buffed again in the future. As somebody already stated finding a sweet spot is what Blizzard seems to be doing and in order to do this you have to nerf something significantly to see if people still use it. If not, buff it again so it becomes more useful.

[Lissa]

as a Monk you can summon Xuen, taunt, he gets the debuff, taunt back and ta da! Solo tanked.

Pretty much what I tried out tonight at Tsulong heroic testing. Got Xuen to take my Shadow Breath for me.

Only issue being that he first went behind the boss, so Tsulong turned around for the breath, which isn't just deadly for the raid on this fight, but on any number of fights..

Seems to be quite the tank though:

[02:39:41.455] Lissasmonk summons Xuen with Invoke Xuen, the White Tiger
[02:39:41.911] Xuen gains Provoke from Xuen
[02:39:42.925] Tsulong hits Xuen 144063
[02:39:44.386] Tsulong hits Xuen 131919
[02:39:45.775] Tsulong hits Xuen 124051
[02:39:47.293] Tsulong hits Xuen 169765
[02:39:47.547] Xuen's Provoke is refreshed by Xuen
[02:39:48.788] Tsulong hits Xuen 49501 (O: 88428)
[02:39:49.152] Xuen's Provoke fades from Xuen
[02:39:49.152] Xuen dies

[Gallahadd]

Interesting... although sadly if I read the front page right, he wont work on raidbosses come live

also by the look of it, he doesn't gain your avoidance but I guess that would be a LITTLE op, seeing the damage he can soak...

Should be pretty fun for lulzing around in Hcs/Challenge modes, and EPIC for soloing low level content, the more I see from monks, the more it's looking like my new Monk, Daruma, will be my main come MoP

How are monk tanks btw? It does seem like every raid vid I see uses one as MT, is that just because they're new so everyone has one, because the vids were all recorded before the ZS nerfs, or they're just THAT good.

[Gallahadd]

Mastery: Elusive Brawler now increases your Stagger amount by an additional 4%, up from 2%.

So they buffed Mastery, as we knew they would.... Thing is, have the buffed it ENOUGH? True they've doubled the amount if transfers, but is it any better now than it was before, given how much passive transference we get for Stagger, and how good all the other secondary stats are for us?

[The Madgod]

Mastery: Elusive Brawler now increases your Stagger amount by an additional 4%, up from 2%.

So they buffed Mastery, as we knew they would.... Thing is, have the buffed it ENOUGH? True they've doubled the amount if transfers, but is it any better now than it was before, given how much passive transference we get for Stagger, and how good all the other secondary stats are for us?

Well since they are buffing energy regen, that means haste will be less useful, so comparatively it's getting back up there. The thing is, though, the more we stagger, the less damage we take overall. So depending on how much you use purifying brew and how much of that DoT you take, you could potentially be reducing damage taken by 2-3% if you have 6-9% mastery, which is easier to do now. That doesn't seem like much, but as a tank, every little bit helps. Whether it's better than crit (for elusive brew) or dodge / parry for raw avoidance, is debatable, and a good bit of playtesting would have to be done to figure that out.

[Nobleshield]

So as far as rotations/priority system goes, it seems like you (not in any particular order, just as far as what you need to do):

* Expel Harm (or Jab if at full health) to generate Chi if 1-2 targets, Spinning Crane Kick for 3+
* Blackout Kick on cooldown?
* Purifying Brew as needed (guessing you should wait until you're either about to die, about to take a big hit, or it's at Heavy and heals can't keep up?)
* Tiger Palm x3 before using Guard, presumably unless you can't stack it for some reason and need a Guard immediately to avoid dying
* Guard on cooldown after 3x Tiger Palms, unless you know damage is incoming
* Dizzying Haze to pull (or use Rushing Jade + Spinning Crane)
* Keg Smash to keep up Weakened Blows?
* Fire Breath if necessary on trash packs
* Keep a Zen Sphere up as needed (maybe not with recent nerf?)

And then everything else is situational? Trying to wrap my head around how complex the Brewmaster will be in the event I decide to try one out.

[The Madgod]

BoK shouldn't necessarily be used on cooldown (if you're referring to the 6 second uptime of Stagger that it produces; BoK doesn't have an internal cooldown), but used as often as feasible to keep uptime of Stagger as high as possible. Fire Breath should be used on trash packs since it's just an amazing AoE damage ability... just be careful to make sure it doesn't hit CC'd targets. That, and TP can be used as a filler ability if you don't have anything else to push, but yes, essentially you are correct.

Well, that and using Elusive Brew whenever you get fairly high stacks for maxing out your dodge.

[Gallahadd]

Gotta say the more I see of Monks, the more excited I am about them I like the idea that our mastery isn't a flat out 'you take less damage', it does reduce the damage you take, but you have to be a bit clever about it, you need to work for that reduction, love it

I'm also liking that the priority system has lots of 'If X then use Y', as much as I love my pally, the prot rotation can get a little stale(although I'm not in beta, it may have changed).

Would Keg Smash be used on CD, even for single target, due to generating more Chi than Jab/Expel harm? Or is it just used to keep weakend Blows up.

btw, how is ZS after the nerf? Still worth having and keeping up as much as possible?

[The Madgod]

Would Keg Smash be used on CD, even for single target, due to generating more Chi than Jab/Expel harm? Or is it just used to keep weakend Blows up.

btw, how is ZS after the nerf? Still worth having and keeping up as much as possible?

KS shouldn't be used if you waste some of the chi it generates, but basically yeah use it on CD, regardless of single or AoE target.

And I have yet to test ZS, I remember posts saying it's a bit... blargh. Would have to test for myself to be sure.

[Atylia]

* Guard on cooldown after 3x Tiger Palms, unless you know damage is incoming

With Guard costing 2 Chi and Purifieing Brew only 1 Chi it is far better to spend the Chi on Purifieing Brew as you can clear alot more damage with it than the shield of Guard can actually provide. This is assuming that you clear significant dots of 80k ++

[The Madgod]

With Guard costing 2 Chi and Purifieing Brew only 1 Chi it is far better to spend the Chi on Purifieing Brew as you can clear alot more damage with it than the shield of Guard can actually provide. This is assuming that you clear significant dots of 80k ++

The problem is that in order to get DoTs of 80k+, you need to take damage before that. Guard allows you to negate that pre-DoT damage, thus its usefulness.

[Gallahadd]

KS shouldn't be used if you waste some of the chi it generates, but basically yeah use it on CD, regardless of single or AoE target.

And I have yet to test ZS, I remember posts saying it's a bit... blargh. Would have to test for myself to be sure.

Is there much problem with Chi Wasting? It seemed to me that with so many abilities using it you'd very rarely be sitting at 2+ chi.

and yeah I've heard it's pretty sucky now in comparison, how is tanking without it? are we still good or did it hit our survivability hard?

[Atylia]

The problem is that in order to get DoTs of 80k+, you need to take damage before that. Guard allows you to negate that pre-DoT damage, thus its usefulness.

The problem with guard is that it absorbs way too little, and heroic bosses are hitting for a significant amount of damage that even after Guard you will be left with quite a hefty DoT. The only boss where guard has a use atm is Lei Shi or any other incomming spell damage.

[The Madgod]

The problem with guard is that it absorbs way too little, and heroic bosses are hitting for a significant amount of damage that even after Guard you will be left with quite a hefty DoT. The only boss where guard has a use atm is Lei Shi or any other incomming spell damage.

Even so, it negates damage taken, regardless of the source. PB only negates your Stagger DoT. As well, it's 2 chi every 30 seconds. That doesn't give too much more DoT reduction than normal. I'd personally love to see parses which can back your position, since it's obviously going against intended mechanics.

Is there much problem with Chi Wasting? It seemed to me that with so many abilities using it you'd very rarely be sitting at 2+ chi.

and yeah I've heard it's pretty sucky now in comparison, how is tanking without it? are we still good or did it hit our survivability hard?

Well wasting resources is never a good idea.

As for zen sphere, I haven't been that bad without it. It puts a hit in our self healing though.