DK MoP Beta Class Changes

[BDF]

When people were doing the calcs comparing the first tier talents, did they account for unholy blight being able to lengthen the duration of diseases applied at the start with a prepot and trinket procs?

[Schizoide]

Simcraft does, yes. I don't know if SSHA's sim prepots or not.

[SSHA778]

When people were doing the calcs comparing the first tier talents, did they account for unholy blight being able to lengthen the duration of diseases applied at the start with a prepot and trinket procs?

Unholy Blight doesn't behave this way. Every pulse of Unholy Blight recalculates the AP attributed to the diseases.

Unless, you were referring to opening out the fight with UB, in which case, my sim opens with Outbreak, not UB. The damage from 6 disease ticks isn't going to show itself anyway.

[Deleted]

DKs are gonna suck so much at pvp in MOP, it's unreal. You (and I say You because even though I played dk since the start of wotlk, I was aware enough of the coming situation as to leave this sinking boat a month ago and rerolled hunter) guys are gonna get GLOBALED in 3s due to the horrid squishiness and utter lack of CCs and escapes. Death Pact ? Ok, you just bought 2 seconds. Lichborne ? Yes, any team with working brains are just gonna let you stand there for 5 seconds and spam yourself with deathcoils, assuming ofc you managed to get 100 rp and did no damage during this time so to save the rp. Main tactic: pressure dk and force him to blow AMS, then CC healer and nuke dk. For no healer team, just nuke the dk.
Dks are gonna be so bad at pvp in MoP. Enhancement shaman kind of bad. You thought cata was bad ? You ain't seen nothing yet.

Have fun with PVE, though. GC hasn't ruined that department...yet.

[BDF]

Unholy Blight doesn't behave this way. Every pulse of Unholy Blight recalculates the AP attributed to the diseases.

Unless, you were referring to opening out the fight with UB, in which case, my sim opens with Outbreak, not UB. The damage from 6 disease ticks isn't going to show itself anyway.

I was talking at the begining of the fight, keeps you from having to apply diseases with runes and then to wait for procs to use outbreak, and it adds ~10 seconds to the base duration for your first set of diseases with your prepot and trinket proc.

For example on morchok/ultrax I was able to have near %100 uptime on potion and creche proc in my diseases because of the back to back heroism and then frenzy

[Schizoide]

Simcraft does prepot, but it also opens with outbreak by default. Prioritizing UB over outbreak is not a DPS gain. It actually sims as a 0.026% DPS loss, probably because the outbreak cooldown is faster, but this is under the margin for error of 0.05%. So they are effectively identical.

[Leviatharan]

Tis unfortunate that we still haven't gotten a blue post discussing Unholy mechanics since we started our campaign to have Gargoyle fixed or removed.
Really MOP has done its best to deconstruct the themes of Unholy that Cata did its best to hold together. Granted, we're not spread in so many directions as magic damage prevention (among others) anymore... but Unholy's emphasis on diseases is all but dead, only present in the form of disease strength and extension, with no synergy between our diseases and either our pets or our shadow damage output. Hell, Frost and Blood have as much to do with their diseases as we do.

Well, there's always 5.1...

[Semani]

Well, there's always 5.1...

Except Blizzard doesn't like making major mechanical changes anymore in the middle of an expansion. I'm not holding my breath, 6.0 is likely the earliest that Unholy will get smoothed out, and given these last 2 expansions, I'm not expecting much even for 6.0. It really is unfortunate.

[Beefkow]

Mop is dead completely.. i can't wait to see how pvp goes, from my witness on the beta, it does not look BALANCED or COMPLETE at all, in fact the game just looks like the beta fresh from when it was released (otherwise, looks like the beta from couple months ago) there is still LOTS AND LOTS of work to be done. Im surprised that blizzard quoted that they're pretty busy, but guess what i see? a bunch of small small patches (maybe hotfixes here and there) nerfing classes that don't need nerfs (example: rogues/warrior/ret/dk).

I cannot wait to see pvp be dominated by casters, its very obvious that DOT cleave (a rbg combo filled with casters) is going to dominate again, no hope for melee.

Now to get on topic: I agree with Leviatharan, unholy is basically exactly like cata except ALOT worse, the dmg is pitiful, NS is not even close to being a threat,. Highest i've seen being absorbed from NS is 57k but that is with ALL cds popped and with the best pvp gear that you can ever obtain and the fact that is costs a death rune to use, yet the funny thing is that there are worthless talents that totally prevent us from doing our normal rotation (i thought talents are designed to improve our actions, not worsen them)

Example: Death Siphon

What is the difference between MOP and CATA? (for unholys) all i can say is bye bye desecration (which is what made SS to special) a worse NS, SS, PS, DC, pet, gargoyle.... i can go on forever and thus i end my post.

[Leviatharan]

Except Blizzard doesn't like making major mechanical changes anymore in the middle of an expansion. I'm not holding my breath, 6.0 is likely the earliest that Unholy will get smoothed out, and given these last 2 expansions, I'm not expecting much even for 6.0. It really is unfortunate.

A sentiment I would agree with, if they didn't spend the entirety of Wrath doing that one mechanic at a time, every patch. Yes I realize the devs disliked this philosophy in Cata, "opting to change as little as possible" which is why they completely rewrote the spec in one patch, but it's still proof of concept that it's not something they're adamant about avoiding.

[Reinhart]

DKs are gonna suck so much at pvp in MOP, it's unreal. You (and I say You because even though I played dk since the start of wotlk, I was aware enough of the coming situation as to leave this sinking boat a month ago and rerolled hunter) guys are gonna get GLOBALED in 3s due to the horrid squishiness and utter lack of CCs and escapes. Death Pact ? Ok, you just bought 2 seconds. Lichborne ? Yes, any team with working brains are just gonna let you stand there for 5 seconds and spam yourself with deathcoils, assuming ofc you managed to get 100 rp and did no damage during this time so to save the rp. Main tactic: pressure dk and force him to blow AMS, then CC healer and nuke dk. For no healer team, just nuke the dk.
Dks are gonna be so bad at pvp in MoP. Enhancement shaman kind of bad. You thought cata was bad ? You ain't seen nothing yet.

Have fun with PVE, though. GC hasn't ruined that department...yet.

Nah we will be fine in PvP probably UH will be the highest power house damage in BGs, and its all about adaptation. I love my DK right now over shitticlysm.

[drivertz]

Nah we will be fine in PvP probably UH will be the highest power house damage in BGs, and its all about adaptation. I love my DK right now over shitticlysm.

Hi there.

U dont think Frost will be better on RBG's than UH? I've been testing both specs and frost is always doin more damage. I know UH disease are OP atm but Howling Blast AOE is so good too..

Thanks

[Deleted]

Hi there.

U dont think Frost will be better on RBG's than UH? I've been testing both specs and frost is always doin more damage. I know UH disease are OP atm but Howling Blast AOE is so good too..

Thanks

I'm not really an expert when it comes to PvP but for me, it would seem like common sense that in most cases, spreading diseases as Unholy and then bursting a designated target is going to prove much more valuable to your team than spamming HB. I haven't really tested Unholy's burst in PvP compared to Frosts since the patch, but since most Frost DK's I've spoken to are running as DW Frost since they have to sacrifice a lot if they go 2h, it seems quite likely that Unholy is probably around about equal with Frost in most cases.

EDIT: I can't type today, holy crap.

[Deleted]

Will Howling Blast be dealing 80% to secondary targets when MoP is released? Because now tooltip says 50%, but I read that on Beta it was changed to 80% in recent (not sure about this) patch.

[Murdos]

I suppose that's easy enough to test.

Be right back, blastin' some target dummies.

Ayep, seems to be valid, just standing around it hit one dummy for 13k roughly, and the other two surrounding it for 10k.

[Bakis]

Hi people, I need help with a question aimed at you who played DK in WoD beta.
How is the fun factor of it compared to MoP. I'm not interested in its actual performace like, aoe, survivability, single target etc.


I know it is subjective but in terms of dumbing down, making it more complex, quality of life changes etc.
All 3 specs.

Cheers.

[Recom]

Wow, impressive necro you did there !

you realize this is the MoP beta thread from 2012 and not the WoD beta thread ?

[Bakis]

Lol, I obviously did not but I do now!

Thnx, will find a proper thread

Wonder how the hell it was on the the first page, didnt do search or any just popped into the DK forum.