why do we still use patchwerk as the main sim for dps

[drdood]

i was thinking about how sims work today and what the Watcher has been saying lately about it. and my main thought's where about why do we still use patchwerk as the main sim for charts and so on when patchwerk fights are not a mean of any raid tier, why dont we use the mean of bosses in x current tier and create sim profiles for them so we can see the best possiable dps for that tier ?

this is not a stab at any theory crafter i just want to know why do we still use this styem?

[Revi]

Because sims are for seeing potential max dps, that would be really hard to calculate if you always had to figure in the optimal movement, target switching etc. in a given fight, and how that affects the rotation and uptime.

I dunno, it could be done, but I don't see the point.

[Tehterokkar]

Because coding a "boss" is incredibly time consuming and difficult in SimC(and for it to work properly for all classes).

[Ratyrel]

Because sims are for seeing potential max dps, that would be really hard to calculate if you always had to figure in the optimal movement, target switching etc. in a given fight, and how that affects the rotation and uptime.

I dunno, it could be done, but I don't see the point.

The point is obviously to avoid people taking potential data obtained under non-real game world parameters and expecting it to show up in the "real game world" situation or basing arguments for changes to said situation on said potential data.

[Revi]

The point is obviously to avoid people taking potential data obtained under non-real game world parameters and expecting it to show up in the "real game world" situation or basing arguments for changes to said situation on said potential data.

Can't fix stupid by changing sims :| Would still get those same people that don't know what sims are wondering why they aren't seing the simmed dps.

[Siri]

It's not entirely easy simming other bosses accurately, that's the main reason.
You could also just sim a bunch of different versions of generic encounters and put 15 graphs next to each other showing how each spec does in a million different scenarios but that's not particularly helpful either. Just doing a sim of patchwerk and saying that that is what it is is arguably the most useful metric, people just have to treat it as what it is rather than the end-all be-all answer.

[Deleted]

Because sims are for seeing potential max dps, that would be really hard to calculate if you always had to figure in the optimal movement, target switching etc. in a given fight, and how that affects the rotation and uptime.

I dunno, it could be done, but I don't see the point.

Its not the real potential dps then if such encounters dont exists. Sims are only useful if class A is doing like 1% of damage of Class B, then the margin of error is so small that encounter doesnt matter.

[The Kao]

Patchwerk is neutral for DPS simulation and thus allows for comparison. That's pretty much it. Non-Patchwerk encounters are too specific and might favor certain classes or specs over others, while in a Patchwerk fight all DPS classes have the same conditions - just stand there and perform your rotation or priority system as perfectly as you can. This is not done to create an accurate picture of reality in diverse boss encounters, but to have a common, neutral ground for comparison.

[Siri]

Its not the real potential dps then if such encounters dont exists.

Real potential dps would be simming a whole fight consisting of aoe-ing a million+ targets but what use is that?

[lightofdawn]

as has been said a million times, its the only fight (or main fight rather) where every single dps, tank and healer doesnt need to move at all -or very little- and a sim is based to provide the highest possible numbers, which can only be achieved when 100% of the focus is on execution of the rotation

[Revi]

Its not the real potential dps then if such encounters dont exists.

Potential dps given 100% uptime and perfect execution. No one with any clue what sims are suggests you should reach that damage while handling mechanics that negatively impacts your output.

[drdood]

im not talkinga about making sims for boss to boss im mainly asking about why dont we have a sim that covers the main majority of bosses and not a sim that basicly shows us are best dps if we do this this and this without adds and the boss moving yes patchwerk is very good for showing us that but really when progressing you want to be the spec or build that can cover the most amount of bosses

[Revi]

im not talkinga about making sims for boss to boss im mainly asking about why dont we have a sim that covers the main majority of bosses and not a sim that basicly shows us are best dps if we do this this and this without adds and the boss moving yes patchwerk is very good for showing us that but really when progressing you want to be the spec or build that can cover the most amount of bosses

What would be the point of such a sim?

[drdood]

the point of the sim would be to show the best spec for a raid tier and not just a sim thats show a kind of ranking for dps

and also the type of sim im talking about would stop and show people who read the current sim charts and take the rankings as gospel

[skitzin]

Additionally, fights with lots of adds can given a false or misleading result for dps. This is because some classes are particularly strong in cleave damage or AoE damage which can make them look better than what they are. Thus patchwerk fights are used to provide a base line to work from in terms of what dps a particular class should be doing. Whilst not the final word on the matter, I do find some too quick to dismiss that data sims give us which isn't good either.

[Kazi]

im not talkinga about making sims for boss to boss im mainly asking about why dont we have a sim that covers the main majority of bosses and not a sim that basicly shows us are best dps if we do this this and this without adds and the boss moving yes patchwerk is very good for showing us that but really when progressing you want to be the spec or build that can cover the most amount of bosses

OP: Your question was answered..

...and only those who don't understand how SimCraft works think it's gospel. The rest of us understand that simcraft is a tool that helps find stat weights, everything else is there for that one purpose.

[Revi]

the point of the sim would be to show the best spec for a raid tier and not just a sim thats show a kind of ranking for dps

and also the type of sim im talking about would stop and show people who read the current sim charts and take the rankings as gospel

But that would still depend on 100% perfect execution, which means it'd never be representative of the real game. Let's say class X simmed higher than class Z, but in practice class Z was easy to play within 95% of perfect execution, and class X was incredibly difficult to play to even at 80%.

On the sim class X is better, in reality class Z is better for the vast majority.

I think you want something out of sims that they're not meant to do.

[drdood]

and what im really trying to point out and say is that we need 3 types of sims lets say single target sim aoe sim and a mix of aoe and single target and we take those 3 sims and from there we can work out the best builf spec class what ever for dps

[Revi]

and what im really trying to point out and say is that we need 3 types of sims lets say single target sim aoe sim and a mix of aoe and single target and we take those 3 sims and from there we can work out the best builf spec class what ever for dps

Can't we just use logs for that? They have the benefit of being accurate representations, because they're real.

[drdood]

true but in scenarios like a prepatch or now i think the styem i am proposing would show all of us the true dps for a patch and not just a base line