[MoP] Symbiosis

[Grapemask]

A spell damage ability with a cast time is the absolute worst idea for retribution paladins. I'll enjoy an ability that halts and then resets my swing timer, that I have a 50% scaling handicap on to begin with. It will be a dps loss to push that button even if I have the time in my rotation to push it.

Not that I'm expecting a "bonus spell" to be a huge dps increaase, but I'd like for it to be a button that I WANT to push. Ever. I'd rather have a utility cooldown like barkskin or whatever, because at least barkskin won't punish me for using it

[huth]

Of course it will. It's supposed to be utility, not a core rotational ability.

As for when you want to push it? Well, when you can't get into melee range. Like on Morchok or when both elite on Blackhorn are dead but the dragons still live.

[Elunedra]

A spell damage ability with a cast time is the absolute worst idea for retribution paladins. I'll enjoy an ability that halts and then resets my swing timer, that I have a 50% scaling handicap on to begin with. It will be a dps loss to push that button even if I have the time in my rotation to push it.

Not that I'm expecting a "bonus spell" to be a huge dps increaase, but I'd like for it to be a button that I WANT to push. Ever. I'd rather have a utility cooldown like barkskin or whatever, because at least barkskin won't punish me for using it

its meant tobe verry situaltional, and not a dps increase at all. look at mages & locks who are getting a healing spell

[Deleted]

It's very similar to feral getting death coil. It's not something we would use in a normal situation, but it's better than doing nothing when your target is out of range

[coldbear]

Dislike. This is too messy and hard to balance and use. I'd rather have had something that increased mobility or a sort-of-Vanish.

[Elunedra]

Dislike. This is too messy and hard to balance and use. I'd rather have had something that increased mobility or a sort-of-Vanish.

it doesnt matter if its hard to balance as it doenst require balancing, since its all utlity it gives harly any HPS or DPS and the survice abiltiy for bears its also verry little affected,

basicly its all useless but fun to have

[Deleted]

Im looking forward to this since im going to be playing arenas as resto druid with a mage. Iceblock will be very much welcome in my arsenal

[DarksideBeckons]

I want feral spirits with my druid. Self healing wolves side by side with my cat.

[noobadrood]

I really, really dislike this spell, specially since it's the only thing we're getting this xpac. It gives away signature spells in return for absolute shit (at least for balance, we don't get a single dps increase). We have talents to add "utility", WHY do we have to suffer our only new spell as an utility-cosmetic heap of dung? Why can't we get something we might actually want to use?
Adding the removal of insect swarm, balance is gonna be waaaaaaaaay worse than before.

[Boogieknight]

it doesnt matter if its hard to balance as it doenst require balancing, since its all utlity it gives harly any HPS or DPS and the survice abiltiy for bears its also verry little affected,

basicly its all useless but fun to have

I don't see having Wrath as "fun to have" for Retribution Paladins. Anything with a cast time, regardless of distance, is useless and a loss to that spec. It's one of the reasons why hardcasting Exorcism was pointless with Ret. Moonfire would have been the better spell to give Ret, not Wrath. Even Thorns, Entangling Roots, Faerie Fire, Swipe, or Stampeding Roar would have been better than Wrath. Ret gaining Wrath makes this ability near useless to ever cast on a Ret unless it's the only Paladin option you have and you want the Paladin ability. This will get tooled by the progression guilds into a pecking order like everything else resulting in specific targets for specific Druid specs. I agree the ability is kinda neat, but it's just not logical to introduce now.

[Deleted]

Im just happy that druids are finally getting some love. Lets hope that all the butthurt kids thats QQing
wont make them remove it before release.

Its insane that soooo many people are QQing about getting an ability for free that they wouldnt have otherwise...

Ungrateful bastards


Im looking forward to it alot

[Sabnock]

Im just happy that druids are finally getting some love.

Where do you see the love? I see laziness, so instead of giving an ability, we get this worthless horror.

Its insane that soooo many people are QQing about getting an ability for free that they wouldnt have otherwise...

The point is that we don't want something like that. We want real work and actually something useful as our 87 lvl ability, not this shit.

[Deleted]

Where do you see the love?

You kidding me? This'll be one of the most interesting spells in the game, just based on the sheer magnitude of it. We now have a potential of (what's the number?) 20 something new spells to play with.

---------- Post added 2012-05-06 at 05:02 PM ----------

The point is that we don't want something like that. We want real work and actually something useful as our 87 lvl ability, not this shit.

I'll be able to use Symbiosis with ease. And it'll be fun to work out what class links best on which boss and so on and so forth.

[Deleted]

Where do you see the love? I see laziness, so instead of giving an ability, we get this worthless horror.


The point is that we don't want something like that. We want real work and actually something useful as our 87 lvl ability, not this shit.

All i see in this post is worthless QQ. I feel bad for you for not seeing the awesomeness that is Symbiosis. /hug

[Sabnock]

You kidding me? This'll be one of the most interesting spells in the game, just based on the sheer magnitude of it. We now have a potential of (what's the number?) 20 something new spells to play with.

It's a lame copypaste of other abilities but nerfed, initially it was made to have the cd we need (like a defensive one), the initial version provide the same problem of Dark intent without the utility of this spell and worst you can't give it on what you want but you have to think from a raid perspective, so if a tank gets something good, you have to link with him.
Meanwhile in solo you are still broken.
Now it's simply something that is useless, expecially for boomkins, it's a clunky design for something we don't need like this.

Sure a marvellous spell! ...please...

I'll be able to use Symbiosis with ease. And it'll be fun to work out what class links best on which boss and so on and so forth.

Nonsense, as I said the choice is not up to you, but even if you could chose the choices we have are terrible and worthless so...

All i see in this post is worthless QQ. I feel bad for you for not seeing the awesomeness that is Symbiosis. /hug

You can try to actually read it, and you will see a bunch of argument on why it's stupid and lame.
We know from the beginning that it will be istant nerfed (and so happen), and if you look closely every single exchanged ability you will understand that no one will get something useful.
/wakarimas please

[Deleted]

It's a lame copypaste of other abilities but nerfed, initially it was made to have the cd we need (like a defensive one), the initial version provide the same problem of Dark intent without the utility of this spell and worst you can't give it on what you want but you have to think from a raid perspective, so if a tank gets something good, you have to link with him.
Meanwhile in solo you are still broken.
Now it's simply something that is useless, expecially for boomkins, it's a clunky design for something we don't need like this.

Sure a marvellous spell! ...please...

Nonsense, as I said the choice is not up to you, but even if you could chose the choices we have are terrible and worthless so...


You can try to actually read it, and you will see a bunch of argument on why it's stupid and lame.
We know from the beginning that it will be istant nerfed (and so happen), and if you look closely every single exchanged ability you will understand that no one will get something useful.
/wakarimas please

Such a bitter person :/

[Sabnock]

Such a bitter person :/

It's better to be more realistic, because even if It's cool puking rainbow mounting a unicorn, it is not a good way to deal with the situation, I guess.

[Generationwhy]

Such a bitter person :/

No, just a realistic person. You guys can jump for joy over something "fun." The "fun" factor will wear off after about a day. Then you'll realize all we got was a new MOP edition of Wild Mushrooms and we're stuck with a mostly useless spell that is "cool."

Before you even take into account what class to use it on, you have to look at the fact that it's 100% useless solo, very likely to be useless in a 5 man/10man (if you don't have anyone of a certain class in your group/raid).

Additionally, as much empahsis as they've put on the "active mitigation" model. Every GC is important for generating rage first and foremost.

With boneshield, the 10% reduction is so weak with the nerfed charges, I wouldn't be surprised to see parses/sims showing that you're probably going to be better off not using it when in combat and taking damage, and instead, hitting mangle (to generate rage), refreshing thrash, lacerate, or FF. Boneshield also negates use of Feint. As boneshield has 3 charges and does the same DR from all sources.

Also, it's going to be much more useful to use only after you have SD up (otherwise the first 3 swings will probably take all 3 charges). Basically, you'll have to be in a situation where you don't need to do any of those (which is going to be extremely rare). If symbiosis were taken off the GC it would be pretty useful though.

The only other abilities you'd even remotely might want to use as a tank (due it triggering a GC) are consecration and frost trap.

Consecration has the same weakness as Boneshield (triggering a GC). It's so weak it's a waste if you are already in combat with a mob on you to tank. It's only worthwhile if you drop it when you have nothing to do at the moment and you need to pick up adds at one spot...but need to move to another spot...Otherwise you are much better off hitting Thrash or Swipe.

Frost trap is only really helpful if you're with a lazy pug hunter that won't drop their own if you need it.

Compare the other 87 abilities (tanks or otherwise) get. This is an absolute joke compared to the DK or Warrior abilities.

Also, we pretty much have group/raid with a DK or Rogue for it to be useful.

[Deleted]

No, just a realistic person. You guys can jump for joy over something "fun." The "fun" factor will wear off after about a day. Then you'll realize all we got was a new MOP edition of Wild Mushrooms and we're stuck with a mostly useless spell that is "cool."

Before you even take into account what class to use it on, you have to look at the fact that it's 100% useless solo, very likely to be useless in a 5 man/10man (if you don't have anyone of a certain class in your group/raid).

Additionally, as much empahsis as they've put on the "active mitigation" model. Every GC is important for generating rage first and foremost.

With boneshield, the 10% reduction is so weak with the nerfed charges, I wouldn't be surprised to see parses/sims showing that you're probably going to be better off not using it when in combat and taking damage, and instead, hitting mangle (to generate rage), refreshing thrash, lacerate, or FF.

Also, it's going to be much more useful to use only after you have SD up (otherwise the first 3 swings will probably take all 3 charges). Basically, you'll have to be in a situation where you don't need to do any of those (which is going to be extremely rare).

The only other abilities you'd even remotely might want to use as a tank (due it triggering a GC) are consecration and frost trap.

Consecration has the same weakness as Boneshield (triggering a GC). It's so weak it's a waste if you are already in combat with a mob on you to tank. It's only worthwhile if you drop it when you have nothing to do at the moment and you need to pick up adds at one spot...but need to move to another spot...Otherwise you are much better off hitting Thrash or Swipe.

Frost trap is only really helpful if you're with a lazy pug hunter that won't drop their own if you need it.

Compare the other 87 abilities (tanks or otherwise) get. This is an absolute joke compared to the DK or Warrior abilities.

Im pretty happy about being able to ice block or icebound fortitude depending (among other talents) on which mates
i will be doing arenas with. Its usefulness in dungeons and raids doesnt interest me since i dont engage in those things anyways

[Generationwhy]

Im pretty happy about being able to ice block or icebound fortitude depending (among other talents) on which mates
i will be doing arenas with. Its usefulness in dungeons and raids doesnt interest me since i dont engage in those things anyways

Oh cool, because you play a different spec and only pvp it negates everything that people have pointed about about how weak an ability it is...thanks for the contribution. The Arena Junkies forum is that way ----->.