[Demo Tanking] All is not lost!

[Nicola]

We did in fact stack stam in vanilla, most of the lock gear had it on it. Life Tap sucked a lot of it for very little return, I do miss the SM-Ruin/ Demo-Sac (pre fix) days.

We also tanked Twin Emperors back in vanilla.


To remain in topic, I believe they should keep tanking away from us at all. I can see it now, they bring us just to tank and provide raid wide Dark Intent and 1 per 25 man. 10 mans? they don't have room for a lock tank so good luck there.

Yeah, cuz warlocks don't do high enough dps and bring enough utility to actually dps or bring more then 1 warlock...
What you just said is bullshit.

[Jaofindel]

My only hope now, rests in the petless affliction...

[Baval2]

we are warlocks, dont say the lore doesnt support it. The whole reason we ARE warlocks is some prissy jerk in mage school said "no you cant cast a fire spell with that much heat, you cant summon and control demons, you cant use shadow magic without being corrupted" and we said TO HELL I CANT and did it anyway. Currently, no known warlock wants to tank, however no known warlock turns into demons either. We are the next heros, and if my warlock (who has been demonology since the day i rolled him and is my main and always will be) wants to push the sissy paladin aside and say "let me show you how its done" and punch the raid boss in the face, NO ONE is going to tell him he cant (and live long anyway)

We dominate demons who would glady rip our faces off with the sheer force of our will alone, and if you dont believe that have a listen to the voidwalker or felguard/doomguard sometime. We turn ourselves into demons on a regular basis and then, unlike Illidan, turn back on a whim. A gnome summoned an Eradar in about 8 seconds of casting time, without a sacrifice or anything similar. True he wasnt powerful enough to control it fully, but he dragged it against its will to us without even trying. Give us the ability to change spirit into a tanking stat and it would fit our lore perfectly, were not tanking out of brute strength or agility or heavy armor, were tanking on unholy gifts weve stolen for ourselves and pure raw will to see our enemies dead before us. We dont tank to protect our pawns, we tank because the very existence of our enemy is such an outrage that we personally want to look him in the eyes as his he dies.

And if that doesnt sound like a warlocks mentality to you, then youve rolled the wrong class

[Count Zero]

Players chose to play warlocks with full knowledge of the inability to be a dedicated tank.
If you were always wishing for something the class was not then you were playing the wrong class.

"Please present the evidence supporting this 'Fact'.
It is an opinion and nothing more"

I've played my Warlock for nearly five years straight now. When I rolled it, I was not familiar with the terms "dps" or "tank" or the roles those terms represent, as WoW was/is my very first MMO.

So ridiculous that you blast someone for making generalizations unsupported by evidence, then you go and do the same thing.

[Inactivity]

"Please present the evidence supporting this 'Fact'.
It is an opinion and nothing more"

I've played my Warlock for nearly five years straight now. When I rolled it, I was not familiar with the terms "dps" or "tank" or the roles those terms represent, as WoW was/is my very first MMO.

So ridiculous that you blast someone for making generalizations unsupported by evidence, then you go and do the same thing.

Agreed again. +2.

[Joodoc]

And that quoted post telling anyone who does not like warlock tanking to GTFO was not ?
I have seen hardly any arguments for warlock tanking which were not based on it being cool, as it being a solution to the tank shortage, as it being a reason to bring people back to playing their warlocks.
None of those offer any good reason. At least by picking fault with genuine flaws both in the design and in the presumed need for it we are trying to present good reasons for our view.
I see little to no such effort from the other side.

Additional tank roles are not necessary, being a community problem only.
Being cool does not justify inclusion, especially as it has the potential to be horribly broken.
I am fine with balanced, but as that glyph it was not and I can't see it being so either.
Either a dedicated tanking spec or no dedicated tank capability at all.



Please present the evidence supporting this "Fact".
It is an opinion and nothing more.
Polls can never be taken as accurate.

Players chose to play warlocks with full knowledge of the inability to be a dedicated tank.
If you were always wishing for something the class was not then you were playing the wrong class.

I never said GTFO, I simply said if you don't want to do it nobody is forcing you

also every one of your arguements can be negated jsut liek you negated those, and those aren't even all the arguements. we show how it is valid, how it coudl be solved, how the brokenness can be fixed.

if you say additional tank roles aren't necessary, why monk tank? if cool isn't matter why ANY of the new changes, why not leave it like it was?

[Dimm]

To the QQers wanting thier lore intacted and thier class left alone. Just because it might be added doesn't mean you will have to take part in it. It's a glyph. Which means Demo will still be a DPS spec so long as you don't use this glyph. Your not losing anything but we're gaining something. Please support this and help make our class even more versitile.

[LordKain]

Warlock = range dps.

Warlock are not tanks.

This "fix" makes me a happy camper.

You want to tank, play a tank class and quit your whining.

[Inactivity]

Warlock = range dps...

You want to tank, play a tank class and quit your whining.

As has been said many times... most people started this class/game with no clue what the hell tank/heal/DPS meant.

And there's no such thing as a "tank class" ... warrior DPS would like to differ.

And 3 equally shitty ranged DPS specs is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo interesting

Why not play a mage then?

[capitano666]

Oh nice, the glyph got changed so that now you have a limited tanking capabilities without gimping your dps...I wish we had similar glyphs for other specs too :P

[LordKain]

As has been said many times... most people started this class/game with no clue what the hell tank/heal/DPS meant.

And there's no such thing as a "tank class" ... warrior DPS would like to differ.

And 3 equally shitty ranged DPS specs is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo interesting

Why not play a mage then?

And whose fault is that? Coming from Everquest I knew full well that Warlocks were a ranged dps class just like the Necromancer. If you were clueless to that fact, the fault is yours!

Warlock = Range dps.

[Inactivity]

And whose fault is that? Coming from Everquest I knew full well that Warlocks were a ranged dps class just like the Necromancer. If you were clueless to that fact, the fault is yours!

Because not everyone played 30 MMO's for their lives prior to joining this new game, especially because WoW really mainstreamed MMO's from the fringe-type of player that played Everquest. So not everyone knew about MMOs and how they worked, and Blizzard should be 1) aware of that, and 2) willing to adopt positive changes.

Not listening to old-school-Luddites assigning "fault"

[capitano666]

As has been said many times... most people started this class/game with no clue what the hell tank/heal/DPS meant.

Lol when I started playing I used to hand around with a melee dps sword and a firestone.
And it was fun!

---------- Post added 2012-03-29 at 05:54 PM ----------

And whose fault is that? Coming from Everquest I knew full well that Warlocks were a ranged dps class just like the Necromancer. If you were clueless to that fact, the fault is yours!

Warlock = Range dps.

You'd be surprised to know that locks used to wear leather in alpha

[Count Zero]

I should deuce out on all these threads before I get myself banned for making some generalizations about the type of person who is glad that something that wouldn't affect them won't happen for others who wanted it

---------- Post added 2012-03-29 at 04:00 PM ----------

Warlock = Range dps.

And what about Ghostcrawler's assertion that he wants Demo Locks to have the option to emergency offtank as well as a DPS Warrior / Feral Druid / DK who switches presences/stances/forms/weapons ?

You can say whatever you want, present your opinions as facts all day long, but you are not the one who decides what Warlocks are or aren't, in-game or in lore. Both change, at Blizzard's whim.

[RaoBurning]

we are warlocks, don't say the lore doesn't support it. The whole reason we ARE warlocks is some prissy jerk in mage school said "no you cant cast a fire spell with that much heat, you cant summon and control demons, you cant use shadow magic without being corrupted" and we said TO HELL I CANT and did it anyway. Currently, no known warlock wants to tank, however no known warlock turns into demons either. We are the next heroes, and if my warlock (who has been demonology since the day i rolled him and is my main and always will be) wants to push the sissy paladin aside and say "let me show you how its done" and punch the raid boss in the face, NO ONE is going to tell him he cant (and live long anyway)

We dominate demons who would gladly rip our faces off with the sheer force of our will alone, and if you don't believe that have a listen to the voidwalker or felguard/doomguard sometime. We turn ourselves into demons on a regular basis and then, unlike Illidan, turn back on a whim. A gnome summoned an Eradar in about 8 seconds of casting time, without a sacrifice or anything similar. True he wasn't powerful enough to control it fully, but he dragged it against its will to us without even trying. Give us the ability to change spirit into a tanking stat and it would fit our lore perfectly, were not tanking out of brute strength or agility or heavy armor, were tanking on unholy gifts we've stolen for ourselves and pure raw will to see our enemies dead before us. We don't tank to protect our pawns, we tank because the very existence of our enemy is such an outrage that we personally want to look him in the eyes as his he dies.

And if that doesn't sound like a warlocks mentality to you, then you've rolled the wrong class

I wish this would fit into my quote box.

[missbrooklyn25]

It seems like their nerfing meta's armor and chance to be crit is lowered. Meh..Still hoping for the best and that we will get what we want, but it's not looking good=/

[Count Zero]

I wasn't afraid of it, I was against having my main spec being shat on.

Pretty much sums up my view. Also, Meta-tanking was never removed, it never existed in the first place, and you never even had it when it was inadvertently viable on Beta, by and large through some very broken numbering. As for Demo-DPS getting nerfed to shit, so what? We're not even at PTR stage yet where the real numbers actually start to get serious adjustments. All I've seen so far is a bit of levelling off of the Meta/Caster see-saw of damage and Demonic Slash starting to actually look interesting with it's charges and cooldown instead of being a spammable instant - these are changes I actually welcome, afterall they're responses to concerns and suggestions I had in the first place.

1 - How would the addition of Demo tanking, in and of itself, "shat" on Demo dps ??

2 - I don't understand how you can say Demo tanking was only viable because of bugged/broken numbers, but then go on to say that numbers will be adjusted regarding Demo dps. Demo tanking's OPness could have been adjusted down to a reasonable level, just as Demo's dps numbers can be adjusted up.

The point is that even though it was clearly way overpowered and imbalanced, what we saw on the beta proved they could give Demo the full tank toolkit and survivability. Adjusting down their damage reduction, perhaps making some of their survivability pet-dependent so controlling / killing their pets would prevent them from being too OP in pvp, etc, etc ... all things that could have happened, without touching Demo dps.

[Inactivity]

Oh and last thing I thought of with Ghostcrawler:

"We want different specs to roll on different gears" - my ass. Good excuse, I almost had you bought long enough to repost on "spirit = dodge" suggestions (shows how a community can come up with ideas even with the stupidest adversary).

Then I realized...

Cloth Spirit/Int = Healer DPS Priest
Leather Spirit/Int = Healer and DPS Druid
Mail Spirit/Int = Healer and DPS Shaman

In particular, note how both healer and DPS priests can poach from warlock gear (gear is "shared" on a one-way street), but we don't get access to their gear pool in return. Hence while their itemization includes a 410 neckpiece, we're stuck with a 391.

[edit] And that's just armor.

We have weapons shared between tanks and DPS. Rings are shared between tanks and DPS (poached either way). Obviously all this is still shared between healers and DPS. Ranged DPS hunters and Melee DPS shamans use agility mail.

Your precious paladins are the only ones who don't have to share loot.

[Alphamage]

I personally believe it is a stupid idea. I guess all Warlocks will try it for fun but cmon. What will it be next? Warrior Healers? Why not Priest Tanks with shields and absorbs?
I believe that every class should do what it should. Mages, Rogues, Warlocks, Hunters are the pure dps classes of WoW. Why mess things like that? The idea of a Warlock transforming when things go wrong(Tank dies) in a dungeon and he holds the mobs or boss for a while till the rest of the dps finish it off is cool. But a Warlock replacing a Tank for a whole instance? I dont want to see it...

[Ealyssa]

Warlocks are not meant to be tanks. [...]They're seen as fragile, but extremely powerful ranged casters

Mmmh no, not at all or only in your imagination. That's mage definition, not warlocks.

Historically, warlocks felt tankier than other casters and could even off-tank some encounters. We have made an effort in Mists to recapture some of that flavor.

Warlock were ALWAYS the bulckier of all the casters in the lore of warcraft.