NE rogue with Subterfuge?

[Vereesa]

It just occurred to me, that if the talents Subterfuge and Preparation stay as they are until the release of MoP, Night Elf rogues will essentially become invisible! Here's how:

[for reference, Subterfuge is the tier 1 rogue talent]

1. Open normally out of Stealth as you would, after the 3 initial seconds of Subterfuge, use a glyphed vanish
2. You're now invisible for 5 seconds (because of the vanish glyph) and will remain invisible for 3 seconds after stealth breaks.
3. Use Prep. to reset your Vanish and repeat the above
4. Shadowmeld for an additional 3 seconds of Subterfuge stealth

What are your opinions on this?

[Srg56]

It just occurred to me, that if the talents Subterfuge and Preparation stay as they are until the release of MoP, Night Elf rogues will essentially become invisible! Here's how:

[for reference, Subterfuge is the tier 1 rogue talent]

1. Open normally out of Stealth as you would, after the 3 initial seconds of Subterfuge, use a glyphed vanish
2. You're now invisible for 5 seconds (because of the vanish glyph) and will remain invisible for 3 seconds after stealth breaks.
3. Use Prep. to reset your Vanish and repeat the above
4. Shadowmeld for an additional 3 seconds of Subterfuge stealth

What are your opinions on this?

(this ability has a 10 second cooldown)

It's just going to happen. In a World Of Warcraft where there was no implementation of arenas, sure, that could fly. As it is now? No chance in hell. The Pvp/arena forums are aleready a circus, and they are planning on adding yet another class to the game. You wouldn't wanna be a class developer working for blizzard now. Mr. Street looked at blizzcon as if he hadn't slept peoperly in months.

[Mazius]

What are your opinions on this?

And this helps you how?
P.S. Unless they'll add nuclear fart as side vanish effect i can't really understand how your PvP opponents gonna die. And if you don't know it yet, you still can detect and moreover do damage to rogue in stealth and vanish (even glyphed).

[Vereesa]

And this helps you how?
P.S. Unless they'll add nuclear fart as side vanish effect i can't really understand how your PvP opponents gonna die. And if you don't know it yet, you still can detect and moreover do damage to rogue in stealth and vanish (even glyphed).

Most rogues prefer to hit enemies from the back. If you're behind someone, they have a significantly reduced chance to see you.

[Mazius]

Most rogues prefer to hit enemies from the back. If you're behind someone, they have a significantly reduced chance to see you.

You realise, that when character being attacked in WoW it automatically picks up attacker as target, right?
Not to mention easy /targetenemyplayer macro command.

[Vereesa]

You realise, that when character being attacked in WoW it automatically picks up attacker as target, right?
Not to mention easy /targetenemyplayer macro command.

Except that you can't target an invisible, stealthed unit. (who's behind you, obviously)

[Mazius]

Except that you can't target an invisible, stealthed unit. (who's behind you, obviously)

Erm, what? You can perfectly target stealthed unit as soon as you detected it. And you know detection angle is really wide, not to mention that you can detect even stealthed units behind your back, just ask a fellow rogue to do some detect checks and see it yourself.

All in all, 3 sec subterfuge, then 3 more sec of subterfuge (unless you want to spend whole vanish duration in stealth, glyph of vanish can't help you if you actually attacking someone), then vanish after prep (wise using of 5 min cd) and 3 more sec of subterfuge. You really mean to kill PvP target within these 9 sec? Is your aim to gank opposite faction "kindergarten"?

It is possible to stay "stealthed" and use special attacks, which required stealth, as you described it, but it has no practical use.

[Evolixe]

You cannot spot stealthed units that are behind you.
So yes, we will be able to attack people without being targetted or seen at all.

@OP

I just think well see an inner cooldown on it :P Probebly not a long one, but certainly one.

[akteliae]

You cannot spot stealthed units that are behind you.
So yes, we will be able to attack people without being targetted or seen at all.

You can due to lag.
And honestly, the benefit of blowing cooldowns to remain in-stealth just to do it is...really small.

[Deleted]

You can stay invisible and do what exactly? you can only get 9 sec of invisible attacking time so unless you kill them in 9 secs you just stealth off and try again in 5 mins??

[Satori]

I think I'll hit him with an AoE ability to break stealth.

Pretty insteresting for PvE though, essentially a Shadow Dance for every rogue spec.

[Deleted]

I think I'll hit him with an AoE ability to break stealth.

Pretty insteresting for PvE though, essentially a Shadow Dance for every rogue spec.

How you gonna do that when stealth does not break on inc dmg or outgoing dmg? How about reading the abilitys tooltip.

[Evolixe]

You can due to lag.
And honestly, the benefit of blowing cooldowns to remain in-stealth just to do it is...really small.

I never said you should blow vanish just for that

Its rather pointless to do so, you won't kill anyone with it unless they are in pve gear.

[Pikapika]

That's assuming Shadowmeld works with Subterfuge. As of now it doesn't activate things that specifically activate on stealth, like Overkill or Master of Subtlety.

[Evolixe]

That's assuming Shadowmeld works with Subterfuge. As of now it doesn't activate things that specifically activate on stealth, like Overkill or Master of Subtlety.

Shadowmeld instantly drops combat, you can always get in stealth unless you use it at a completely retarded moment.

[Stealthbomb]

Well for those complaining that been in stealth wont change much. It means we can open up with a cheapshot then go into a nice ambush and finish off with a garrote in that 3 seconds if your haste is good enough, not done any math on this. But i feel that shadow dance will feel not as nice now with this.

[Evolixe]

Well for those complaining that been in stealth wont change much. It means we can open up with a cheapshot then go into a nice ambush and finish off with a garrote in that 3 seconds if your haste is good enough, not done any math on this. But i feel that shadow dance will feel not as nice now with this.

I totally forgot that. D:

I still think that if we get find weakness as spec ability though, we wouldn't want to drop Dance.

[akteliae]

Well for those complaining that been in stealth wont change much. It means we can open up with a cheapshot then go into a nice ambush and finish off with a garrote in that 3 seconds if your haste is good enough, not done any math on this. But i feel that shadow dance will feel not as nice now with this.

That wouldn't reduce the value of dance at all. Dance is still extremely powerful for peels and burst.

[Ralamus]

It just occurred to me, that if the talents Subterfuge and Preparation stay as they are until the release of MoP, Night Elf rogues will essentially become invisible! Here's how:

[for reference, Subterfuge is the tier 1 rogue talent]

1. Open normally out of Stealth as you would, after the 3 initial seconds of Subterfuge, use a glyphed vanish
2. You're now invisible for 5 seconds (because of the vanish glyph) and will remain invisible for 3 seconds after stealth breaks.
3. Use Prep. to reset your Vanish and repeat the above
4. Shadowmeld for an additional 3 seconds of Subterfuge stealth

What are your opinions on this?

sounds like you should laugh at him for using all those consecutively

[akteliae]

sounds like you should laugh at him for using all those consecutively

Stealth macros as useless as Swifty's macros incoming!