CLCRet Priority?

[-Skye]

So i've asked this question many times in many different places and I always get different answers, all I want is a clear answer to which CLCRet priority is optimal right now, currently I'm using;

inqa inqrhp cs inqrdp tvdp jhp exoud exo tvhp how hw

I've had a few people tell me it's wrong and these few people show me theirs and they are all using different ones, any help is appreciated, thanks.

[Requital]

So i've asked this question many times in many different places and I always get different answers, all I want is a clear answer to which CLCRet priority is optimal right now, currently I'm using;

inqa inqrhp cs inqrdp tvdp jhp exoud exo tvhp how hw

I've had a few people tell me it's wrong and these few people show me theirs and they are all using different ones, any help is appreciated, thanks.

I'd personally move judgement up since it's generating HP you don't want it so far back.

[Deleted]

personally i'd say remove the addon and learn how to play;D

[Shockzor]

Hah, that addon is used by many top players, no need to learn to play.

[Jerion]

I'm using inqa inqrhp cs jhp inqrdp exoud tvdp exo tvhp how j hw cons

[Kenjji]

Why would you prioritize JHP over a TVDP, say you got a DP prooc and use judgement instead of using the DP for TV and it proocs another DP, you're completely wasting the first prooc.

[-Skye]

Still waiting for a clear answer Bump please and @ Dreadan I find it much easier to focus during a raid if I'm staring at the CLCRet box and pushing all the keybinds I know rather than thinking about what to do next, I don't follow it religiously but it's a great help and I know many 8/8HC'ers who use it who by the wya all use different strings so I'm very lost

[Fmp]

So i've asked this question many times in many different places and I always get different answers, all I want is a clear answer to which CLCRet priority is optimal right now

Maybe there is no clear answear?

[Twotonsteak]

personally i'd say remove the addon and learn how to play;D

The Ret priority list at 85 is so convoluted thank's to the random nature of Holy Power generation, that you need SOMETHING to track proc's. That's why Blizzard toned it back in the revision they set-out for MoP. Actually early works done over on elitistjerks.com suggest that we might actually go back to a static, or mostly static, rotation.

OP, what follows is the "priority" section borrowed from the EJ guide, posted originally by Exemplar.

Single Target



The Ret paladin "rotation" shares something with Wrath - it is priority based. The priority for single-target is one of the following:
Inq > CS > HoW > Exo > TV > J > HW > Cons
Inq > CS > TV > HoW > Exo > J > HW > Cons

Use the sequence which is more advantageous for your own gear. Both spreadsheets presently recommend the first for at least high end gear sets.

Against Undead/Demons the positions of HoW and Exo swap, providing:
Inq > CS > TV > Exo > HoW > J > HW > Cons, or
Inq > CS > Exo > HoW > TV > J > HW > Cons

The fact that Exorcism auto-crits when used on Undead or Demons and is faster scaling (lesser coefficient modified by large +% bonus, effectively granting higher overall coefficient) causes it to pull ahead of HoW in that scenario.

In both scenarios you do not perform a CS if you have 3 HP, however if you have 2 or less HP and a DivPurp proc you would use the CS before the free TV.

Inq increases Holy Damage when it is up. Modeling and testing shows to begin expecting to refresh at 3 seconds before it ends. You will rarely have Inq expire and those occasions when it does it should only be missing for 2-3 seconds.

In melee range:
Never, ever cast Exo - only use Exo when it is instant from an AoW proc. If AoW has not procced, then Exo has a cast time, mana cost, and vastly reduced damage. Remember during a cast you stop and reset all autoattacks.

If out of melee range (phase transition/funny-business):
Judge if you can. Without AoW Exo drops below Judge. If Judge is on CD, spam cast Exo as mana permits. Do not overcommit on Exo mana usage - ensure you have sufficient mana to Judge for mana regen and CS as soon as you reach target. This is a good time to use Divine Plea to regen sufficient mana for a few extra Exo or to ensure sufficient mana to Judge/CS on fight resumption.


[top]Multiple Target



The AoE rotation is rather similar to single-target, simply replace Crusader Strike with Divine Storm. The rest of the priority stays the same. With Holy Wrath fixed to meteor properly, at 3 targets you should begin using Consecration over HW.

Redcape's modeling shows you should only swap to AoE rotation at 5 or more targets. A more recent test here receives the same results in 4.0.6. 4.1 likely drops this down to 4 targets. If DS successfully hits 4 targets it generates HP, making up the large gap it has had in the past. At hit/expertise cap for Bosses you should have only a slim chance to be parried by an 86/87 (most adds are not skulls), even if they are facing you.
4.2 - My own analysis shows 4 targets is the breakpoint. At 4 targets DS will generate HP, so you do not lose any HP generation. Additionally at 4 targets the additional procs from SoR surpass Censure ticks and the extra SoC procs which are generated from SoT. Thus swapping seals will produce more overall DPS, though less DPS on a single target - if damaging the boss remains the utmost factor it can still be superior to keep SoT running during AOE-cleave phases.


[top]Zealotry



Zealotry provides a special circumstance. During Zealotry all CS earn 3 HP. Your rotation will become CS, TV, Filler, or CS, Filler, TV, as we still use 2 fillers between CS.

With current values for HoW and Exo they may be used over a CS or TV during Zealotry (see priorities above). Continue to follow your core priority sequence in and out of cooldowns. Zealotry does not alter your priority sequence, it just gives you more TV to socket in there.

Try to avoid use of Zealotry during AOE-cleave phases. Divine Storm does not produce 3 HP, so you would lose the benefit of this CD or lose the benefit of proper AOE attacks against available targets.

[Simca]

That information is very out of date, unfortunately. In the lack of any knowledgeable Ret giving their priority, I will give it a shot.

@TwoTonSteak: TV surpasses HoW/Exo in all relevant gear levels, to my knowledge. Also, Exo is universally better than HoW iirc. Judgement's priority should be much higher since it is basically a weaker CS now.

This is the current SimulationCraft priority for Ret's BiS profile. While probably not perfect, it is a good place to start. It has Judgement close to CS, Exo above HoW, TV above Exo/HW, etc.

actions+=/crusader_strike,if=holy_power<3
actions+=/judgement,if=buff.zealotry.down&holy_power<3
actions+=/inquisition,if=(buff.inquisition.down|buff.inquisition.remains<=2)&(holy_power>=3|buff.divine_purpose.react)
actions+=/templars_verdict,if=buff.divine_purpose.react
actions+=/templars_verdict,if=holy_power=3
actions+=/exorcism,if=buff.the_art_of_war.react
actions+=/hammer_of_wrath
actions+=/judgement,if=set_bonus.tier13_2pc_melee&buff.zealotry.up&holy_power<3
actions+=/wait,sec=0.1,if=cooldown.crusader_strike.remains<0.2&cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>0
actions+=/holy_wrath
actions+=/consecration,not_flying=1,if=mana>16000
actions+=/divine_plea

Basically,
CS > JHP > Inq > TV > Exo > HoW > J > HW > Cons > Divine Plea

This is true with a 2 second Inquisition refresh timer and a 0.2 sec delay on Holy Wrath and Consecration (none on Judgement of course).

In CLCRet-speak, I THINK this would be:
cs jhp inqa inqrhp inqrdp tvdp tvhp exoud exo how j hw cons

[Jerion]

In the lack of any knowledgeable Ret giving their priority, I will give it a shot.

I like that assumption that people like Requital or myself who are 8/8h are not knowledgeable...

On a different note, one of my biggest complaints with ret right now is the fact that there is no good central source of information. EJ could be good if the person doing the ret threads didn't suck and spread misinformation, stop people from having discussions on bis gear, and generally leave out of date info up there. Retpaladin.com is basically dead. Unfortunately raidingretribution.net didn't take off the way I hoped it would. So we're left with scrounging together bits and pieces of information from random mmo-champ threads and doing our own theorycrafting. (Thank you to those top rets who do contribute here by the way.) That said, Kisko from <Fallen> put together a nice little advanced guide at http://fallen.stonemaul.net/showthre...00-Retribution

[Requital]

I like that assumption that people like Requital or myself who are 8/8h are not knowledgeable...

On a different note, one of my biggest complaints with ret right now is the fact that there is no good central source of information. EJ could be good if the person doing the ret threads didn't suck and spread misinformation, stop people from having discussions on bis gear, and generally leave out of date info up there. Retpaladin.com is basically dead. Unfortunately raidingretribution.net didn't take off the way I hoped it would. So we're left with scrounging together bits and pieces of information from random mmo-champ threads and doing our own theorycrafting. (Thank you to those top rets who do contribute here by the way.) That said, Kisko from <Fallen> put together a nice little advanced guide at http://fallen.stonemaul.net/showthre...00-Retribution

Many Ret sources have died out because the majority of the theory-crafting Ret community has quit, There are a number of people that still play but have no reason to bust their ass provide all the data that is needed just to have some mediocre players troll them on MMO forums. EJ Ret community died when it became basically a forum jail where conversations were restricted to evidence and proof only no opinions allowed.

There have been a number of sites dedicated to Ret Paladins but they generally slowly die out there are a ton of blogs and small information sites as well.

It just comes down to that, When people don't appreciate the effort put forth by the theory crafters they just quit helping plain and simple. I use to post all the damn time but these forums have turned into protect the troll and ban the informative people that don't treat those trolls with the respect that they sure do not deserve.

I may update my site and push to be more up to date on it for Ret in MoP depending on how things go.

[Simca]

I like that assumption that people like Requital or myself who are 8/8h are not knowledgeable...

To be honest I'd never seen you around (sorry on that) and Requital only made a small comment on the placement of Judgement, which was fine but there were still things wrong with the OP's posted priority.

I'm curious what SimulationCraft thinks of your priority vs its own. There BiS profiles are a good source of information, but they're not even close to perfect. I'm not adept at SimulationCraft syntax, but I'll give it a shot.

Edit: There was a 2.1 DPS loss using your priority over SimulationCraft's (49,295.3 DPS vs 49,293.2 DPS). The margin of error (50000 runs) was 13.29 DPS, so I'm pretty sure the priorities are so close that it doesn't matter.

[Sinister Knight]

Just a quick question, with this newer prio on Judgement, should we be Glyphing Judge instead of Exo, or still Exo Glyph? Asking due to the notoriously out of date ret guides, thanks!

[Simca]

Exo - The Judgement glyph is almost never used.

[Kinmaul]

Many Ret sources have died out because the majority of the theory-crafting Ret community has quit, There are a number of people that still play but have no reason to bust their ass provide all the data that is needed just to have some mediocre players troll them on MMO forums. EJ Ret community died when it became basically a forum jail where conversations were restricted to evidence and proof only no opinions allowed.

This nugget of logic confuses me. First you say good people don't post on MMO champ because crappy players troll them with opinions, then bash EJ for forcing people to provide evidence and proof instead of just spouting off what they "think" is the correct way to play the class.

I'd say the biggest reason the Ret community has died down is because there hasn't been a major change to the spec since the balance patch back in bwd/bot where mastery was overhauled. There was a flurry of discussion as stat weights were recalculated and then things got quiet again. We get little bursts of new discussion when new content comes out and people debate trinkets and proc weapons, but I don't see what else there is really to talk about.