Bad news

[Schmilblick]

Seals are back on GCD

[Simca]

As they should be - without them costing us a DPS GCD, seal twisting was going to become part of every fight.

[Reith]

Well, not completely bad news.

I re-looked at the changes they did to seals. It appears they took out the special GCD category for them but gave them a 1 second GCD - however, it also appears they did not give the same treatment to Seal of Justice. See here:

Previous special GCD Seal of Truth: http://www.wowdb.com/spells/121170-seal-of-truth
Newer 1 second GCD Seal of Truth: http://www.wowdb.com/spells/31801-seal-of-truth

Special GCD Seal of Justice: http://www.wowdb.com/spells/20164-seal-of-justice

There is no new iteration of Seal of justice which has a 1 second GCD because it doesn't exist; the previous special GCD Seal of Justice was updated to 8 seconds, as shown on the front page. So as of right now, switching to Seal of Justice will not initiate a regular GCD, but switching to any other seal will trigger a 1 second GCD.

[Simca]

I doubt that change is enough to stop seal twisting if you only need to use a GCD one way. They need to nerf Seal of Justice down to 14%.

[Palatinus]

I doubt that change is enough to stop seal twisting if you only need to use a GCD one way. They need to nerf Seal of Justice down to 14%.

Screw that, buff it so we wont want to use truth in pvp, and make it proc from judgement. Remove burden of guilt and come up with something decent.

[Kam12]

Let the nerfs begin?

[Requital]

As they should be - without them costing us a DPS GCD, seal twisting was going to become part of every fight.

Seal Twisting would have been perfectly fine it would have just separated the good players from the bad.

[Malthanis]

Seal Twisting would have been perfectly fine it would have just separated the good players from the bad.

But it's not easily inferred as a possible way to improve DPS. There needs to be a way in-game for people to get a grasp of how the class should be played to it's extent, without having to resort to theorycrafting from outside sources.

[Simca]

Seal Twisting would have been perfectly fine it would have just separated the good players from the bad.

I could and would have done seal twisting, just bound them to like R and Shift+R. Hit R, wait 13 seconds, hit Shift+R, hit R again, repeat. You're right, it requires skill (to the extent that following CLCRet requires skill because I'm sure they would add that into it). The only thing it would have separated is people who keybound and used addons vs people who didn't (though you could argue that IS skill in WoW, honestly).

It would be annoying as hell more than anything else. I hated refreshing seals in Vanilla, and I don't ever want it back.

[ruiizu]

I don't ever want to see Seal twisting become desirable or viable. Changing seals because the situation changes, sure, but Justice and Vengeance should not be switched just to gain a tad extra damage. That idea sucks and it's nothing but a clunky mechanic.

[Deleted]

Seal twisting would be awful if it became a solid part of dps, even just in pvp. I'd rather see changes that encouraged sticking to one seal, or even better just trimming the whole system down to one seal for melee, one for heal, maybe one for mitigation. Then maybe we could get abilities which actually did something interesting and required more thought than remembering sequencing to seperate good from bad?

[Bsod]

this is good news who really wants to seal dancing all the time?

[ipoststuff]

lets not introduce horrible gameplays. Seal twisting would be annoying as hell. I play this game for fun.

[Deleted]

I don't personally think this is such a bad thing. Currently as a Holy Paladin, I swap to Seal of Truth when there is a low healing point, just to do that little bit more of DPS. Seal of Insight for those parts of the fight where healing is needed, and Seal of Truth for when that extra 20,000 Damage was needed to prevent a wipe.

I'd like to see a little bit of seal swapping in Mists of Pandaria, however I will be shelving my Paladin in return for my Mistweaver. I just hope it isn't compulsory to become a moderate player. I think that to maximise your potential, you should be seal swapping, to gain that extra 3,000 DPS, however average players can quite easily get along with just the standard seal as it operates now.

[Requital]

Seal Twisting was amazing and anyone that played in TBC and did it will tell you they enjoyed it, The people who didn't enjoy it were those that didn't understand how to make it work. Not being limited by a GCD on seals would have extended our PvP skill cap by a pretty considerable amount but now instead were back down where we were.

[Velshin]

Seal Twisting was amazing and anyone that played in TBC and did it will tell you they enjoyed it, The people who didn't enjoy it were those that didn't understand how to make it work. Not being limited by a GCD on seals would have extended our PvP skill cap by a pretty considerable amount but now instead were back down where we were.

Totally agree with you here. In my personal opinion TBC retri for me was the best retri ever really was fun and require skills to master the spec.

[kosechi]

As they should be - without them costing us a DPS GCD, seal twisting was going to become part of every fight.

because seal twisting isn't already an important part of many fights?

do i have to break out the slayton videos for you?

[Simca]

because seal twisting isn't already an important part of many fights?

Specific fights for specific sets of time. Zon'ozz, Yorshaj, Warmaster, Spine, Madness. But it isn't every 13 seconds throughout the entire duration of the fight.

I'm fine with seal twisting for about 40 seconds to kill Black adds while still doing boss dps on Yorshaj. I'm not fine with doing it for the entire duration of 10-15 minute fights.

Seal Twisting was amazing and anyone that played in TBC and did it will tell you they enjoyed it, The people who didn't enjoy it were those that didn't understand how to make it work. Not being limited by a GCD on seals would have extended our PvP skill cap by a pretty considerable amount but now instead were back down where we were.

You can't even begin to make that kind of comparison. You may love TBC Ret but even if you brought back this form of seal twisting, it is completely different than the Ret of TBC. The fundamentals of the entire spec are different at this point, not to mention this kind of seal twisting isn't the type that requires skill (unlike TBC where mana was an issue and had to be managed), but merely the button mash right before stacks fall off. Fun stuff.

I admit that it would increase skill cap in PvP. Any increase in required actions in an already hectic environment where games can be decided by fractions of a second will undoubtedly increase skill cap. The problem is that so would forcing all Rets to press a button called "LIVE" every 5 seconds or their character instantly commits suicide. Therefore, I submit that proposals to increase skill cap must also be interesting. Put aside your TBC nostalgia (Seal of Blood is gone) and look at the current seals and tell me that would be interesting with a straight face.

Totally agree with you here. In my personal opinion TBC retri for me was the best retri ever really was fun and require skills to master the spec.

There is no assurance that bringing back ONE aspect of TBC Ret (without the same TBC seals even) would even be a good idea, let alone give you the fun you want.

[Frozen Death Knight]

Vanilla and "TBC" Retribution were pure garbage with the exception of the seal mechanic. Such a mechanic could work if they removed "Inquisition" and made the seals put up buffs (yourself)/debuffs (enemy) instead of doing pure Holy damage (mastery and other spells and abilities could be buffed to compensate). Other than that, I would not like to see the spec work remotely like it did, back then.

[Schmilblick]

People like the two buttons class that was the Retri back in Wotlk, facerolling FTW....