[brewmaster] Latest Patch discussions.

[Gallahadd]

Well, a new build is out, and with it some interesting changes to The Drunk Tank, I figured we need somewhere to discuss them

The good:
Fortifying Brew - After Fortifying Brew ends, you will be healed for the amount abosrbed. Not an outstanding change, but it's good to know any healing you recieve while this is active wont be wasted, also makes it a slightly better CD for Tanks.

Dampen Harm New: You dampen the damage from the most harmful attacks done to you. The next 3 attacks that deal damage equal to 10% or more of your total health are reduced in half. 1 Chi, Instant cast, 30 sec cooldown. very nice mini CD, good for soaking large breaths etc

Healing Elixers New: Anytime you drink from a Brew or Tea, you gain 10% of your total health. This effect cannot occur once every 15 sec. very very nice, makes Purifying Brew even better, sadly I get the feeling this and Dampen Harm will be on the same tier... I guess you can use this for bosses that don't have the big spikey attack, and DH for the ones that do

Dizzying Haze - Deals a high amount of threat. Nomnom, this will go some of the way to balancing the Breath of Fire changes

Keg Smash - Now costs 40 Energy instead of 1 Chi. Generates 2 Chi. Thank you Jesus.... we have an energy based cleave that generates Chi, now just lower the energy cost to something a bit less stupid (maybe 20) and we're good to go

Purifying Brew - Now has a 6 sec cooldown, down from 45. not really sure why they've done this, as Stagger doesn't stack up fast enough for you to NEED to purify every 6 seconds...

Shuffle - No longer has a cooldown. Ah.. That's why so basically build up a good chunk of threat, then start Shufflin' till the Dps get close, Purify, hit a bit, repeat.

Stance of the Sturdy Ox - Now also increases your total health by 30%. Wow... I know I said Brews need a +stamina passive but damn tbh though I can't see it going live like this, would just turn Brew's into mana sponges, I forsee this getting changed to 15% stam and 100% armor.

The Bad:
Blackout Kick - Additional damage now over 6 sec, down from 8 sec. I know this isn't a bad change, but I just don't see the point in BK with this Dot anymore... It was fine as an Execute, just leave it like that.

Breath of Fire - Now does 1,400 to 1,786 damage, down from 2,001 to 2,552. Myeh, not too bad really, with it doing 3x damage with DH stacks, it IS hitting somewhat like a firey truck, I think we all saw this coming.

Brewmaster Training - No longer makes Tiger Palm cost no Chi. awwww, lame

Guard - Now has a 30 sec cooldown. This is a wierd change... again don't see this going live, 30 seconds seems a bit high for a CD on a move so integral to our survival , tbh if you're going to stick such a CD on it, either make guard soak more base, or increase the scaling with Mastery.

Overall: Really not sure where Blizz are going with Monks... I can see it all coming together, I'm just not sure if they'll be any good once all is said and done... the good changes this patch are very good, and the bad are pretty bad, the change to Guard being the worst of them...

To be honest, if i was in charge I would change the brewmaster Mastery, at the moment it's a fixed chance (25%) to Stagger a scaling amount (50% - Mastery) but with the changes to Purifying Brew, we will NEVER take more than maybe one or two DoT ticks... Add in the CD on Guard and Mastery seems to be pretty much the worst stat for Brewmasters. I would change it to something more like 'Increases your chance to stagger by 1.25% and increases the amount absorbed by your guard by 3%'. This way it'd be a scaling chance to mitigate a fixed amount of damage, which is far easier to balance than the current version, would also make the use of Shuffle and PB more interesting than just 'use them both when they're off CD' the increase to Guard's absorbtion would also make it more of a mini CD than it is now.

[billtimbob]

I agree with mastery being a really bad stat now. Reducing stagger damage is almost useless when we can eliminate it entirely with a 6-second cooldown. And now with Guard being on a 30-second cooldown, it won't have nearly the kind of uptime it needs to make mastery effective. (Even taking into account the on-click effects from the statue.)

[Breccia]

Tank here:

Dampen Harm looks fantastic. Monks actually have access to a tanking talent, something the other tanks have trouble saying. Half damage from three attacks every 30 seconds is really potent.

Keg Smash continues to have that powerful 9% automiss on affected targets which is also quite strong. The energy cost needs to be high to validate that kind of power.

I'm fairly sure the 30-second cooldown of Guard was called for after the 2 Chi generation of Keg Smash. I'm not convinced that this is the correct way to go, but I'm guessing that's the reasoning behind the decision.

I'll be honest, I didn't like Fortifying Brew until now, and the change to Fortifying Brew is not what changed my mind. Whether you get heals at the end or not, you had to live 20 seconds with no heals, with no more than 2x your max health. There are a lot of fights right now where that's a real gamble, even with a Disc healer and Guard. However, throw in a 6-second Purifying Brew and your odds definitely increase.

Oh, and those DPS monks are going to love Dematerialize in PvP. It sounds like a great way of crushing rogues.

[Deleted]

Oh, and those DPS monks are going to love Dematerialize in PvP. It sounds like a great way of crushing rogues.

Dematerialize seems to be a healer-only passive you get when you choose Mistweaver spec.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I hope I'm wrong, but I think Blizz is about to jump the chi shark in this next build. Right now jab generates 2 chi as windwalker and there's a talent to make it generate 3. Now there's a windwalker skill in the next build to add another chi to it! That means one jab would generate all 4 chi. The only step after that would be to either nerf it to the ground or just have windwalker monks use chi like runes.

[Hijiri]

Jab and Keg Smash are currently both 40 energy 2 chi generators for Brewmasters.
Was curious if Jab is out of the rotation for this build?

[Breccia]

Dematerialize seems to be a healer-only passive you get when you choose Mistweaver spec.

Ah crap I missed that. Oh well, it still looks handy.

[Deleted]

Jab and Keg Smash are currently both 40 energy 2 chi generators for Brewmasters.
Was curious if Jab is out of the rotation for this build?

My guess is that Keg Smash could be seen as some kind of filler spell between Jabs. At the current point we need chi for threat as well as for survival. I guess between these two you are going to keep up Guard when needed (buffing it with Tiger Palm when you have a chi overflow), Shuffle most of the time as long as threat isn't a problem and negate that damage through Purifying Brew.

[Oratory]

Jab only generates 2 chi with the Power Strikes talent (and it has a 15sec cooldown on the bonus chi). Also, Keg Smash has an 8sec cooldown so Jab should still be used.

As for Guard, at this point I'm not even sure it's worth using at all on raid content - even if it had no cooldown. The chi cost on it is just too high when you consider our other options:

• Guard: 2 chi for a shield less that absorbs maybe a boss's swing
• Elusive Brew: 1 chi for +50% dodge for 10 seconds
• Dampen Harm (talent): 1 chi -50% damage for 3 meaningful attacks
• Purifying Brew: 1 chi to remove the stagger dot
• Shuffle: 2 chi for 100% stagger for 3 attacks over 6 seconds

Really the only way I see Guard being useful in this build, is when you stack it with Shuffle - costing a total of 4 chi.

I'd like to see Guard moved to an energy cost while keeping the cooldown, or add a way to remove the chi cost from it somehow (maybe via using free blackout kick procs)

[herpecin]

in its current state, guard will be used for large magic hits or large single physical hits what are unstaggerable(like maybe impale on madness). the trick with it will be knowing when you need it and having a 3 stack of the guard buffing buff up.

elusive brew is great and will be used on CD im sure.

dampen harm is another great thing, dampen harm + shuffle = 25% damage taken

the current "rotation" is, KS-> Jab-> Shuffle-> PB-> repeat. with power strikes this leaves you always at 1 chi, so you are ready for an EB or 1 jab/pick up a chi orb away from guard.

things will get changed around because with this you either take no damage from a melee swing, or stagger it only to clear your stagger damage in a few seconds.

and if they change mastery to reduce the initial hit when you stagger, it will be all mastery all day shuffle-> PB done deal take almost no damage.

from a balance standpoint, id like to see shuffle go back to a 30-45 second CD, take away the channel part just make it 3 stacks with 9 second duration.

also, something i havent seen anyone say, but monks dont have any "Demo Shout" effects(the damage reduced by 10% debuff). all other tanks have it in some way. tying it in with BoF would be a nice way to make us use that on bosses.

[Noviskers]

Shuffle needs to be changed so that it is no longer channeled. I dunno about you but sitting there channeling a spell for 12 seconds out of every 16 or so seconds does not seem like a fun play style if you ask me. Instead change shuffle to a self buff that increases stagger chance by, say 25%, this would still insure that parry/dodge would be a worthwhile stat as well as keeping mastery somewhat desirable.

Purifying Brew should be put back on a 15-30 second cool down or else stagger becomes a pointless mechanic, might as well just make Monks take 45% less damage at all times.

Keg Smash change is amazing and I can't begin to describe how nice a quality of life change this is. It is currently fine as it is.

Power Strikes needs to go away as a talent in my opinion as it causes too much chi generation for Windwalkers. Maybe it could come back as a Brewmaster only ability as Windwalkers and Mistweavers don't need it. Its not necessary though for BM.

The guard cool down is nice as it gives it a bit of a purpose without it being over powered like it was before when it was on a 6 second CD.

Still would like Expel Harm to generate a chi so that its not so costly to use this ability. Also not sure what to make of the new talents yet.

[Gallahadd]

I think they need to rework Shuffle, make it more like Shield Block and ShoR. Maybe make it 4 Chi, no CD "the next three attacks recieved have a 100% chance to be staggered, and reduces the damage of the stagger DoT by 50%'

Then you notice this rather interesting post from the main page: Mastery -- We're thinking about changing mastery to reduce the initial damage taken rather than the stagger periodic. I think this would be a MUCH better idea, revert the CD on PB, implement this change and suddenly Stagger becomes decent DR, PB becomes something you have to think about, instead of just dropping it every time you stagger, and Shuffle becomes a real CD, used to prevent large spikes.

[Noviskers]

A 4 chi cost would be too much, would Chi starve us like we were at the first beta. Two chi is fine especially since a decent amount of our other defensive moves require chi to be used.

[Gallahadd]

True, I was just trying to bring it into line with things like ShoR, which is 3Hp of 3, but tbh you can't really balance like that 2chi would be fine.

Other than cost, what do you think of the idea?

[Yorgl]

Totally on board with the idea that Shuffle needs to be not-channeled. A very short cooldown (~6 sec) would be ok if no CD seems to powerful for the developpers
As you said, channeling is not fun at all for a tank, and it could lead to a severe lack of mobility which can be deadly in many fight (and, in any case, is a liability on all fights) !

Also agrees with your comment on the mastery's change. It would be a much more interesting mechanic, regarding Stagger's synergy with PB and Shuffle.

[Catharlex]

I'm curious as to how other Monk tanks are gemming since the HP increase. I've been trying different ways of gemming (stam, mastery, dodge, dodge/parry balance, stam/mastery) and was curious how others are seeing success with their way of gemming.

[Deleted]

Just sorted my Brewmaster Pre-made, & queued for End-Time. Got Murozond. & it was a massacre.

Dunno wether or not it was the healer, but I felt REAL squishy. can anyone give me a rough idea of the rotation? what debuffs etc?

[Catharlex]

Just sorted my Brewmaster Pre-made, & queued for End-Time. Got Murozond. & it was a massacre.

Dunno wether or not it was the healer, but I felt REAL squishy. can anyone give me a rough idea of the rotation? what debuffs etc?

Biggest issue with this fight is that it is magic heavy, and right now Monks are fairly weak against magic attacks.

I would recommend Guarding on CD on this fight, and making sure you're the only one using your black ox statue for the extra Guards. Try to get a fresh shield up before a breath. Make sure all of your own personal Guards are buffed with 3 Tiger Palms. Try to shuffle when he isn't dealing magic damage. I find you can pretty much rotate Shuffle and Purifying Brew in the current build.

Were you Keg Smashing on CD as well? It's a great Chi generator, even on Single Target. I also haven't determined if this is functioning properly or not, but 5 man bosses can be effected by Dizzying Haze right now. You should aim to keep that up, as it's another 9% of avoidance for you. Other than that, does your own expel harm on yourself, and make sure you have the newest talent "Dampen Harm". This is another great move that should make you feel less squishy. (You could use this in conjunction with a statue Guard for the breath)

[Deleted]

Biggest issue with this fight is that it is magic heavy, and right now Monks are fairly weak against magic attacks.

I would recommend Guarding on CD on this fight, and making sure you're the only one using your black ox statue for the extra Guards. Try to get a fresh shield up before a breath. Make sure all of your own personal Guards are buffed with 3 Tiger Palms. Try to shuffle when he isn't dealing magic damage. I find you can pretty much rotate Shuffle and Purifying Brew in the current build.

Were you Keg Smashing on CD as well? It's a great Chi generator, even on Single Target. I also haven't determined if this is functioning properly or not, but 5 man bosses can be effected by Dizzying Haze right now. You should aim to keep that up, as it's another 9% of avoidance for you. Other than that, does your own expel harm on yourself, and make sure you have the newest talent "Dampen Harm". This is another great move that should make you feel less squishy. (You could use this in conjunction with a statue Guard for the breath)

Thanks, I kept Guard up as much as possible, used Tiger Palm for the enhanced guards (stacks to 3 right?) & i was using drunken haze for the flame breath - having to target it instead of it hitting my targetted enemy was a pain, & I didn't know about Keg Smash generating 2 chi until after the fight >.>

to be honest, I think the healer was struggling, I literally hit the deck WELL quick, & Fortifying Brew is a double-edged sword!!!

[Catharlex]

Thanks, I kept Guard up as much as possible, used Tiger Palm for the enhanced guards (stacks to 3 right?) & i was using drunken haze for the flame breath - having to target it instead of it hitting my targetted enemy was a pain, & I didn't know about Keg Smash generating 2 chi until after the fight >.>

to be honest, I think the healer was struggling, I literally hit the deck WELL quick, & Fortifying Brew is a double-edged sword!!!

I believe Fortifying Brew is broken this patch; it doesn't increase health, but still makes you immune to healing. It's pretty much a death wish right now.