A Diablo 3 Impression from a Long Time Blizzard Player

[Hedleyazg]

Thank God Diablo 3 is a 2012 game made by the Blizzard standard quality we know...

Tell me where I can sell stuff for real money in your other dungeon crawlers ?

Like I said: comparing VERY MEDIOCRE OLD games like Torchlight with the crafting/economic AH's found in D3 is very weird.

D3 is far more than a simple dungeon crawler.

Apparently you did not play the closed beta or you would have seen the huge impact the sales of mats and crafted gear have in this game.

The economic macro game makes D3 unique in MMO land at the moment.

You simply loose on all accounts when comparing D3 with 90's dungeon crawlers.

If you didn't see it in Beta, I question IF you even entered it.

Do you even read my replies or do you just hit the reply button and spew more garbage? I played beta. I played a Monk and Witch Doctor. The game was easy, its game play was VERY similar to how Torchlight plays. Torchlight is far from mediocre. It is somewhat old I guess if you consider a game from 3 years ago old. Also where did I compare Diablo 3 to a 90s dungeon crawler? That's right, I didn't.

[BenBos]

I agree. Diablo 3 is too linear or rail like or what you wanna call it. Compared to Diablo 2 you could run to wrong places and even to the boss from the start if you wanted to do that.
In diablo 3 (atleast from the first part) it is IMPOSSIBLE to explore and go wrong to just check out the first act. This is a weakness IMO. I really dont know why so many games these days want you to hold your hand. I hope its a little better longer in in to the game. And ofc I know its not an MMO but still in diablo 2 you could go loooooong past the place you should go to. As I said its 100% impossible to go wrong.

In the BETA you have to do quests to unlock different places. I dunno, it feels so instanced and tiny.

that's because D3 is a 2012 fast action game and NOT a pre era MMORPG game you joined in the late 90's , no one would be interested in.

D3 blows the lame old fashioned MMORPG's of the market in its up tempo fun hack and slash playing. Let alone a pre MMO era game as D1 or D2.

People these days DEMAND fast furious action NOW, not some "exploring and waiting for action to get started in 26 minutes...".

---------- Post added 2012-04-23 at 10:35 AM ----------

Do you even read my replies or do you just hit the reply button and spew more garbage? I played beta. I played a Monk and Witch Doctor. The game was easy, its game play was VERY similar to how Torchlight plays. Torchlight is far from mediocre. It is somewhat old I guess if you consider a game from 4 years ago old. Also where did I compare Diablo 3 to a 90s dungeon crawler? That's right, I didn't.

You didn't experience the crafting or RMAH, that I can tell in a flash.
So explain to me how does the crafting work ?

[Rocketsurgeon]

Again, your argument makes no sense. Blizzard left their own feedback and participated in the development of the game. They have every right to claim ownership of the franchise, especially since Condor gave the rights to Blizzard the moment they signed up to become a part of their company. Both in law and in the creative department Blizzard can claim to be the developers of Diablo 1 and 2.

A legal claim, or a claim based upon giving feedback to an IP's creator, does nothing to lessen the fact that the IP's creator is its creator. The birthplace is unchanged. The parents are the same and they have no less claim to being that, even if their child is out of their hands and unrecognizable.

Thank God Diablo 3 is a 2012 game made by the Blizzard standard quality we know...
Tell me where I can sell stuff for real money in your other dungeon crawlers ?
Like I said: comparing VERY MEDIOCRE OLD games like Torchlight with the crafting/economic AH's found in D3 is very weird.
D3 is far more than a simple dungeon crawler.

You're operating under the assumption that everyone is in agreement about the benefits of an economy game superimposed over an ARPG. Not everyone considers that a boon. Some people are looking for dungeon crawlers.

[Necronium]

That`s true for a real rpg (or say traditional) but not in hack and slash...Why? Because it`s based on gear more than storyline and bosses have the better chance to improve your gear by drop. Possible to argue with me how true is this, but just remember what D2 players did all the time? Bossfarming..Why? For loot...
In single player is almost the same...(bit more focus on story, but just slighly)

You two are obviously talking about two completely different things.

Yeah, you do farm bosses. Question is, when do you farm bosses? Sure as hell ain't on the first run through normal.
Later on, yes. First run through, no.
I don't know about you, but the first time I ran through Diablo 2, I didn't sit and farm Andariel 20 times for gear before turning to act 2 in normal.

[Hedleyazg]

that's because D3 is a 2012 fast action game and NOT a pre era MMORPG game you joined in the late 90's , no one would be interested in.

D3 blows the lame old fashioned MMORPG's of the market in its up tempo fun hack and slash playing. Let alone a pre MMO era game as D1 or D2.

People these days DEMAND fast furious action NOW, not some "exploring and waiting for action to get started in 26 minutes...".

---------- Post added 2012-04-23 at 10:35 AM ----------



You didn't experience the crafting or RMAH, that I can tell in a flash.
So explain to me how does the crafting work ?

You can pay the guy gold to level him up so he can make different/better things and you destroy magic items to get reagents to craft stuff with him with random stats.

[Frozen Death Knight]

Do you even read my replies or do you just hit the reply button and spew more garbage? I played beta. I played a Monk and Witch Doctor. The game was easy, its game play was VERY similar to how Torchlight plays. Torchlight is far from mediocre. It is somewhat old I guess if you consider a game from 3 years ago old. Also where did I compare Diablo 3 to a 90s dungeon crawler? That's right, I didn't.

To spin it back to the actual order, Torchlight plays very similar to Diablo. Again, just because some of the developers of Diablo made Torchlight does not change the fact that Diablo came out first.

[Hedleyazg]

To spin it back to the actual orderm Torchlight plays very similar to Diablo. Again, just because some of the developers of Diablo made Torchlight does not change the fact that Diablo came out first.

Torchlight does not play similar to the original Diablo. Even if you want to argue that it does, it is the same people creating the game. They are the creators, they can copy themselves if they want since they know that formula works.

[Necronium]

Torchlight does not play similar to the original Diablo.

They are both dungeon crawling hack and slash games... All those games are very similar when it comes down to the basics.

[Hedleyazg]

They are both dungeon crawling hack and slash games... All those games are very similar when it comes down to the basics.

That is the only thing they've got in common which isn't much. If you tried to play Diablo like you would Torchlight, you'd get destroyed
quickly.

Anyways. I am tired of these strawman arguments. I am done with this thread. Diablo 3 will be a decent game, people will like it. Torchlight 2 will be better I think.

[BenBos]

You're operating under the assumption that everyone is in agreement about the benefits of an economy game superimposed over an ARPG. Not everyone considers that a boon. Some people are looking for dungeon crawlers.

The benifits of a crafting game besides a dungeon crawler means there are more playing options.

The fact EVERY blue drop is meaningful in such a system is more than a boon.

Add the fact EVERYTHING in Diablo 3 even has a REAL MONEY counter value added, is simply icing on the cake and makes the other dungeon crawlers rather look like playing Poker with fake chips.

You can ignore the extras of course, but NO, you will not because it is an integral part of the overall game experience.

And it will be the reason why Diablo 3 will be played LONG after being level and gear capped by anyone loving it.

[Wildmoon]

None of the designers of Diablo work at Blizzard any longer according to the Diablo wiki. Also one of the Diablo designers is the guy that designed the Battle.net stuff early on.

From his bio -

Erich Schaefer was a Project Lead, Design Lead and Art Director on Diablo and Diablo II. He was the sole environment artist on the original Diablo, as well as the interface artist for both Diablo and Diablo II. Erich also played an important role in the design of the structure and interface for Blizzard’s free online gaming service, Battle.net.

He played important role in creating BNET but it's not his idea and his work alone. That' why I said many people created Diablo not Runic game alone. Story of Diablo was written by Metzen and Roper. All of Cinematics was done at Blizzard Irvine. Metzen also worked on story,script and artwork of D2.

[Bakilorne]

Love how they balance the same difficulty of staying alive but with more active playing than dodging/hiding. Of course that will be a big role later and the beta was so easy.

I have friends who died over and over yet I haven't had to use potions unless I joined a late game with a fresh toon.

New fresh changes to a lovely game that still manages to retain that lovely old aspect some how. Of course there are things that we won't see until the actual game so for all we know it might be utter failure past a point or SO damn amazing!!

[Frozen Death Knight]

A legal claim, or a claim based upon giving feedback to an IP's creator, does nothing to lessen the fact that the IP's creator is its creator. The birthplace is unchanged. The parents are the same and they have no less claim to being that, even if their child is out of their hands and unrecognizable.



You're operating under the assumption that everyone is in agreement about the benefits of an economy game superimposed over an ARPG. Not everyone considers that a boon. Some people are looking for dungeon crawlers.

The birthplace, however, is not only residing in the developers of Torchlight. There still are Blizzard North employees at Blizzard and the original Blizzard department did help Condor/Blizzard North out by giving them feedback, resources, and other useful help when developing Diablo 1 and 2. Does that not warrant creative ownership, or are the people who left Blizzard to make Torchlight the only ones who can do so? Being someone who often participate in creative projects around the net, I find it insulting that people suggest that a select few can claim ownership when they were not the only ones helping out on the project. Some may be more responsible than others, but everyone involved has been helping out in making a project possible, and at that point it is pointless arguing about the creative ownership, since it resides in everyone who participated.

[Rocketsurgeon]

The benifits of a crafting game besides a dungeon crawler means there are more playing options.
The fact EVERY blue drop is meaningful in such a system is more than a boon.
Add the fact EVERYTHING in Diablo 3 even has a REAL MONEY counter value added, is simply icing on the cake and makes the other dungeon crawlers rather look like playing Poker with fake chips.
You can ignore the extras of course, but NO, you will not because it is an integral part of the overall game experience.
And it will be the reason why Diablo 3 will be played LONG after being level and gear capped by anyone loving it.

More options aren't always good, not when they are undesired and unavoidable. That's not a boon, no. That icing is rancid. I generally prefer to play poker with fake chips, personally. You are right that you can not ignore these features, though.
See, I'm looking to play a game. Game in this sense having the connotation of stress relief and the absence of worldly affairs. Especially money. Even if I played a game for a living, and made a killing off of it, I'd still need to find a different game to do what I put games in my life to do. And that extra game would preferable be an ARPG.

Your comment about D3 having lasting success is silly when you consider the durability of its predecessor. I've played D2 for over a decade. Many, many people continue to fire it up from time to time even this far after its release. And it lacks the feature that you're considering the elixir of longevity. D3 would last ages simply for being another in its line. There are sports that are over a thousand years old. An old premise isn't necessarily bad. And interest in exploration and depth is not at a low, just look at the money and support pouring into kickstarter or indie based games.

[alanm26]

Wow, I can't believe I read this whole thread. Super entertaining. Anyway, OP, thanks for trying to get a decent discussion going. First impressions are of course important when trying to decide whether a game is worth sticking with. Also I like hearing honest opinions form people and talking about them intelligently since I'm looking forward to this game, and there's not much else to do while waiting. But yeah I'll never get the "you can't say x when you haven't played past y%, when the game isn't even out yet.
I have my own worries too about certain things and how they'll play out, but I'll just have to wait and see.

[Frozen Death Knight]

Torchlight does not play similar to the original Diablo. Even if you want to argue that it does, it is the same people creating the game. They are the creators, they can copy themselves if they want since they know that formula works.

Diablo 3 plays fairly similar to Diablo 2 in a lot of aspects and since you compare Diablo 3 to Torchlight, you have made that argument yourself, even if you would not admit that.

[Rocketsurgeon]

The birthplace, however, is not only residing in the developers of Torchlight. There still are Blizzard North employees at Blizzard and the original Blizzard department did help Condor/Blizzard North out by giving them feedback, resources, and other useful help when developing Diablo 1 and 2. Does that not warrant creative ownership, or are the people who left Blizzard to make Torchlight the only ones who can do so? Being someone who often participate in creative projects around the net, I find it insulting that people suggest that a select few can claim ownership when they were not the only ones helping out on the project. Some may be more responsible than others, but everyone involved has been helping out in making a project possible, and that point it is pointless arguing about the creative ownership, since it resides in everyone who participated.

I think you think I'm arguing that Runic's members can claim some sort of exclusive title as fathers of Diablo. No, Blizzard has their fair share. I'm only suggesting that Torchlight isn't a ripoff, but a continuation.

[Deleted]

Yes they ripped off Diablo , a game that THEY created. So get your facts straight. If ANYTHING, Blizzard is ripping off THEIR idea for Diablo 3. Not the other way around. Blizzard North created Diablo. The people that created Blizzard North left and created Runic Games. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_Games

Nobody was ripped off, Diablo 3 is a sequel to the series, its Diablo 2 with a better graphics engine there really isnt much more they could of done and Torchlight was made by some of the original Blizzard staff, IMO no way was Torchlight as good or even close to Diablo 2 though apart from the updated graphics, gameplay and lore/story wise it was nowhere even close.

The same will be said about Diablo 3 and Torchlight 2 id bet D3 is 10+ the game Torchlight 2 is, for me the only thing torchlight had going for it was the updated gfx.

[Deleted]

The OP is right. The game looks nice and polished, and it's quite fun to play. But there's nothing amazing and there's nothing deeply innovative. It's just that, a good sequel to a succesful formula.
It seems like that's the trend for Blizzard lately, and until it sells, we can hardly say they are wrong. They used to be on the frontline when it came to be original and breath-taking: that's how Diablo, Starcraft and WoW were at release. But now innovation and amazement come from other sides these days, and I wonder if in the near future this will hurt Blizzard more than they expect...

[Heathy]

but herein lies the problem, Blizzard created Diablo 3 to fit into anyone favorite list without really taking what worked from Diablo 2 and just expanding on it, from what ive read, gathered and seen so far, diablo 3 kept the hack and slash loot grind, but halfed all the loot and took away the stat building inventory management, either saving for an expansion or, replacing it with an AH that i would argue is going to be about as useful as the Wow AH, ie a good place to gear up alts and get some spare gold for your crap, other than that i dont see it being a revolution in non-mmo gaming. just a niche a very poor niche. arguably the fun of diablo 2 was the never ending grind for better loot whether it was runes or gems or socketable gear which would end up amazing or it was just going through the difficulties so you could unlock the bonuses you get from the quests like a free socket in act 5, all this stuff i imagine is absent or just wasn't fun in the eyes of the almighty, but truth is mystery and hidden choice or just choice in general is what makes a good rpg, when you strip away all the choice it no longer has mystery which means it has no longevity. sorry but grinding loot and just pure gear in d3 will get old for me fast. the crafting system could potentially be cool, the blatant randomness could become irritating, i prefer spontaneous random rather than obvious random, if that makes any sence, bieng told, ok it might take forever to find what your looking for, but having a crafting window with gear with random prefixes and then having to grind purly for the sake of trying to craft something with the prefixes you want, tedious.

to me im disappointed theres no rune words no gems no cube no charms, which means theres like half a game right from the start. hacking and slashing through the beta, i was just so bored with gold, belts, pants, boots greys here greys there, oh a blue, oh its crap, more gear gear gear, nothing interesting that i can keep for later or find a use for at some point, no just simple gear over and over gear gear gear thats all that drops thats all you see. boring. they left out a big part of what broke up the action, finding something and pondering, do i have the space, what shall i throw away, can i use this later?... none of that seems to be there and it was a huge part of why i played d2 for as long as i did.