The 7th? EA strikes again!

[RoninaThorstone]

/facepalm

It was just a bad parody/satire of the current state of social perception of what we are talking about here. Forum comedy, mission failed!

Did not catch the humor. Sorry, too use to it being real.

[Dakia]

Not to mention that it would seem kind of odd to me for a significant part of three hundred thousand purchasers, out of two million, to have "opted out" in just eleven days.

A lot of people do just that. They are required to input payment/CC information for the three 30 days. Once that is done and they get their time, they simply cancel the recurring charge and only play on the free. I mean, there where endless threads about how terrible TOR was and its inevitable demise before the game even released from the early access people.

[SirRobin]

A lot of people do just that. They are required to input payment/CC information for the three 30 days. Once that is done and they get their time, they simply cancel the recurring charge and only play on the free. I mean, there where endless threads about how terrible TOR was and its inevitable demise before the game even released from the early access people.

But a big enough chunk of three hundred thousand for Frank to feel the need to include with "not started yet?" Though that could be back checked through sales. When did TOR hit two million in sales? I know its hardly authoritative but VG is showing about 1.7 for 2011. Hmm... Lets dig a little here. Well I'm not finding anything dating from December or early January about two million sold. There is one from January 20th referencing two million but that's from an "analyst." Most everything else seems to be referencing the Feb 1st call. So that might support Frank referencing later data than Dec 31st.

[Deadmedic]

the reason i think some ppl may be worried about sub numbers is EA wont keep a game going that isnt doing well, they are douches like that, as a matter of fact the reason the game shipped to buggy was because it either shipped that day or EA just pulled the plug completely. so if sub numbers ARE lower than the 1 mill they say they need to maintain profit, then EA will drop Swtor and those ppl who do like playing wont be able to. now i have my swtor account active atm, but i have not logged into it in 3 weeks, the 1.2 patch seemed to add more buggyness, specifically to the game engine and i just couldnt stand playing. im not sure if i will cancel or not. but i might play today, just to see how things are.

[Dakia]

. . . . the 1.2 patch seemed to add more buggyness, specifically to the game engine and i just couldnt stand playing

That is really odd. By the vast majority of accounts, the engine performance and optimization vastly improved with 1.2. Have you tried ticketing your specific issues to CS?

[Leadsop]

whoa whoa whoa.

Lets take a look at your example.

1m copies of a game that lacks a monthly subscription.

If we were to compare apples to apples we would look at ea's statement that they sold over 2m copies.

However, they are talking about 1.7m subscribers. (oranges)

You can't say: We currently have sold 1.7 million subscribers.

Doesn't make sense.

You can't really try and draw a comparison between a 1 time payment and a monthly subscription.

edit: I mean, what you are describing would be a representation of subscription numbers so outside the norm that I think it would be illegal.

So if they came out and said, "We sold 6 million retail/DigiDownload versions of the game, and we currently have 1.5-2 million subscriptions..." would that make a difference?

How many people are still playing Skyrim right now? or Halo or COD or some other comparable SP/MP online game? Nowhere near that many.

[RoninaThorstone]

So if they came out and said, "We sold 6 million retail/DigiDownload versions of the game, and we currently have 1.5-2 million subscriptions..." would that make a difference?

...

It wouldn't have made a difference because thats what they did.

[Leadsop]

...

It wouldn't have made a difference because thats what they did.

Excellent job Bwana, you earn a cookie. That's my point. They DID that. Those numbers alone should signify a highly successful game.

To some people, the only comparison we have to this game being successful is its comparison to WOW's subscriber base and/or if this game has everything that they've decided is required of an MMO (i.e., addons, etc), and that's unfortunate.

[RoninaThorstone]

Excellent job Bwana, you earn a cookie. That's my point. They DID that. Those numbers alone should signify a highly successful game.

To some people, the only comparison we have to this game being successful is its comparison to WOW's subscriber base and/or if this game has everything that they've decided is required of an MMO (i.e., addons, etc), and that's unfortunate.

I think you may have jumped into the convo without really reading what we are talking about.

Edit: You were talking about it in a general sense rather then directed at me. Was a little confused.

[Leonard McCoy]

To some people, the only comparison we have to this game being successful is its comparison to WOW's subscriber base and/or if this game has everything that they've decided is required of an MMO (i.e., addons, etc), and that's unfortunate.

It used to be that mmos were considered succesfull with only a fraction of wows player base. I mean a tiny fraction at that. As you pointed out though we live in the age of world of warcraft and subsequently everything is compared to it rightly or wrongly. It's extremely unfortunate but it's the reality we live in. Having said that their are more than a few people who realize this and don't let it bother them or affect their gameplay.

[Tarien]

SUB NUMBERS GO UP
The people who love the game are going to never let anyone hear the end of it, ever. So no change. Also Jesus will return on the back of a raptor which is itself surfing a live shark, since clearly anything goes.

The people who hate the game are going to seriously doubt that an MMO with as dubious a launch as SWTORs managed to do what no other MMO has done since WoW and will continue to believe that EA are using vague wording to fudge their numbers. So, no change.

SUB NUMBERS GO DOWN
The people who love the game are going to say "it doesn't matter if SWTOR is losing or gaining because I love the game and the game is profitable with 500k subs and blah blah blah..." and they are right. And they will go about their business... but deep down inside they feel the pain when they realise that their favourite MMO isn't so popular with everyone.

The people who want to slam on the game are going to be proven right, tell everyone I told you so for a week, and then move onto the next game they can bash having successfully proved in their own minds that SWTOR has failed.

Edited for less pro-SWTOR bias, clearly both sides of the fence are as retarded as each other.

SWTOR is an average MMO with a great levelling experience and a great IP, if people are happy playing it then:

Why do you guys even freaking care?

RIFT has somewhere in the region of 250-300k players but I am ridiculously happy with the game. I don't even know how many TERA has, and I don't care, it's so much goddamn fun it should be a class A drug.

Do yourselves a favor, when the numbers get released try not to care or get drawn in. I can make a successful argument on the merits of any MMO I like and none of my arguments rely on subscription numbers. So when the haters come calling next week because despite SirRobin's frankly terrifying optimism I seriously doubt that SWTOR has bucked the trend and rose in numbers, don't argue numbers, argue the good things about the game, if you must argue at all

[Leonard McCoy]

terrifying optimism I seriously doubt that SWTOR has bucked the trend and rose in numbers, don't argue numbers, argue the good things about the game, if you must argue at all

Their's no reason that it couldn't have. The release was staggered so more people were buying it further down the road. Historically your quite accurate though it will probably loose people but theirs nothing to say that the trend can't be broken. What I expect is that it will eventually stabilize at some decent figure. It will ebb and flow with new content. A mini world of warcraft. People will sub for a month or two for the new content, unsub when their finished with it and then come back when new stuff comes out. If BW can release the new content fast enough well then that won't be as much of an issue I guess. It will be interesting to see.

[SirRobin]

because despite SirRobin's frankly terrifying optimism

---------- Post added 2012-05-03 at 03:09 PM ----------

Though where I'm mostly coming from there is pondering if EA's full court press with trials, free weekends, free week, and free month brought enough new and old back to the game. If the call references more "current" data than the end of the quarter, their numbers could very well be two million or even more.

[Tarien]

Their's no reason that it couldn't have

Except that it did not launch to universal acclaim really did it?

I'm not knocking it, no MMO really does, I'm just saying that it wasn't well received by everyone. Take a look at the reviews for SWTOR and RIFT. See how both receive good industry reviews at launch, but notice the difference in player reviews? Also check this player reviewed ranking list of released MMOs, RIFT is 2nd, SWTOR is 60th. If RIFT lost half it's subs and it is far more popular with players than SWTOR, why would you expect SWTOR to grow? It defies logic.

But as I said, all that really matters is that there are enough people to do whatever you want to do and you are enjoying yourself.

Small side note but the two MMOs I play atm are RIFT and TERA, it seems I have a penchant for four letter all-caps names and incidentally the two highest rated MMOs on mmorpg.com. What are the chances?

[RoninaThorstone]

Do yourselves a favor, when the numbers get released try not to care or get drawn in. I can make a successful argument on the merits of any MMO I like and none of my arguments rely on subscription numbers. So when the haters come calling next week because despite SirRobin's frankly terrifying optimism I seriously doubt that SWTOR has bucked the trend and rose in numbers, don't argue numbers, argue the good things about the game, if you must argue at all

I think that sirrobin is anything but optimistic.

I think me, forsedar, tony, and a few others are optimistic.

I think robin is just being level headed.

Everything he has said so far has been along the lines of "Alright game, not my cup of tea. It'll be around for years, as was SWG, and be a source of profit for EA"

I mean, think about it. SWG was still around till swtor launched on the 20th... SWG.

Swtor is going to be around. It aint no jebus.

[SirRobin]

I think robin is just being level headed.

Don't let my ex-wife hear you saying that.

Now I have not been that nice to TOR. The "trend," so to speak, has been for the big splash, plateau, and then the long spiral down to a lower plateau. Not the most accurate description but it gives the general idea. However, the difference with TOR is that EA has really gone on the offensive this time. They've pushed TOR harder and faster, through marketing, trials, freebies, etc, than any other MMORPG I can recall. Stir that in with BioWare continuing to work on the game and maybe TOR just might buck that trend.

Again, TOR isn't a "bad" game. Its also in a hell of a lot better shape than AoC and WAR were at four months after launch, if I recall correctly. I'm still interested in the game and I might come back someday if the conditions are right. Yet, without an active account I can't post on the official board so I hang out here instead.

[RoninaThorstone]

I finally figured out what the swtor hate reminds me of.



2:10

Bioware: "I am trying to invent electricity... and you look like an asshole."

[Roar-Powah]

It's a public company. They damned well better give the correct numbers or they'll get sued by the investors for falsifying data to manipulate the stock price. Ever since Enron we have SOX compliance. These rules dictate what you have to disclose.

If they were a software company subscriptions would be equal to having a support contact. SWTOR is a service.

What the investors know and what the public knows are 2 completely different things. It might be a public company but they always have to keep a positive public image.

[Leonard McCoy]

Except that it did not launch to universal acclaim really did it?

I'm not knocking it, no MMO really does, I'm just saying that it wasn't well received by everyone. Take a look at the reviews for SWTOR and RIFT. See how both receive good industry reviews at launch, but notice the difference in player reviews? Also check this player reviewed ranking list of released MMOs, RIFT is 2nd, SWTOR is 60th. If RIFT lost half it's subs and it is far more popular with players than SWTOR, why would you expect SWTOR to grow? It defies logic.

But as I said, all that really matters is that there are enough people to do whatever you want to do and you are enjoying yourself.

Small side note but the two MMOs I play atm are RIFT and TERA, it seems I have a penchant for four letter all-caps names and incidentally the two highest rated MMOs on mmorpg.com. What are the chances?

Go look up the history of player reviews. Meta critic has an article about it. It just means people have an axe to grind. They are not fair sources or representative of the general thoughts and feelings of a given game. User reviews are indicative of very little I'm afraid other than people who are mad about a game really get mad at a game and have alot of time on their hands apparently.

[Tarien]

Go look up the history of player reviews. Meta critic has an article about it. It just means people have an axe to grind. They are not fair sources or representative of the general thoughts and feelings of a given game. User reviews are indicative of very little I'm afraid other than people who are mad about a game really get mad at a game and have alot of time on their hands apparently.

Well, it's the same story on two sites, and I am only comparing like for like, if one score is flawed then the other is too, but by the same amount surely? I understand what you are saying but I am not trying to match player reviews against industry reviews, I am trying to illustrate the players feelings about a game because it ties in to their likelihood of subscribing.