LFD and LFR are hurting WoW gameplay.

[Grimlair]

Tbh im betting that the OP just got screwed over in LFR an is going if i cant have it no one can.

[asharia]

There is no question that LFR and LFD were and are colossal failures. Its no coincidence that previous expansions, before these features were implemented, were more popular and largely considered better playing experiences.

They are the main cause of all the issues with today's version of the game. And the main cause of the arcadey playstyle.

Unfortunately, its too late to remove them. And, since they are a huge cash cow, Blizzard would never do it anyway.

[Deleted]

I'd like to point out two things;

One, I hear these moans of the past claiming that every time you wanted to run an instance, you had to spam trade for ages. Yes, that, or join a big guild with a lot of raiders/instance runners. I had no problems with running instances all throughout Vanilla and TBC mainly because if I wanted to go somewhere, I was either grinding something in an end-level zone using the General Channel to find a group (didn't really take that long, there was always SOMEONE around to group up with), or just asking in the guild. Hell there was ALWAYS something to do if you couldn't run an instance (leveling an alt is my personal favourite). This still rings true. You want to run something other than LFR raids? Joining a raiding guild. Can't cause of time/dedication/attention span/skill? Then forget about it.

Two, LFR encourages people to be a dick. Something that encourages you to make a giant ass and force your epic gloves up someone's behind is never a smooth move in my eyes. LFR does exactly that. You don't have to be kind, you don't have to be skilled, you don't have to worry about enrage or mechanics for most of the fights. You need like a kid making his birthday gift list. You want it -all- and you don't give a damn. You say gearing is easy? Try gearing while rolling against a legion of people's offspec and vendorspec.

Yes, things got easier/streamlined/quicker/more accessible to the less-skilled/younger masses. Gone are the days of effort=result. You don't have to raise a finger to find a group, you don't have to run dailies for your rep, you don't have to grind eggs for a fancy mount. True, the past 3 expansion brought a load of flashy additions such as the calendar, chained FPs, smooth gameplay and a near-bugless experience, but I miss the days where you'd walk into someone wearing a full T1 set and realizing you were seeing something pretty rare. Alas.

[draykorinee]

Before these features were implemented, were more popular and largely considered better playing experiences.
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Think the wrath sub figures disagree, the fact that subs havent dropped since lfr kind of disagrees with everything you try to say like fact.

[Sansnom]

There is no question that LFR and LFD were and are colossal failures. Its no coincidence that previous expansions, before these features were implemented, were more popular and largely considered better playing experiences.

Those are just your opinion from your own playing experience, unless you have something more substantial to back it up.

[Vook]

They've arguably improved gameplay more than they've hurt it.

What's REALLY been hurt though, is server community, which is getting more and more nails in its coffin with every new feature blizz releases, the most recent being the "cross-realm zone" thing.

[Neji]

Hi, so just making this thread because I'm feeling concerned about how easy WoW is getting and how we can get geared so quickly nowaday. Also do you think it is what prevent players from going outside cities? So i'd like to know your opinion about if Blizzard should or shouldn't remove them.

No hating comments please I just want players opinion.

If you want my opinion, personally I hate those features, I've used them so much I know what I'm talking about. And I can only see how WoW is getting boring because everything is going so fast because of LFD and LFR.

So Yes I think LFD should be removed for level caped players and Yes I think removing completely LFR will be a benefit.

Thanks.

I can understand some of the sentiment towards LFD/LFR but at this point we've come too far. The proles (I use the term in jest! Honest!) have been given a window to end game content (albeit in an incredibly weakened state) and there is no turning back.

My real issue with both? 1. At least as far as this last tier goes, joining LFR was mandatory in order to get the tanking 4pc. Attempting hard modes without it was a nightmare. 2. LFR in particular is breeding bad raiders.

When you throw people in front of a shiny new boss and strip him of all his abilities and mechanics and then give someone a shiny trophy at the end and a pat on the back you've done nothing to help them grow as a player and raider. Said LFR junkies now try to make the transition from LFR into a real raid and have zero clue about what is going on. At least in the past people would ask questions about what a boss did or would perhaps spend some time doing some outside research. This is rarely seen anymore (at least on my server) and folks who have killed Deathwing on LFR think they are the cock of the walk and don't have to bother with mechanics like stacking up for a ball bounce on Zon'ozz or pushing a purple button on Ultraxion.

It's disheartening that there is zero attempt to actually help people get better. Simply shove them through the cattle chute, let them take a look at the final boss and push them out the other end with a cookie.

[Nadev]

I can understand some of the sentiment towards LFD/LFR but at this point we've come too far. The proles (I use the term in jest! Honest!) have been given a window to end game content (albeit in an incredibly weakened state) and there is no turning back.

My real issue with both? 1. At least as far as this last tier goes, joining LFR was mandatory in order to get the tanking 4pc. Attempting hard modes without it was a nightmare. 2. LFR in particular is breeding bad raiders.

When you throw people in front of a shiny new boss and strip him of all his abilities and mechanics and then give someone a shiny trophy at the end and a pat on the back you've done nothing to help them grow as a player and raider. Said LFR junkies now try to make the transition from LFR into a real raid and have zero clue about what is going on. At least in the past people would ask questions about what a boss did or would perhaps spend some time doing some outside research. This is rarely seen anymore (at least on my server) and folks who have killed Deathwing on LFR think they are the cock of the walk and don't have to bother with mechanics like stacking up for a ball bounce on Zon'ozz or pushing a purple button on Ultraxion.

It's disheartening that there is zero attempt to actually help people get better. Simply shove them through the cattle chute, let them take a look at the final boss and push them out the other end with a cookie.

Which can likely be solved with an increase in LFR difficulty and mechanics that they are attempting in MoP. Don't forget that Dragon Soul was LFR's debut.

[Firebert]

It's disheartening that there is zero attempt to actually help people get better. Simply shove them through the cattle chute, let them take a look at the final boss and push them out the other end with a cookie.

I've always said that LFR should be close to Normal difficulty as Blizzard dare, such that it becomes a viable achievement to show when looking for Normal PuGs.

All of the abilities that kill you (or should do enough damage to kill you) in Normal should take you down to 5% HP (Decimate) in LFR. The mechanics in LFR should be unchanged from Normal except that.

[coldfiredragon]

I personally love the LFR/LFD they are the best thing to ever happen to WoW. And I have played since TBC. People talk about some sense of community, sorry never saw it. All I ever saw was /2 DPS LFG for heroics (saved to ....)

There is not nor was there any "community" so nothing has been destroyed.

[Minetor]

Only reason i thort it was better in the old days with no lfd is cos i was in a guild that had no life and we could get a group for anything any time then i played swtor where i knew nobody and was in a lame guild LFD is best thing to happen to WoW.

[Sansnom]

When you throw people in front of a shiny new boss and strip him of all his abilities and mechanics and then give someone a shiny trophy at the end and a pat on the back you've done nothing to help them grow as a player and raider. Said LFR junkies now try to make the transition from LFR into a real raid and have zero clue about what is going on. At least in the past people would ask questions about what a boss did or would perhaps spend some time doing some outside research. This is rarely seen anymore (at least on my server) and folks who have killed Deathwing on LFR think they are the cock of the walk and don't have to bother with mechanics like stacking up for a ball bounce on Zon'ozz or pushing a purple button on Ultraxion.

That is little difference to players having the gear and stepping into a raid for the first time and not knowing what to do. People who are not afraid to ask questions before a boss will continue to do. Those that do not research the fight beforehand again will continue to do so. Likewise, RL should also ask and explain the fights to new people before a pull.

I think LFR has encouraged more people to step up to normal raiding. This can only be a good thing. There will more who fails but there will also more who succeed simply because more players are probably trying raiding after LFR.

I think too much blame has been put on the LFR.

[Minetor]

There is no question that LFR and LFD were and are colossal failures. Its no coincidence that previous expansions, before these features were implemented, were more popular and largely considered better playing experiences.

They are the main cause of all the issues with today's version of the game. And the main cause of the arcadey playstyle.

Unfortunately, its too late to remove them. And, since they are a huge cash cow, Blizzard would never do it anyway.

It has nothing to do with lfd lfr etc its not as good playing expirence because of blizz changeing dungeons raids to low trash simple layout un imaginative enviroments ulduer was the perfect balence all raids should be modeled like ulduer even down to the way you acctivated hardmodes.

[Karizee]

I think LFR was a great addition to the game, however the implementation of it was extremely flawed.

It was good in that it let casual/new players see the content and get a small taste of what raids are like. I know it's nothing at all like a real raid, but it's the perception of the *concept* of raiding.

Say you have a new player that gets swooped up by a social guild. They generally would have difficulty getting into raids and would probably be quite intimidated by them. With LFR they get a chance to get their feet wet without the undo pressure of the real deal. Little to no responsibility for performance, less stress for the new player = more accessibility to content. And after a few successful LFR experiences they might feel more comfortable with their skills and even decide to try their hand at normal mode raiding. Who knows? Possibly more raiders joining the pool of available players.

Where LFR went horribly wrong was in the loot design. As a competitive raider, you are pretty much required to do everything possible to maximize your character. With the upgraded set bonuses that LFR loot provided, both normal and hard mode raiders were in LFR every week until they filled out their empty slots.

This has been fuel on the bonfire of the elitist/casual debate. Raiders resent having to run faceroll content with "noobs"; casuals resent having their lack of skill pointed out to them. Add to this a ridiculously deficient loot distribution system and you have a recipe for disaster.

Another thing that ruined the tier for the raiders was completing the content on ultra easy mode before they even stepped foot into a normal, then having to do it week after week after week, thus leading to burnout and the overall feeling of the game getting too easy.

I hope they don't make the same game design mistakes in the future - let the casuals have their fun and their free epics, just don't overlap gear upgrades with heroic tier gear.


LFD is a whole 'nother bag of cats. There's no question that it's contributed to poor gamesmanship with the lack of accountability and anonyminity of random cross-realm grouping. Again, what we have is an implementation issue. By creating the LFD tool, Blizzard is postponing addressing low pop realm issues. I'm sure for many low pop people, LFD is great - being grouped with people you will never see again, who may talk poorly to you and who will probably need on your upgrades is better than not getting a group together at all.

For most people however, getting a group together before LFD was not that big of a deal. As you grouped with people on your realm, your friend's list grew - it was not uncommon for everyone in the group to "friend" each other after a successful run. This had an appreciable effect on server communities; we policed ourselves, formed bonds, recruited new raiders and became vested in our communities.

Blizzard should allow people to transfer off low pop realms much like they did when they set up the Brazilian realms and let those players free transfer. People who choose to stay on the low pop for whatever reason (computer limitations/rare farming/not wanting to name change) could do so.

I do think that with the majority of players being level capped, that it makes sense for LFD to stay in place for low level toons. I also think the cross-realm zone idea for low level players is a step in the right direction, but it certainly does not address the scope of low pop issues.