[Megathread] Elder Scrolls Online

[Deleted]

Best/most immersive leveling experience I have ever had in an MMO - SWTOR
Least interesting end game experience once I reached max level - SWTOR
Don't even play the F2P version now.

WoW is terrible at the leveling experience for sure. TERRIBLE. I mean...who wants to read pages of quest text. Put a crowbar in our wallet and higher a few voice actors for God's sake. But at least there is something interesting to do in WoW once you get to the "elder game." Therefore, I've faithfully paid my WoW sub fee for ~9 years.

Well here is my experience:
I played right from the begining after Launch and have never set a food into Molten Core or beyond in classic.
All I did there were dungeons, leveling, PvP

In BC I have never set a food into one raid, all I did were dungeons, PvP crafting, farming rep and so on.

Wotlk was my first addon which I have started raiding, Naxx, Ulduar, ToC and I found it to be extremely boring and repetive.

I have payed my subs aswell but most of the time I have not used the so called endgame content WoW is so much focussed on.

[Kaval]

I have enjoyed the game very much so far. As others have pointed out it does have it's flaws though they are all things that can be fixed.

What I'm wondering is why they haven't given us more information on the endgame. There seems to be quite a lot of people who are concerned about it so giving out more details on it to alleviate the worry would be a good idea.

[Sharuko]

And considering you get the experience of other factions on a singular character (from what I recall) in ESO, there's not even that. There needs to be that hook for longterm engagement and replayability, because without it a MMO is in pretty big trouble.

The problem with SWTOR is you couldn't progress the same character if you wanted to experience a different faction, they emphasized making alts. Legacy points yes, but same character progression, no. In ESO you can level in the other faction zones with the same character and there will be a separate progression system that way in which you can actually earn veteran gear.

Now if you hit 50 and want something to do, instead of dailies you can do the other factions quests. It probably will get boring but there is a progression system tied to 50+/50++ questing. There will also be PvP and PvE progression.

But as always in these types of MMOs, what will keep the top players around are the large scale PvE encounters. The average joe might not care for it but the top players do matter. ESO might live or die on adventure zones.

[Greevir]

I have enjoyed the game very much so far. As others have pointed out it does have it's flaws though they are all things that can be fixed.

What I'm wondering is why they haven't given us more information on the endgame. There seems to be quite a lot of people who are concerned about it so giving out more details on it to alleviate the worry would be a good idea.

I would like to know the basic systems of endgame. But I definitely don't want to know what the endgame is. I don't want to know who we are fighting, where we are fighting it, how we are fighting it or why we are fighting it. I want to find that out in-game.

[Deleted]

The thing is that the majority of players are the "average Joe".

While the progression oriented hardcore raiders are very small minority.
I have always wondered why so many ressources are spend on this small amount of players and then used Raidbrowser + NO alternative content to force everyone into it rather than developing and catering to the normal players who woudl maybe rather enjoy more questing and exploring, here and there a dungeon.

[Kaval]

I would like to know the basic systems of endgame. But I definitely don't want to know what the endgame is. I don't want to know who we are fighting, where we are fighting it, how we are fighting it or why we are fighting it. I want to find that out in-game.

That's exactly what I mean. They just need to give us more information on the workings of the endgame, not plot details or the like.

[Deleted]

Couldn't care less.
Games that are 100 % focused on endgame are WoW for example, feel free to play that.

I'd rather have a game where endgame is not the defining factor but character development, questing and exploring. The journey as someone has pointed it out.


Games can be centered on things beside raiding and still be great and time consumeing.

yes it is important,
but what I feel most important for mmos is, are content updates, frequent updates that is.
gamers must feel devs are working hard on this game, stuff must be added, bugs fixed.
I know there are few thing in the works already, like dark brotherhood and thieves guilds, morality system, thats good ( I would love to get some archer type class too).

If ESO maintain some nice pace of it in first year, game will be huge success no doubt about it.

[notorious98]

I assume that like in every other MMO, gold will inflate pretty fast.

I had 5k gold at the end of story so far (lvl 14), but for crafting, they were pretty fast gone. I know from my archer that i had to buy a bow for 1k gold because i didn't get a bow for a very long time. Archers really seem to be in disadvantage so far, so if i go allout archer, i'll have to reconsider crafting or buying a bow.

I think that by lvl 25-30, you will for sure be able to buy your mount if you don't spend too much gold on stuff like items from vendors.

I only got to level 8 and I found at least 2 green quality bows by that point. RNG is a bitch.

[Kashii]

Well here is my experience:
I played right from the begining after Launch and have never set a food into Molten Core or beyond in classic.
All I did there were dungeons, leveling, PvP

In BC I have never set a food into one raid, all I did were dungeons, PvP crafting, farming rep and so on.

Wotlk was my first addon which I have started raiding, Naxx, Ulduar, ToC and I found it to be extremely boring and repetive.

I have payed my subs aswell but most of the time I have not used the so called endgame content WoW is so much focussed on.

Hold up...you said you found raiding repetitive but not farming rep, dungeons or crafting? Sorry but that just doesn't seem credible...at all. Perhaps you just played more in Wrath and you didn't find those other activities repetitive in other expansions because you didn't play often. But I have to call BS at rep farming not being repetitive.

[Sharuko]

The thing is that the majority of players are the "average Joe".

While the progression oriented hardcore raiders are very small minority.
I have always wondered why so many ressources are spend on this small amount of players and then used Raidbrowser + NO alternative content to force everyone into it rather than developing and catering to the normal players who woudl maybe rather enjoy more questing and exploring, here and there a dungeon.

I know the vast majority of the players are average joe's, I am one of them I honestly don't care about large scale PvE content but I know the importance of them. My point is you have to keep the top players (top 20% not top 1% not actual numbers but point is the most dedicated players) satisfied because they are the evangelists of your game. It is important to keep that group satisfied, because if they are not everyone and their mother will know about it. And if they like it everyone and their mother will know about it.

[notorious98]

I have payed my subs aswell but most of the time I have not used the so called endgame content WoW is so much focussed on.

Again, you're equating "endgame content" with "raiding". Think of it as the rectangle and square. A rectangle is a square, but a square is not a rectangle. In the same fashion, raiding is endgame, but endgame is not raiding.

[Deleted]

Hold up...you said you found raiding repetitive but not farming rep, dungeons or crafting? Sorry but that just doesn't seem credible...at all. Perhaps you just played more in Wrath and you didn't find those other activities repetitive in other expansions because you didn't play often. But I have to call BS at rep farming not being repetitive.

It is the other way round.
In Classic and BC I was a student and had plenty of time and I played alot.

No I didn't find it repetive because I was not forced to do it with one single pattern like in MoP (Daily quests).

I could run dungeons, farm these small little icons, kill mobs or do daily quests to get that rep. Whatever I did it had some form of pregression for me and my character without raiding.
Also during that time, items and epics were not thrown at you like nothing. You had to do something for them (well beside if you raided) but for average people getting an epic was a bit of work but it was fun.

That obviously changed with Wotlk and then the addons beyond.

I know the vast majority of the players are average joe's, I am one of them I honestly don't care about large scale PvE content but I know the importance of them. My point is you have to keep the top players (top 20% not top 1% not actual numbers but point is the most dedicated players) satisfied because they are the evangelists of your game. It is important to keep that group satisfied, because if they are not everyone and their mother will know about it. And if they like it everyone and their mother will know about it.

Only if your game is centered around that aspect.
If the game is, right from the beginning, not focused around this type of gameplay those players are just not attracted but others are.

It is just a question of what people do you want in your game. And obviously every other MMO before wanted the WoW crowed because they hoped for the money 5 million+ subs are creating. But this strategy obviously didn't work.

I can tell you why: There is no need for a game that is like WoW because there still is WoW. Why go with thy copy if you could get the original which is far more advanced, developed and experienced?

In order to survive as an MMO you have to cater towards those players wow are not catering to, the playerbase that feels abandonned and betrayed from WoW.

[wombinator04]

I enjoyed WoW's questing a lot due to the lore and just how good the game looked at the time(still does). But ever since Cata my love for WoW's questing has gone down a bit. MoP's questing was horrific, cata was soo much better.

With ESO, I'm expecting great questing, character building, and gorgeous graphics. The game has fulfilled on all 3 of those imo, some people don't agree though.
Also the added bonus of Cyrodiil just seals the deal for ESO.

[Kashii]

I was excited to finally be able to afford a level 60 mount...but I don't recall farming Tyr's hand for gold being particularly fun.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

I will blow everyone's mind by suggesting that there's nothing wrong with playing a game for a few months, enjoying the journey, and then quitting once you're bored. People should try it out! Not every game needs to be a life replacement that occupies all of your free time for 10 years. No game will ever be "The One."

This clearly isn't ideal for the company (and, incidentally, is the biggest issue with the sub model), but for the player it's great. There are so many good games at this point in time that you can easily flit between them and always have something new to entertain you.

[Deleted]

I was excited to finally be able to afford a level 60 mount...but I don't recall farming Tyr's hand for gold being particularly fun.

Probably because you forced yourself to do exactly that. Farming.


I was just playing. Doing the quests in the areas even after max level, here and there a daily quest I stumpeled across.
Running dungeons, doing crafting and selling those things and so on.

I had no problem with getting gold because I just played the game. I didn't need to have that mount within a week or so. I just played an eventually I got it.

[Sharuko]

Only if your game is centered around that aspect.
If the game is, right from the beginning, not focused around this type of gameplay those players are just not attracted but others are.

It is just a question of what people do you want in your game. And obviously every other MMO before wanted the WoW crowed because they hoped for the money 5 million+ subs are creating. But this strategy obviously didn't work.

I can tell you why: There is no need for a game that is like WoW because there still is WoW. Why go with thy copy if you could get the original which is far more advanced, developed and experienced?

In order to survive as an MMO you have to cater towards those players wow are not catering to, the playerbase that feels abandonned and betrayed from WoW.

This is just my opinion, but the pillars of the community are usually the most dedicated players. They make fansites, they make builds everyone else copies, they stream the game to millions of people a year, they talk about your game. They are invested in the game and the community, they are the influencers. The casuals will come and go, drop in and drop out. But the dedicated players make up the base, if that base is strong your game will be strong. The best way to keep dedicated players around is to give them content that takes dedication to complete, currently it is raids but if someone things of something else that would be good too.

You should always cater to casuals too, but you should also cater to the hardcore/dedicated player base. The reason I believe WoW and Eve have had longevity is because they did cater to the more dedicated player base. The casual player base is the majority and violate. Again all opinions here, but my point of view on it.

[Deleted]

I was very skeptical about ESO, after trying the beta I realized that giving a rich universe like ES a living virtual world is actually a good idea. Quests were fun, but the areas felt too much of "hubs". There were some breath takingly beautiful moments with the music and scenery...

[derpkitteh]

there's another thing i think they should have done. they should have used gw2's personal crafting nodes. running around for 3 hours just because you can't find a single node due to over-gathering, or some jackass running up and stealing it while you fight for it, is not fun.

[Deleted]

This is just my opinion, but the pillars of the community are usually the most dedicated players. They make fansites, they make builds everyone else copies, they stream the game to millions of people a year, they talk about your game. They are invested in the game and the community, they are the influencers. The casuals will come and go, drop in and drop out. But the dedicated players make up the base, if that base is strong your game will be strong. The best way to keep dedicated players around is to give them content that takes dedication to complete, currently it is raids but if someone things of something else that would be good too.

You should always cater to casuals too, but you should also cater to the hardcore/dedicated player base.

Of course it is a valid opinion, mine is just a different one.

But WoW was big and had alot of subs in times where there were no streamers, the biggest site dedicated to WoWs items was Thottbot and videos were made actually pretty rarely but spread across various types of gameplay.

Back in those days there were even less players raiding, most players in cata and I can safely assume aroudn 90%, didn't see any raids at all and still played , made content for WoW and so on.

Yes I still see endgame content as raids but nobody has yet given me a better example.



What I do remember alot and seen a lot of videos about are for example huge PvP battles in Tarrens Mill. Content that was not created by devs but by the players who found a way to make endgame content themselves.

Now what do we have in terms of PvP? Scripted battleground that are repetive and unfun.


What I am trying to say is, that if you have a world that has some freedom, players will find a way to make more out of it that it was intended, there is not necessarily a need for that much endgame content that is delivered today.