Primal elementalist

[DechCJC]

So, as far as I understand, Blizzard wants every talent to be a choice that everyone should be considering, right?

So, having said that - Seeing fire/earth elementals aren't usable in arena, would this talent make an exception for that rule? Or would it just be the talent that no PvPing shaman takes for that reason?

Has blizz said anything on this, and if not; thoughts on what may happen?

Sorry if this has been addressed before, it's late - Took a quick look and didn't notice anything.

(http://mop.wowhead.com/mists-of-pand...-calculator#sx - Level 90 talent, for those who don't know what it is)

[Taalyn]

The cooldowns on the elementals were lowered, so they should be useable in arenas.

[Endus]

So, as far as I understand, Blizzard wants every talent to be a choice that everyone should be considering, right?

So, having said that - Seeing fire/earth elementals aren't usable in arena, would this talent make an exception for that rule? Or would it just be the talent that no PvPing shaman takes for that reason?

Like Rahdik said, Arena shuts down spells with 10 minute CDs or longer. The new elemental totems have 5 minute cooldowns; they should work in Arenas.

However, even if they didn't, that wouldn't mean there was a problem. The design intent is that every talent have situational use, giving you reason to switch based on circumstances. Arena is a very narrow situational perspective. It's absolutely fine for a talent to be completely useless in Arena play.

[ThePenguinFreak]

I agree that blizzard would not let one of the level 90 talents be completely unusable in high-end pvp.

I would like to know if the talent will remove the cool downs for the elementals to give permanent pets, or just make them stronger while they're active.

[Mithgroth]

However, even if they didn't, that wouldn't mean there was a problem. The design intent is that every talent have situational use, giving you reason to switch based on circumstances. Arena is a very narrow situational perspective. It's absolutely fine for a talent to be completely useless in Arena play.

I disagree.
The design intent cannot be to choose whichever fits best to your situation / environment. The current design is like that, and Blizzard is changing this design. Current talent trees have three types of talents: PvE, PvP, Utility. In MoP trees, every talent competes with other talents in their tier and there are only 6 of them, making each decision valuable.

MoP talents in each tier mostly have a common topic (Healing tier for example) and they just ask you which way you want to achieve it, instead of what you want to achieve as the current talents ask.

You are not meant to switch them all the time unless you are unhappy with them. Otherwise it would just be a whack-a-mole game where you try to take the best talents all the time. And there are no talents labeled for PvP - PvE.

As a conclusion, since there are only a few of them and they are only meant to change the way you play, it is not fine for a talent to be completely useless in Arena play (which is not a very narrow perspective of the game since there are world tournaments for it). They should be as close as possible to each other to force players to make choices for their playstyles, instead of copying builds from websites.

On topic:
Yes, they have made Elementals 5 minutes cooldown so they can be summoned in arenas. The talent is amazing but still not convincing as long as they are leashed to a totem. Although they become pets and they can be controlled, they will still have very limited mobility and will despawn when the totem which can be killed with a white swing or two eventhough it is glyphed, dies.

[Endus]

I disagree.
The design intent cannot be to choose whichever fits best to your situation / environment. The current design is like that, and Blizzard is changing this design. Current talent trees have three types of talents: PvE, PvP, Utility. In MoP trees, every talent competes with other talents in their tier and there are only 6 of them, making each decision valuable.

The current system is NOT based on situational choices, it's based on a cookie cutter "ideal performance" mathematically determinable solution, with a few points left over which might indeed be used for situational choices. The bulk of the talent points weren't "choices", though.

So yes, you're choosing based on which you prefer based on the situation and such.

You are not meant to switch them all the time unless you are unhappy with them. Otherwise it would just be a whack-a-mole game where you try to take the best talents all the time. And there are no talents labeled for PvP - PvE.

They've stated they're making talents as easy to change as glyphs, for precisely that reason; so that you can switch them on a fight-by-fight basis in the field and not be constrained by two pre-set talent specs.

As a conclusion, since there are only a few of them and they are only meant to change the way you play, it is not fine for a talent to be completely useless in Arena play (which is not a very narrow perspective of the game since there are world tournaments for it).

It is a very narrow portion of the game. You're confusing breadth with importance. Arena has a very tight design, with heavy constraints, which means your choices will be similarly constrained by the dynamics of that gameplay. Battlegrounds have greater variety, since you can face not only different classes but different numbers, and everything isn't reset after a fight; you get to deal with the aftermath of having blown your cooldowns and trying to survive without them.

That doesn't mean Arena isn't important, it just means it's a very strictly regulated form of play. Which is fine, but it also makes it more likely that you'll make certain choices due to that regulation.

They should be as close as possible to each other to force players to make choices for their playstyles, instead of copying builds from websites.

And "competitive arena play" is a playstyle, is my point.

[rudeboi]

I'm a bit underwhelmed by the new talent system despite being technically superior to the one it's replacing. I like lots of colourful buttons that also make my character stronger. I wish they'd made the new talent system with colorful buttons at least.

[Northy]

Like Rahdik said, Arena shuts down spells with 10 minute CDs or longer. The new elemental totems have 5 minute cooldowns; they should work in Arenas.

However, even if they didn't, that wouldn't mean there was a problem. The design intent is that every talent have situational use, giving you reason to switch based on circumstances. Arena is a very narrow situational perspective. It's absolutely fine for a talent to be completely useless in Arena play.

Haven't played WoW is a long time so forgive my ignorance, but isn't Bloodlust only 5 min cooldown and not useable in arena?

[Endus]

Haven't played WoW is a long time so forgive my ignorance, but isn't Bloodlust only 5 min cooldown and not useable in arena?

Yes, but it was specifically denied, it wasn't part of the greater "no long CDs" rule. There's plenty of other 5 minute CDs that ARE allowed.

[Deleted]

Haven't played WoW is a long time so forgive my ignorance, but isn't Bloodlust only 5 min cooldown and not useable in arena?

Like Endus said, it was an exception. Its a 5 minute cooldown and thats why it USED to be able to be used in Arena, but Blizzard realised teams with it had far to big an advantage and because they were giving it to Mages and BM hunters too it would be too much of a required spell, so it was banned from Arena. Its an exception to the rule.

[Weerra]

will despawn when the totem which can be killed with a white swing or two eventhough it is glyphed, dies.

Elemental totems are much tougher than normal totems, though. Even on live.

[Deleted]

Elemental totems are much tougher than normal totems, though. Even on live.

If I remember rightly a recent build boosted the health of the totem to 170k ish for both of them, which I think is the health of the elemental itself. If I were a better or less lazy person I'd go and check this but meh

[Deleted]

If I remember rightly a recent build boosted the health of the totem to 170k ish for both of them, which I think is the health of the elemental itself. If I were a better or less lazy person I'd go and check this but meh

Earth Elemental Totem - Now summons Earth Totem with 120,123 health at the feet of the caster.
Fire Elemental Totem - Now summons a Fire Totem with 120,123 health at the feet of the caster.

Thats what your thinking of, but you can then also put 5% of your total health on top of that too. They aren't in any way super squishy.

[Deleted]

I think it's the *base* CD of the spell that matters. That's why you still can't use Doomguard as a lock with 2p tier 13 like you couldn't use Army of the Dead in WotLK as unholy (cooldown was 7 min).

[Deleted]

I think it's the *base* CD of the spell that matters. That's why you still can't use Doomguard as a lock with 2p tier 13 like you couldn't use Army of the Dead in WotLK as unholy (cooldown was 7 min).

The base cooldown of Elementals in Mists is 5 minutes. They *should* be useable in arena. However, as Endus said, even if they aren't its not the end of the world, arena is only a very small part of the game with very strict rules.

[Deleted]

Earth Elemental Totem - Now summons Earth Totem with 120,123 health at the feet of the caster.
Fire Elemental Totem - Now summons a Fire Totem with 120,123 health at the feet of the caster.

Thats what your thinking of, but you can then also put 5% of your total health on top of that too. They aren't in any way super squishy.

I present to you, a better or less lazy person.

[Deleted]

i can confirm that u can use Fire Ele and Earth Ele in arenas in MoP tested it in beta pretty fun XD