Jaina's Newfound Hatred of the Horde

[Darth-Piekus]

What I am trying to say is that currently 2/3 of the Western and all of the Eastern Plaguelands are controlled by the Argent Crusade and the Knights of the Ebon Blade. If the Forsaken want to conquer the Eastern Kingdoms they will eventually fight them.

[Itisamuh]

If you level on the Alliance side, they attack the Quel'Danil lodge and are stoped by the Draenei and High elves there. But yes they get what they came for.



Yes the Ebon Blade isn't better than the Forsaken, but blizzard stated they are watching Sylvanas and the Forsaken closely now. Which is ironic, since they have no problems killing innocents if they are in their way.

On the contrary, I think it makes perfect sense that they're wary of Sylvanas and the Forsaken. The last thing they want to see is another Lich King and Scourge equivalent, which is pretty much what they'd be if they got too out of hand. They're probably more touchy to the whole idea than just about anyone else.

[Trassk]

Please can we get this back off the forsaken/lordearon debate, its like trying to have a lore debate on scrolls of lore but one poster, who will remain nameless here, keeps turning all war debates into a forsaken argument.

The only question I have is, will Jaina become a stance figure in the war, or will she go even further and when peace is to come because of Anduin and the Pandaren, will her belief turn back to peace, or will she carry on trying to war on the horde.

I also want to know what Anduin will play a part in Jaina's story, since in the shattering he formed a bond with her, almost like an aunt figure.

[Count Zero]

What I am trying to say is that currently 2/3 of the Western and all of the Eastern Plaguelands are controlled by the Argent Crusade and the Knights of the Ebon Blade. If the Forsaken want to conquer the Eastern Kingdoms they will eventually fight them.

... unless the Ebon Blade decide they have more in common with the Forsaken than with the Argent Crusade. Just sayin'.

[RyanEX]

Please can we get this back off the forsaken/lordearon debate, its like trying to have a lore debate on scrolls of lore but one poster, who will remain nameless here, keeps turning all war debates into a forsaken argument.

The only question I have is, will Jaina become a stance figure in the war, or will she go even further and when peace is to come because of Anduin and the Pandaren, will her belief turn back to peace, or will she carry on trying to war on the horde.

I also want to know what Anduin will play a part in Jaina's story, since in the shattering he formed a bond with her, almost like an aunt figure.

For the Alliance to lay siege to Org, working with the Horde, with the purpose of ousting Garrosh and not wiping it off the face of the map strongly implies that

A) Anduin gets through to his father and Jaina that it's not the orcs fault (again) and that they can't be punished for it (despite the fact that they backed him all through Cata)

B) Varian's High King trials are completed (I'm still waiting for that since I don't think we've seen anything about it in the beta yet) and he exercises his right as the now official leader of the Alliance to talk some sense into Jaina. If anything this would be humerous just because of irony.

C) Jaina's unwilling to listen to him, telling him how she believed that for X years there could be peace, and that as a kid who's only just reached puberty he's in no position to lecture her.

[Combatbutler]

Please can we get this back off the forsaken/lordearon debate, its like trying to have a lore debate on scrolls of lore but one poster, who will remain nameless here, keeps turning all war debates into a forsaken argument.

The only question I have is, will Jaina become a stance figure in the war, or will she go even further and when peace is to come because of Anduin and the Pandaren, will her belief turn back to peace, or will she carry on trying to war on the horde.

I also want to know what Anduin will play a part in Jaina's story, since in the shattering he formed a bond with her, almost like an aunt figure.

Jaina will no doubt push for war in MoP and Anduin will be most likely shocked and sad about her becoming this aggressive. Jaina will calm down at the end of the expansion, Thrall will most likely play a role in it, at least I hope so. She will accept peace, but I doubt she will ever back it as strong as she used to.

[checking facts]

I hope evil jaina uses the shards of frostmourne to empower herself and becomes a new boss

[Combatbutler]

I hope evil jaina uses the shards of frostmourne to empower herself and becomes a new boss

Naw someone else has those shards, we will gather them in a few expasion to craft a new shiny legendary, mark my words.

[RyanEX]

Jaina will no doubt push for war in MoP and Anduin will be most likely shocked and sad about her becoming this aggressive. Jaina will calm down at the end of the expansion, Thrall will most likely play a role in it, at least I hope so. She will accept peace, but I doubt she will ever back it as strong as she used to.

No...just no...enough of thrall. Let him stick with dealing with his upcoming family. Let's have a situation resolved without him playing a massive role.

[Combatbutler]

No...just no...enough of thrall. Let him stick with dealing with his upcoming family. Let's have a situation resolved without him playing a massive role.

How else do you want to resolve it then? The only Orc Jaina might not kill right now is Thrall and I doubt Anduin alone can change her mind. All he has to do is have a conversation with her, which can be covered in a book or a small cut scene.

[RyanEX]

How else do you want to resolve it then? The only Orc Jaina might not kill right now is Thrall and I doubt Anduin alone can change her mind. All he has to do is have a conversation with her, which can be covered in a book or a small cut scene.

point 1. Maybe she hasn't gone full on warmonger. Perhaps what was said was said in the heat of the moment and she only wants Garrosh's head on a platter.

point 2. Malfurion is still around and he played a big part in helping Varian get his shit together.

point 3. Varian knows what it's like to have rage rule you and since he supposedly gets his shit together in MoP who better to help her chill than someone who experineced it first hand.

point 4. Anduin gets her to chill (my least favourite outcome, but hey, he's been having a lot of screentime).

Thrall may be the only orc she won't PoM Pyro on sight, be his is NOT a necessity to get her to calm down. Doing that would be a cheap way out and would likely lead to even more backlash since, despite his popularity, we did get more than enough of his greatness thrown in our faces in Cata.

[Arthur-the-exalted]

Not to mention they are missing limbs and such

Can you imagine the smell when Forsaken come to visist the Horde in Kalimdor?
Their rotting flesh combined with the desert heat??!?!?! Good God

---------- Post added 2012-06-05 at 09:24 PM ----------


theres also the fact that the Forsaken are not powerful enough to take on all of Azeroth all by itself

The Forsaken and the rest of the Horde need each other so they can pool their respetive military power to match the Alliance

---------- Post added 2012-06-05 at 09:28 PM ----------


well thats a very touchy topic

It depends on whether you consider Forsaken as "people"
and whether ou should just committ genocide against them

The Alliance dont really consider undead as people, hence why they dont accept the Forsaken saying Lorderon is theirs

The Horde need the Forsaken for political and military reasons

its not genocide to kill whats already dead ^___^

---------- Post added 2012-06-06 at 10:51 AM ----------

That's not a fact. I think the Forsaken could probably take over at least the eastern kingdoms if they really wanted. Come to think of it, all things considered they are probably the most powerful army there is in Azeroth, more powerful that that army stormwind hides somewhere only rivaled by the Scourge. Aside the plague which is the most leathal weapon, more lethal than the belf mana bombs, Sylvanas can also raise the dead to join her ranks, so esentially by the time she reaches Storwind and Ironforge her army would be ... well, really numerous. Plus the belfs would back them up, if not out of loialty for their Alliance with Sylvanas then certainly out of fear, and they'd probably be killed anyway, collateral damage and all that.

Short version - Forsaken = Undead army that fights really dirty using biological weapons and use the enemy's dead to bolster their ranks.

They would come into conflict with the argent crusade....and the ashbringer....if it beat frostmourn....and the lich king...sylvanas has no chance..the light always beat the darkness

[Verdugo]

its not genocide to kill whats already dead ^___^

Funny that you make excuses to wipe out one of the races. You are same as the forsaken, deal with it.

[Arthur-the-exalted]

Knights of the Ebon Blade are no carebears, they helped in battle against the scourge for their own reasons. Should forsaken attack Argents, they wouldnt care. As for Argent Crusade... without Ebon Blade, the crusade in northrend would fail.

They would care, the undeads bombs can kill undead to...they would not like to be in that line of fire.

---------- Post added 2012-06-06 at 10:53 AM ----------

Please can we get this back off the forsaken/lordearon debate, its like trying to have a lore debate on scrolls of lore but one poster, who will remain nameless here, keeps turning all war debates into a forsaken argument.

The only question I have is, will Jaina become a stance figure in the war, or will she go even further and when peace is to come because of Anduin and the Pandaren, will her belief turn back to peace, or will she carry on trying to war on the horde.

I also want to know what Anduin will play a part in Jaina's story, since in the shattering he formed a bond with her, almost like an aunt figure.

Anduin gets kidnapped by horde at some point...

Apparently as part of the escalating war between the Alliance Alliance and the Horde Horde that has extended to the continent of Pandaria, Anduin has been captured and held prisoner at Grookin Hill, east edge of the Jade Forest.[6]

---------- Post added 2012-06-06 at 10:54 AM ----------

Funny that you make excuses to wipe out one of the races. You are same as the forsaken, deal with it.

the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, there are not a race, they were once, all they are now are rotten corpses that want nothing but death to the rest of the living.

[Verdugo]

[/COLOR] the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, there are not a race, they were once, all they are now are rotten corpses that want nothing but death to the rest of the living.

You remind me of certain guy that was chancellor of the germany few decades ago.


Dont try to mask it behind insults.

[Darth-Piekus]

Correction. The Knights of the Ebon Blade rebelled against Arthas in order to be free from him. They were against the Scourge and his ways to destroy life and twist it after. They are completely different from the Forsaken not to mention that they are allies with the Argent Crusade. Lastly Koltira a member of the Ebon Blade was taken by Sylvannas to be changed under a procedure that is no better than what the Lich King did. Combine all those facts with the fact that Sylvannas is holding a secret in Undercity which we don't know yet and you get the picture.

[Verdugo]

Correction. The Knights of the Ebon Blade rebelled against Arthas in order to be free from him. They were against the Scourge and his ways to destroy life and twist it after. They are completely different from the Forsaken not to mention that they are allies with the Argent Crusade. Lastly Koltira a member of the Ebon Blade was taken by Sylvannas to be changed under a procedure that is no better than what the Lich King did. Combine all those facts with the fact that Sylvannas is holding a secret in Undercity which we don't know yet and you get the picture.

Thats just your perverted opinion about Ebon Blade. They did it out of revenge and were happy to employ same methods as scourge. As for Koltira, that idiot joined Forsaken operations, disobeyed orders and expected that nothing would happen? Knights would propably renounce that failure.

[Combatbutler]

Correction. The Knights of the Ebon Blade rebelled against Arthas in order to be free from him. They were against the Scourge and his ways to destroy life and twist it after. They are completely different from the Forsaken not to mention that they are allies with the Argent Crusade. Lastly Koltira a member of the Ebon Blade was taken by Sylvannas to be changed under a procedure that is no better than what the Lich King did. Combine all those facts with the fact that Sylvannas is holding a secret in Undercity which we don't know yet and you get the picture.

They ressurect the dead to fight for them on the battlefield as canonfodder, they torture, they use the exact same methods the scourge used. They only joined the Argent Crusade because they had a common enemy, they do not care for honor or the living in particular, they are about vengeance, nothing more and nothing less. Koltira joined the Forsaken and broke some of their rules and as such is punished accordingly.

[Arthur-the-exalted]

You remind me of certain guy that was chancellor of the germany few decades ago.


Dont try to mask it behind insults.

you just seem mad that me and king varian almost recaptured the undercity lol, despite who i remind you of, the undead are evil, vile, and are creations of dark magic, ask them what happens when they are struck with holy light...

---------- Post added 2012-06-06 at 11:23 AM ----------

Correction. The Knights of the Ebon Blade rebelled against Arthas in order to be free from him. They were against the Scourge and his ways to destroy life and twist it after. They are completely different from the Forsaken not to mention that they are allies with the Argent Crusade. Lastly Koltira a member of the Ebon Blade was taken by Sylvannas to be changed under a procedure that is no better than what the Lich King did. Combine all those facts with the fact that Sylvannas is holding a secret in Undercity which we don't know yet and you get the picture.

Thank you for seeing that the forsaken are evil and should be stopped.

[Combatbutler]

you just seem mad that me and king varian almost recaptured the undercity lol, despite who i remind you of, the undead are evil, vile, and are creations of dark magic, ask them what happens when they are struck with holy light...

What happens if a paladin is hit by a shadowbolt? The argument can be entirely turned around depending on your point of view.

Good and evil are labels created by humanity, and constantly change over time. Not to mention history is written by the victor.