Sivir, all dat hate.

[Toxigen]

Will sivir be remodeled too? :O Brb purchasing nurse sivir > (And ye taric is nice too but meh i simply miss the mana from soraka O.o )

You don't really need the mana...Taric stun guarantees that Q hits twice...do that twice and they're in big-time danger.

[NotValidAnymore]

Brb purchasing nurse sivir >

I don't think there's a Nurse Sivir skin (Akali has one though). In fact, most of the Sivir skins looks slightly outdated, though the PAX one is great.

[Deleted]

I don't think there's a Nurse Sivir skin (Akali has one though). In fact, most of the Sivir skins looks slightly outdated, though the PAX one is great.

wups i meant the bandit :P

You don't really need the mana...Taric stun guarantees that Q hits twice...do that twice and they're in big-time danger.

I don't really have trouble yet with my Q, i mostly hit it anyways. Though the assured double hit would be amazing. I could try some games with taric i guess But the mana really is nice tbf. Sometimes when i want to pressure them bigtime with like all my spells i get low, if i got a soraka i just can keep on pressuring them. As in: use Q W and E on cooldown (though i just use E on threatening enemy spells)

[Deleted]

Hmm, i'm on 83.3% win ratio on Sivir, I find her strong in lane especially to counter agressive lane combo's
using her E on the right timing can complety turn around a 2v2 fight down there: )
Yet her low range makes tf's a bit harder if they all(which they will ofc>_>)focus you.

[Kurdiern]

Actually I am talking about pre-rework. She was ban worthy. Her middle lane was rough to go against. One in E, max out W, then Q. Her bounce was insane, all you had to do was have some AR pen and AS runes, for an easy first blood. You couldn't even get near her, it was constant life loss. Then if you could at least hit some skill shots, no middle could hang unless it was like Brand or Cass, because her range was very short. She played almost EXACTLY like Moon Rider from DOTA, or Luna to most people.

Did you actually play around with her prework? Because if you did, then why wasn't she ban worthy? I mean seriously? I got my first pentakill with prework Sivir. I had multiple quadra and triple kills. She was insane!

It's easy to hide behind snide remarks without actually countering what people said.

She got reworked, because her middle lane was insane. She got increased range, and a nerf to her W BECAUSE people weren't playing her as a bottom lane, the rework was to get her BACK in the bottom lane. Seriously, I'm laughing so hard, did you actually play during her rework?

Oh, you're serious...Pre-rework Sivir was garbage. She had one purpose and one purpose only, that was pushing. She couldn't do anything else. The fact you think Sivir, pre-rework, could stand up to a Morgana or a even Lux in mid lane is fucking ridiuclous. I don't know what low level dream world you played in, but you have your head on backwards.

Yes, lets MAX W. Not Q, which pre-rework was only good early game. Let's max her W, which needs to be leveled to even get additional fucking bounces. Let's ignore the fact it tears through mana and does like 25% reduced damage per bounce. You do dick damage early game, a 25% reduction on each bounce fucking TICKLES. "Oh boy, I do 70 damage with a 25% reduction each bounce! I CAN TOTALLY LIKE WHITLE THEM DOWN WITH ATTACKS THAT DO 20 DAMAGE!" Are you really suggesting that Sivir can run up creeps with her shitty 425 range and "HARASS DOWN" a Lux who could just fuckign run up and ignore her shitty pathetic reduced bounce damage and blow her over with her incredibly stronger damage? A 22second CD on spellshield can only help so much on a fundamentally weak champion.

The fact you try to justify how good she was with personal anecdotes of quadras and pentas against shitty players is a horrible argument. She was fucking garbage expect for pushing. She got buffs because she was outdated and needed to be touched so that she would actually be picked and not considered a troll pick. It's easy to hide behind ignorance and lack of skill though.

[Jokerfiend]

Didn't I say she had a hard time against Brand or Cass, and of course Lux would be in that category was well, though, I didn't know I needed to list ALL the champs she would have a hard time against. Yes, I agree with you.

Yes, and I said it was good for first blood, which is early game? Then if you are a decent player, first blood is usually enough to get your AD or AS ahead of the curve, which in turn, turned W in a massive harass, for free, on attack. So thanks for agreeing with me.

Now let me ask you something, Why was she reworked? She was fine, most people that played her regularly, that I knew, said she was fine. Though THEY ALL PLAYED HER MIDDLE. The rework was to get her back on bottom. Her range was too short, which allowed hard AD ranges to chew on her, so then they HAD to nerf W to a spell rather than a toggle, because then with that kind of range W as a passive would be WAY to overpowered.

Just watch the summoner showcase. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYdroKp6-ts Guess where he lanes at?

Sounds like you got owned by several Sivir and you just have hate.

[Deleted]

Didn't I say she had a hard time against Brand or Cass, and of course Lux would be in that category was well, though, I didn't know I needed to list ALL the champs she would have a hard time against. Yes, I agree with you.

Yes, and I said it was good for first blood, which is early game? Then if you are a decent player, first blood is usually enough to get your AD or AS ahead of the curve, which in turn, turned W in a massive harass, for free, on attack. So thanks for agreeing with me.

Now let me ask you something, Why was she reworked? She was fine, most people that played her regularly, that I knew, said she was fine. Though THEY ALL PLAYED HER MIDDLE. The rework was to get her back on bottom. Her range was too short, which allowed hard AD ranges to chew on her, so then they HAD to nerf W to a spell rather than a toggle, because then with that kind of range W as a passive would be WAY to overpowered.

Just watch the summoner showcase. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYdroKp6-ts Guess where he lanes at?

Sounds like you got owned by several Sivir and you just have hate.

So you are saying that Sivir was played mid lane because a guy that is known for jungling Lulu player her there?

[NotValidAnymore]

I am pretty sure that "jungle Lulu" thing was just a joke...

[Deleted]

So you are saying that Sivir was played mid lane because a guy that is known for jungling Lulu player her there?

I'm sure he is saying that Sivir was played mid lane because of a ton of other reasons he mentioned and used Phreak as just another one. Also, dunno if you're trolling or are simply slow(Actually I'm quite sure I do know considering your nick, but nvm.), but jungle Lulu was an obvious joke on Phreak's part.

[Deleted]

Sivir + Soraka bot = win 100% Seriously, such a DANG OP combination.

Taric is good too. Stun + W, Sivir with Q and few auto attacks. Good combo.

I'd say the reason why Sivir is not very popular is because she's somewhat difficult to play and her ult doesn't fit in all team comps. In a double AP team that ult isn't as effective. You also need some knowledge of the game and reactions to use E as well as possible, and also her really low range and no real escape skill makes playing her as good as possible harder than some other champs.

[Kurdiern]

Didn't I say she had a hard time against Brand or Cass, and of course Lux would be in that category was well, though, I didn't know I needed to list ALL the champs she would have a hard time against. Yes, I agree with you.

Yes, and I said it was good for first blood, which is early game? Then if you are a decent player, first blood is usually enough to get your AD or AS ahead of the curve, which in turn, turned W in a massive harass, for free, on attack. So thanks for agreeing with me.

Now let me ask you something, Why was she reworked? She was fine, most people that played her regularly, that I knew, said she was fine. Though THEY ALL PLAYED HER MIDDLE. The rework was to get her back on bottom. Her range was too short, which allowed hard AD ranges to chew on her, so then they HAD to nerf W to a spell rather than a toggle, because then with that kind of range W as a passive would be WAY to overpowered.

Just watch the summoner showcase. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYdroKp6-ts Guess where he lanes at?

Sounds like you got owned by several Sivir and you just have hate.

"Of course," Lux, Yes. I see; any decent mage would shit all over Sivir. I never said anything about Brand or Cass. And Lux is more support orientated than Brand and Cass anyway, so I fail to see this obvious connection. She loses against pretty much every mage mid pre-rework.

Excuse me? Stop trying to change your words. You said getting first blood was easy with W. Getting first blood easy with W? Is that a fucking joke? You think that 25-30% reduction on each bounce is good enough "harass" to win the lane when you don't even bother to level Q? You won't get first blood with it unless, once, again, you're playing a debbie downer in mid. Good job trying to twist my words though. You won't get First Blood with bounce like you said because it's so fucking weak, you won't "get ahead of the curve" because you decided to level up W first like a moron. I never even remotely agreed with you, stop trying so damn hard to see something where there's nothing.

COOL. MORE PERSONAL ANECDOTES! These are TOTALLY helpful! She. Was. Bad. It was widely recgonzied by the community and all levels and by Riot themselves. WHY DO YOU THINK THEY REWORKED HER? Because she was BAD and needed to be UPDATED.

I don't give a fuck where she was played. Pre-rework I would play her AFK top Teemo style and just push and push all day, because that's ALL SHE COULD DO. She was GARBAGE, and I'm calling you out on the fact you actually think she could do well Mid against a good AP with half a brain. She couldn't go mid, she can't go bot, and she could barely go top. She was fucking garbage pre-rework.

Owned by several Sivir? Are you stupid? After the re-work Sivir has been one of my favorite AD's. But we're talking about pre-rework. Unless I have a time machine and decided to go back in time and play some games against her pre-rework, then how can I get owned and be mad? I've never lost against a pre-rework Sivir though. Because she was a waste of a Champion Selection 99% of the time.

P.S. Also good summoner showcase. I know Riot produced high quality and informative Summoner Showcases back then. Yeah.

[Jokerfiend]

"Of course," Lux, Yes. I see; any decent mage would shit all over Sivir. I never said anything about Brand or Cass. And Lux is more support orientated than Brand and Cass anyway, so I fail to see this obvious connection. She loses against pretty much every mage mid pre-rework.

Excuse me? Stop trying to change your words. You said getting first blood was easy with W. Getting first blood easy with W? Is that a fucking joke? You think that 25-30% reduction on each bounce is good enough "harass" to win the lane when you don't even bother to level Q? You won't get first blood with it unless, once, again, you're playing a debbie downer in mid. Good job trying to twist my words though. You won't get First Blood with bounce like you said because it's so fucking weak, you won't "get ahead of the curve" because you decided to level up W first like a moron. I never even remotely agreed with you, stop trying so damn hard to see something where there's nothing.

COOL. MORE PERSONAL ANECDOTES! These are TOTALLY helpful! She. Was. Bad. It was widely recgonzied by the community and all levels and by Riot themselves. WHY DO YOU THINK THEY REWORKED HER? Because she was BAD and needed to be UPDATED.

I don't give a fuck where she was played. Pre-rework I would play her AFK top Teemo style and just push and push all day, because that's ALL SHE COULD DO. She was GARBAGE, and I'm calling you out on the fact you actually think she could do well Mid against a good AP with half a brain. She couldn't go mid, she can't go bot, and she could barely go top. She was fucking garbage pre-rework.

Owned by several Sivir? Are you stupid? After the re-work Sivir has been one of my favorite AD's. But we're talking about pre-rework. Unless I have a time machine and decided to go back in time and play some games against her pre-rework, then how can I get owned and be mad? I've never lost against a pre-rework Sivir though. Because she was a waste of a Champion Selection 99% of the time.

P.S. Also good summoner showcase. I know Riot produced high quality and informative Summoner Showcases back then. Yeah.

It was stated exactly what I said, I said you could get first blood easily, not with Bounce in particular. I said BOUNCE, AR and AS could first blood easily. Doesn't say, you get kills with Bounce and only Bounce, read comprehension fail. Also said you had to hit skills shots, didn't I? I did. Bounce caused a nice harass if you focused on Mage mobs. She is a great pusher farmer all day long, and was easily shown in the video. I give evidence, and you give nothing but words.

Sorry you can't wrap your head around that. Now resorting to personal attacks? I knew you didn't play with her pre work, as by your posts. You have no basis of claim, your argument is completely invalid. AS YOU WEREN'T EVEN THERE.

You didn't play her or play against Sivir. How you can even bother typing anymore is just laughable. So continue Sir, I have all day.

[Kurdiern]

It was stated exactly what I said, I said you could get first blood easily, not with Bounce in particular. I said BOUNCE, AR and AS could first blood easily. Doesn't say, you get kills with Bounce and only Bounce, read comprehension fail. Also said you had to hit skills shots, didn't I? I did. Bounce caused a nice harass if you focused on Mage mobs. She is a great pusher farmer all day long, and was easily shown in the video. I give evidence, and you give nothing but words.

Sorry you can't wrap your head around that. Now resorting to personal attacks? I knew you didn't play with her pre work, as by your posts. You have no basis of claim, your argument is completely invalid. AS YOU WEREN'T EVEN THERE.

You didn't play her or play against Sivir. How you can even bother typing anymore is just laughable. So continue Sir, I have all day.

"One in E, max out W, then Q"

You max out W instead of Q. Your Q is going to do dick for damage, why even bother wasting the mana on a low level Q when you have W draining all your mana? You have an auto-attack range of 425. You think you can walk up to a mage with 425 attack range without losing a good portion of your health? Even walking up to attack the Caster Minions puts you in range of an ass-kicking. I didn't address these because I thought they were obvious. I guess I was wrong.

You look lost. Your "evidence" is like mine, except with more personal anecdotes of "I got quadras" and "my friends did good" and just poorer quality overall. If you think what you have typed is actually "evidence" then I really hope you never have to write a Research Paper or any type of work that requires your definition of "evidence."

Nice baseless claim. I played against her and as Pre-Rework. I play her Post-Rework. I literally said all she was good for is pushing. What did you just type 10 seconds ago? "She is a great pusher farmer all day long," You're just making me feel sorry for you now.

Sivir was garbage pre-rework, your little anecdotes and low level play won't change the fact she was bad and needed the re-work to make her actually not shit. This is you trying to argue against Riot and the Community as a whole. Everyone knew she needed to be looked at.

[Dempsey]

The people wo say she is bad are the people wo fail at using her E correctly.

nuff said brother

---------- Post added 2012-06-17 at 11:51 PM ----------

siv hds siver guide can show anyone why siver is so good

[Deleted]

I'm sure he is saying that Sivir was played mid lane because of a ton of other reasons he mentioned and used Phreak as just another one. Also, dunno if you're trolling or are simply slow(Actually I'm quite sure I do know considering your nick, but nvm.), but jungle Lulu was an obvious joke on Phreak's part.

Just look at the date of the video, shouldn´t that say enough? Do I have to explain the obvious to you? Most of the older champion spotlights are fucking stupid anyways. My post wasn´t 100% serious but I was hinting that maybe you shouldn´t play champions the way Riot tells you to. It´s like saying regrowth pendant is good on Vayne because it´s a recommended item.

[Deleted]

What i see as problems with Sivir is.

She is an AD carry who is bad at the role AD carry.

Her Q is fine. Nothing wrong with some aoe skill shot. Fine for farming and good dmg.
Her E is BAAAD. Her Q does what this do WAY better. much rather have some passive bonus, anything really.
Her W is AMAZING i will give you that. Really good to have just any kind of safety ability as AD carry.
Her R is a support spell?! So this supposedly AD carry does not have an AD carry ulti? It is a good ulti no doubt. Just does not fit an AD carry.

After her buffs she is a OK hero, but she just doesn't fill her role all that well. If you just happen to need a AD support she would prolly fit that role pretty well.
She might work nicely on a team with no support. Her in the bot with Panth or Poppy. Making one hell of a team.

[NotValidAnymore]

Thats the sad thing, I don't think it was. Phreak is an idiot and a terrible player. His champion spotlights are the joke of the LoL community and I think he even knows it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T0uQyPohV8

[Ellesarr]

She was bad, she got a buff, now she isnt bad.

[Deleted]

She doesn't have any good escape tool, except her ult, if you compare her with other AD's like Corki, Graves, and Ezreal, she is kinda bad, because she doesn't have any proper escape which is very important for a AD carry lategame. Varus and Caitlyn is bad too, sure Varus has great damage, and Caitlyn has good range, but they do not have any good escape tool.

[NotValidAnymore]

Is there a point?

It was more a try to prove that he's not THAT bad, for teh lulz.

On-topic: I'm still a bit confused why everyone's arguing about Sivir being "so bad" when she's still miles ahead of Evelynn. And no one said all AD carries had to have the same kinds of skills.