DH question : DW vs. 2-H

[Fenixdown]

With the fix on Nether Tentacles and the nerf to IAS a reality, I've been wondering if now using hand crossbows would be better overall than using a bow or crossbow.

I tried using the spreadsheet to compare, but I can't figure out how to compare 2-handed weapon use to dual-weilding hand crossbows.

So, my questions are as follows.

- Since hand crossbows counterbalances the nerf to IAS, would using hand crossbows then make crit damage the "necessary" stat, and make IAS simply a nice filler but not a priority?

- What sort of hand crossbow damage range would you need to reach the capacity of a 1k topend crossbow (or, in other words, a 900+ DPS vrossbow)?

- Can hand crossbows, mathematically, be better than a two-handed weapon if you do not have a high IAS Dead Man's Legacy (or appropriate quiver)?

I've been trying to crunch numbers on this, but I'm a bit stumped. I would like to open up a discussion on the subject and see if anyone else has had my idea, and furthermore if they have anything to state if this method would be superior or inferior.

[Riptide]

With the fix on Nether Tentacles and the nerf to IAS a reality, I've been wondering if now using hand crossbows would be better overall than using a bow or crossbow.

I tried using the spreadsheet to compare, but I can't figure out how to compare 2-handed weapon use to dual-weilding hand crossbows.

So, my questions are as follows.

- Since hand crossbows counterbalances the nerf to IAS, would using hand crossbows then make crit damage the "necessary" stat, and make IAS simply a nice filler but not a priority?

- What sort of hand crossbow damage range would you need to reach the capacity of a 1k topend crossbow (or, in other words, a 900+ DPS vrossbow)?

- Can hand crossbows, mathematically, be better than a two-handed weapon if you do not have a high IAS Dead Man's Legacy (or appropriate quiver)?

I've been trying to crunch numbers on this, but I'm a bit stumped. I would like to open up a discussion on the subject and see if anyone else has had my idea, and furthermore if they have anything to state if this method would be superior or inferior.

Well you can use a quiver + a 1 hander if you have a quiver that's better than your 2nd hbow. Basically a hbow can be better because it can get much higher stats(300+) on it and STILL gives you 15ias that a quiver would as long as you dual wield. You also have the same options such as discipline and hatred regen. But you would potentially be trading crit hit and skill dmg for crit dmg.

It is viable but I'm uncertain if it's best but what really matters is if you like the feel of it. I dislike xbows and would never use one, not even a 2005 dmg one pre-ias nerf. (not sure on the max now) But I am always on the lookout for good bows/hbows and would love to try a 50+ crit hbow build with good crit dmg.

Anyway here's a good spreadsheet that will help deciding. http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comme...n_house_is_an/

[Fenixdown]

I found another spreadsheet site that, while the numbers seemed to be a tad bit off, I came to the conclusion that dual wield is viable, but you essentially need nothing short of ilvl 63 godroll weapons to make it work.

[Celidion]

I'm pretty sure nothing would beat 2 dual-wield top-end 1H crossbows with 200% Crit Damage each. 400% Crit Damage simply from weapons just sounds stupid, as well as getting good Dex from each. However, this would cost a lot more than getting a good 2h, so I'd probably stick to 2H if on a budget build.

[Maes]

In terms of viability everything is viable given equal itemization, but given that that won't happen and costs are a limitation getting a 2h is just more affordable and easier to gear for.

[Deleted]

I have a duel wield set, ( both arround 850 dps +90% crit dmg) And i gotta say, it works quite nicely for me, i use either that or my 2H bow, x-bow feels sooo slow.

[FlossDaemon]

I'm rather new to this game (sorry, I am honestly sick of my console and when D3 was announced, I prefer it over the Skyrim...), finished Normal and just started Nightmare as DH (lvl 34). I found that after the 1.0.3 patch, the rare xbow (socket w/Prec ruby for +18 dmg) and I use w/quiver (11% speed, socketed, +40 Dex) only gives me about 550DPS where I found a magical bow (elec dmg +4, socketed with ruby) gave me 581dps. It fires much faster than the xbow. Then I found a pistol (?) that had 67dmg and w/same quiver, bumped me up to 611dps. Unfortunately, I keep dying by the Spider Queen (the little spiders gang on me).
Only thing that bums me out is I ranked up my smith and now need Tomes of training...wtf..Only available in Hell mode? Wish I had reliable partner to team with (barbarian or mage/wd). I do like my DH for her range rage (and comments from the enchanter are goofy).
Tips are appreciated!

[zito]

- Since hand crossbows counterbalances the nerf to IAS, would using hand crossbows then make crit damage the "necessary" stat, and make IAS simply a nice filler but not a priority?

They don't counterbalance the nerf unless you stack IAS on both hand bows because quivers were not effected by the nerf.

---------- Post added 2012-06-21 at 06:03 PM ----------

I'm rather new to this game (sorry, I am honestly sick of my console and when D3 was announced, I prefer it over the Skyrim...), finished Normal and just started Nightmare as DH (lvl 34). I found that after the 1.0.3 patch, the rare xbow (socket w/Prec ruby for +18 dmg) and I use w/quiver (11% speed, socketed, +40 Dex) only gives me about 550DPS where I found a magical bow (elec dmg +4, socketed with ruby) gave me 581dps. It fires much faster than the xbow. Then I found a pistol (?) that had 67dmg and w/same quiver, bumped me up to 611dps. Unfortunately, I keep dying by the Spider Queen (the little spiders gang on me).
Only thing that bums me out is I ranked up my smith and now need Tomes of training...wtf..Only available in Hell mode? Wish I had reliable partner to team with (barbarian or mage/wd). I do like my DH for her range rage (and comments from the enchanter are goofy).
Tips are appreciated!

Don't bother with blacksmith, he is useless.

[SurrealNight]

They don't counterbalance the nerf unless you stack IAS on both hand bows because quivers were not effected by the nerf.

That is a good point, +15+% IAS is going to require some pretty awesome bows to balance it. I'm sure it's possible as IAS/DEX/Crit Chance/Crit Damage can all basically be watered down into a +DPS value (The relationship between IAS = Dex value is rather straight forward) factoring crit chance/damage (which can result in diminishing returns) is more complicated.

Best thing to do would be putting yourself in a DPS sim and then update the stats to 2x hand xbows in your price range and see if you come out ahead (and if that money isn't better spent elsewhere).

[zito]

That is a good point, +15+% IAS is going to require some pretty awesome bows to balance it. I'm sure it's possible as IAS/DEX/Crit Chance/Crit Damage can all basically be watered down into a +DPS value (The relationship between IAS = Dex value is rather straight forward) factoring crit chance/damage (which can result in diminishing returns) is more complicated.

Best thing to do would be putting yourself in a DPS sim and then update the stats to 2x hand xbows in your price range and see if you come out ahead (and if that money isn't better spent elsewhere).

Conclusion: Too damn expensive for a minimal upgrade.

[Riptide]

They don't counterbalance the nerf unless you stack IAS on both hand bows because quivers were not effected by the nerf.

While they don't counterbalance the nerf on ias you do gain 15ias from dual wielding. Which negates most, if not all, of what you had using a quiver. Since they have a higher aps it would help negate the loss of IAS.

The biggest problem with DW is that your mainhand and offhand need to be = or your damage is all over the place. It's not like "oh this would make a good offhand" So it's going to be a lot more expensive to get 2 similar hbows vs a bow/xbow + quiver.